Micarta texture

[JustinGreen]

So first post but have a micarta question (I did do some searching here, but didn't find the answer).

I am brand new to knife making and ordered a good deal of micarta for some knives I'm making. I own four or five micarta handled knives and it seems like the texture on the scales is from the fabric in the micarta - i.e. the texture matches where the threads are in the material. The micarta I received is all super slick, which makes sense of course. The texture on the knives I own does not seem to be simply from rough sanding, though I could be mistaken. When you sand the micarta, can you get the texture to match the fabric by applying an oil or something, similar to raising the grain in wood before final sanding? I ordered some scales for a Bugout and I can track the texture with my fingernail and it matches the threads. How do you do that? Or are these micartas made without impregnating the top layer with so much epoxy?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Grind into it to see what you have.
There is canvas, linen, ad paper phenolic. All have different textures.

 

[ScarFoot]

I’m not sure if it’s true but I’ve heard some of the texture on newer factory knives with micarta scales is achieved by sandblasting. It supposedly removes the resin without damaging the fabric. I’ve heard of some makers doing it but I just can’t speak for factories. I don’t have a blaster or I’d try it to see what happens.
The different fabric materials will have slightly different textures as mentioned above but all still feel relatively smooth at the end of the day once they’re sanded past about 220 grit.

 

[JustinGreen]

I’m not sure if it’s true but I’ve heard some of the texture on newer factory knives with micarta scales is achieved by sandblasting. It supposedly removes the resin without damaging the fabric. I’ve heard of some makers doing it but I just can’t speak for factories. I don’t have a blaster or I’d try it to see what happens.
The different fabric materials will have slightly different textures as mentioned above but all still feel relatively smooth at the end of the day once they’re sanded past about 220 grit.

I've even considered that perhaps the factories making the micarta have textured plates they use to press the micarta in. Which would make sense, except a Benchmade scale set I bought has the same texture in the finger well area that's been chamfered somewhat. Sandblasting may be the answer there. Thank you, sir! I thought maybe once you exposed some of the fibers through sanding and wet them, that they would expand and provide the texture.

 

[Seedy Lot]

I feel a difference with some of the micarta is the ratio of resin to fabric. Cheaper micarta I have used felt slick, to much resin and not enough fabric.

I have always been impressed with Ultrex in both linen and canvas but not their burlap. Current Composites has a really nice linen.

 

[JustinGreen]

I feel a difference with some of the micarta is the ratio of resin to fabric. Cheaper micarta I have used felt slick, to much resin and not enough fabric.

I have always been impressed with Ultrex in both linen and canvas but not their burlap. Current Composites has a really nice linen.

That's a good point, too. Although, with the price of epoxy for the small makers, the fabric seems cheaper. Maybe I don't have the math correct. I ordered a gallon of the West epoxy as I have old jeans and a lot of blue plaid shirts that are worn out that I am going to make into micarta and want the texture to come through, if possible. But it just seems if you have enough epoxy, they're all going to come out slick unless your press/mold has a texture.

 

[ea42]

Micarta is always slick on top, you have to sand through the top layer of phenolic to reach the threads. Epoxy based micarta's are softer than phenolics. Rounding the handles also helps, you don't want them perfectly flat. Paper micarta would be super smooth, then linen, canvas and burlap which is the roughest. sanding at around 400 or 600 will bring out the texture as it feathers the threads a bit. If you like it rougher go with 320 and see how you like it, you can always go finer.

Eric

 

[ScarFoot]

I've even considered that perhaps the factories making the micarta have textured plates they use to press the micarta in. Which would make sense, except a Benchmade scale set I bought has the same texture in the finger well area that's been chamfered somewhat. Sandblasting may be the answer there. Thank you, sir! I thought maybe once you exposed some of the fibers through sanding and wet them, that they would expand and provide the texture.

I was reading a discussion about the micarta texture Spyderco achieves on the “Crucarta” PM2 and similar knives on another forum and several makers thought they probably sandblasted them. They said they achieved similar texture/finish that way. That’s all secondhand info so take it for what it’s worth.
Some of the texture could come also come from how it is machined as well.

The fiber/fabric doesn’t really swell when it gets wet even when rough sanded in my experience. Even though it is “exposed” the strands are still covered in whatever resin/epoxy the manufacturer used to make the micarta.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Make a note of the direction of the pieces as you cut them out. If you switch one 180° they may/will look different. Same goes for top and bottom of the slabs. Don't flip t]one over or the look may/will be off on one side. Most Micarta I get is noticeably different looking on the top and bottom, but it does not show much or any difference between L-R and R-L orientation. If cutting scales from large sheets ALWAYS cut in one direction and mark it. Trying to get an extra scale from the scraps may end up not being an economy.
I draw an arrow on the back of every scale as I mark them on the slab with a white paint marker. I make sure they are all marked before going to the band saw. Another trick is to put a number or letter on the back of each scale as you draw them on the slab. Mark each blade with the corresponding number/letter. If you make multiples at one time, this makes it much easier to keep scales matched together and with the right blade . Many of the new laminates are made to end up with a textured look after sanding and buffing. Other tricks to get more texture are using a 3-M surface conditioning belt on them and then buffing.

 

[Seedy Lot]

That's a good point, too. Although, with the price of epoxy for the small makers, the fabric seems cheaper