Mentoring Program?

What caused it to flop?

People don't like public criticism... I guess.

If you just want to send your knife to a qualified mentor, and have him tell you that it sucks and why, send it over to me. The only catch is,... I get to keep or sell the knife! LOL

A qualified critic can find flaws in any knife. :)
 
... if you want to send your knife to me and have me tell you it sucks for money,... that's even better! :D

... but I doubt it would help you be a better bladesmith.
 
Why don't you make a knife, critique it yourself, from as many different angles and with as many details as you have the capacity for, and post the results?
 
Well my mentor wont even admit he's my mentor, and half the time i show up at his shop we dont do knives, we b.s. i throw out some recents, he'll expose a flaw...then a thought for the next one, offer a suggestion, ill start to wine, he'll show me some folder that pivots on rubys, blued ti, damasteel, on mother of pearl, ill shut up and rub my sweaty mits all over it, then decide i want to do folders only and that i was ready, voice my thought, and be kicked out immediately.... with some more materials added to my tab....Bottom line is you have to be seeking out the highest of your abilities, affirmation helps, but micrometers, big magnifying glasses, and passion will be make you the maker you wanna be!
 
I keep 1095 steel bars around the shop in case a new guy wants to learn. I learned it for free from y'all. I try to pass it on. I insist the person have health insurance, and know that he is working at his own risk. If he decides he likes it, and I decide he is serious, safe, and has tool experience, then he can work in my shop as an apprentice. I offer a 1:1 trade to apprentices. One hour in my shop working on his own knives with me to help guide him, for one hour working for me. I'm up front that he will likely be sanding during my time. Cleaning is required, and isn't part of the trade. I like my shop clean. Thats what I did with Dylan, and it worked out well. I have a new apprentice now called Dogwood Dan here on the forums. He's my age (38), was a woodworker, and eager to learn. He's here two days a week. I think he has potential.

In addition I really enjoy being a member of the GA Knifemakers Guild. Its an excellent bunch of guys, who are alone all day in a shop, same as me. There isn't much I can teach these guys, but I learn a lot, and offer what I've got when there is something.
 
Tai Goo said:
Why don't you make a knife, critique it yourself, from as many different angles and with as many details as you have the capacity for, and post the results?
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As a newb and on a budget I think I can speak for many new makers here when I say this approach can be inherently flawed. I don't have much of any experience with custom knives or even expensive factoy knives to set as a bench mark for my own self critique. Yes simple things like what a good 600 grit finish looks like is easy to judge, but what level of finish to take a wood handle to can be difficult to figure out if you have never held a good one.

Another misconception, and I stressed this to all my apprentices (in sailing, not knifemaking), practice does not make it perfect. It makes it permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. Without someone to tell us how we are doing every once in a while, progress will be very stagnant as we constantly go in circles.

I think if the supreme artists in this edged world encouraged each other to give advice to new makers every so often(not that many of you don't), I think the percentage of better quality work from new makers would increase.


-Xander
 
I have a hard time critiquing myself, because I see every little flaw no matter how small it is. It doesn't really help that i go over the complete knife with a 10x eye piece either, so things that aren't visible to the naked eye jump out like Mount Everest.
 
Well now, I will talk to you personally, unky, If you are that crituical of your own work you will advance quickly or will decide to stop. I am self taught as are most in my age group - old but still active - I used this as a way to better my work as I went along and still do. It will teach you to continue to work on repeteated problems and to solve them. Now here is where the teacher comes to help and in this forum there are many of the best. Along with your own approaches the forum can and will provide you with answers. Your willingness to discuss them will also help to make you realize the road can be very long and difficult for some of us. I myself am a very slow learner but I know with continued effort realistic success as we individually may hope for can be had. It's great to have direction in all aspects of making a knife but you must be prepared to accept it. If you insure the assistance is put to use, you will see the results far sooner than choosing just what you find comfortable. Frank
 
I didn't have a mentor as such and consider myself, self taught. I did make a lot of friends in the business who where older and/or more experienced. However, most of the advice I got was really geared more towards the business side of it. I had to learn to critique my own knives. I had a lot of peers and associates to exchange ideas with, which helped a lot.

Finish is really just a small part of it and there isn't a right or wrong approach to finishing.

In order to critique yourself you have to look at it from multiple angles,... concept, design, originality, heat treating, performance etc. You have to have some kind of "taste" for knives and know what you like, what you don't like, what you are trying to accomplish and things like that.

It's the ongoing personal decision making and problem solving process, which you will have to learn to do yourself. Having some knives critiqued by an experienced maker/makers, might help a little in the beginning, but in the long run it’s really something you need to do yourself. You tend to get the most "honest" critiques from yourself. I suppose honesty is the real key to it.

It doesn’t take an experienced knifemaker to give a good critique. Some of the best critiques I ever received were from non makers. My wife can spot a flaw a mile away and she's never made a knife.

If you have an opinion, you are qualified enough. That's all anyone has,... an opinion.
 
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It sounds like there might be a few who could benefit from a little help with self critique.

A good critique should bring up both positive and negative aspects of the knife, not just one or the other. I also think a good critique should not be emotional. Try to look at it from a detached perspective.

Let me try and put it down as a step by step method for self improvement.

After you’ve made the knife, looked it over, pondered, contemplated and tested it out some. First, try to find some things that you like about it. You can always find something good to say as well as not so good. Find as many good things as you can. Next, look for things are O.K., but that you could have done better. Last, look at the things that you really don’t like about it. Make a mental note of it all, or write it down if you think it will help. Now,… make another knife similar to the last one, but keep in mind your critique and try to improve with each knife. After you do this a while you’ll get better at it, gain some momentum and direction, and you should start to show some improvement gradually. If you reach a dead end, try something completely different and start again. You should learn a lot in the process and be honing your skills at the same time.
 
Something to add to that for me, would be to walk away from it for a day or two before doing the critique. I tend to focus on the things that I worked so hard to correct, like a scratch, that I still see it after it is gone. If I put a blade down for 12-24 hours after I have finished it, it sort of resets my mind so I can look at it with fresh eyes. The longest I have put something aside for is 6 months and I hadn't even finished it yet. I just didn't like the way it was going but I wasn't ready to scrap it so I oiled it and stuck it in the bottom of my tool box and forgot about it. After my move I was looking for something to do, we were in the middle of the mail strike so I couldn't order steel when I remembered it. Pull it out of the tool box and I could see right away what it was I didn't like about it, and how to fix it.
 
That's a good idea. You need to try and detach yourself from it a little. Maybe even critique the same knife several times over a period of time and see if it changes.

After you've done it a while, as sort of homework, then go out and look for a second, third opinion, etc. If the secondary opinions just keep reinforcing what you already thought, it's a good indication you are on the right track. If you get some opinions that are either all good or all bad, just file them in, and factor them in, on their perspective sides.
 
The best thing about secondary opinions, is that sometimes they’ll look at it from an angle you hadn’t thought of yet, or see a new aspect to your work that you hadn't thought of yet... Definitely make a note of that and start applying it to your "self mentoring program". :)
 
Fiddleback said:
I keep 1095 steel bars around the shop in case a new guy wants to learn. I learned it for free from y'all. I try to pass it on. I insist the person have health insurance, and know that he is working at his own risk. If he decides he likes it, and I decide he is serious, safe, and has tool experience, then he can work in my shop as an apprentice. I offer a 1:1 trade to apprentices. One hour in my shop working on his own knives with me to help guide him, for one hour working for me. I'm up front that he will likely be sanding during my time. Cleaning is required, and isn't part of the trade. I like my shop clean. Thats what I did with Dylan, and it worked out well. I have a new apprentice now called Dogwood Dan here on the forums. He's my age (38), was a woodworker, and eager to learn. He's here two days a week. I think he has potential.

In addition I really enjoy being a member of the GA Knifemakers Guild. Its an excellent bunch of guys, who are alone all day in a shop, same as me. There isn't much I can teach these guys, but I learn a lot, and offer what I've got when there is something.
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This is the exact situation I have been looking for here in Western Washington. I've apprenticed twice in my life, once in my late teens as a brick layer and once in my mid 20's at a tattoo shop. Both times I worked my ass off for over a year before I was ever given an opportunity to get hands on. I did the dirty work. As a hod carrier, I knew the opportunity was there for me to learn a trade if I did the hard work. For anyone whose ever been around the masonry profession, a hod carrier is about the worst job you can hold in the 100+ degree summers in Las Vegas. I did it all and I did it all with a smile and a "yes sir" and I did learn to become one of the best mason's he had ever employed. I used that experience as motivation to get into construction management and out of the summer sun. :D

Having a man give you his time to teach you a trade and pass down his knowledge of a trade is a true gift. I joke around with Nick about coming to his house and picking up dog crap and washing his car, but in all honesty, it's really not a joke. My ego is not too big to do the dirty work to receive the knowledge. I have nothing but respect for those who came before and what they've accomplished. Fred is a great example. He is honest with me when I post new completed knives. He points out the good and he points out the bad. He sent me a PM asking me if I was taking any of his comments personal and getting upset. I immediately responded back and told him not one bit. I want to learn and I want to do good work. I want to make the profession proud. If I sit around and get sensitive every time someone points out a flaw, I'll never progress.

I applaud all of you who teach what you know to those who are willing to shut up and learn. I've been amazed at how much knowledge is shared in this forum.

-Michael
 
unky_gumbi said:
I would love to have one of my knives picked apart by a maker I respect and told what I did right and what I did wrong even if I did most of it wrong. It is a service I would be willing to pay a reasonable price for if it was going to help me be a better maker.

My whole trip in to knife making wasn't planned. I made my first knife just to see if I could, and I figured while I was at it why not make two, the steel was cheap enough (5160) and the tool investment was next to nothing because I used basic hand tools. Two years later I am still doing it despite having chronic tennis elbow, dropped more money than I planned on a proper belt grinder, and plan my housing around setting up a shop. I really think that the steel dust is addictive:o
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Unky,
I like you were after some credible feedback from makers and users of edged tools. In Australia our Knife making community is very small, maybe 5 full time makers and maybe under 100 hobbyist knife makers. I am newish to the craft and wanted some feedback on my knives. I have a couple of guys with in a few hours of me and that's about it(I do live in the most isolated large city in the world!).

I am getting some tips from JS Bruce Barnett but he is about 2 hours away by car. So I put a post up and asked the fellas on Australian blade forums if they would like to try my knives for free in return for some feedback. I got a list of 10 knife makers and users and am in the middle of a "pass-around". It cost me postage out to the first person, then they pay for postage on to the next and so on. I have had some great and honest feedback so far. So I will get the knives back in a few months, the guys will have been able to use them and see how they perform, give me a bit of feedback on what I need to do to improve and I can go from there.

Sorry for the long winded post mate. Hope it helps

Matt
 
By the way unky up until a couple of years ago I had a mentor. He was a knife collector who knew how kives of all kinds were made but had never made one himself. He went to being just a friend instead of mentor-friend when he decided he couldn't help me any more. Frank
 
Right now I get all of my guidance right here on BFC. If I had decided to start this when I was younger I don't know where that would have come from, because it was before the internet. Good home computers weren't even around at that time:eek:
 
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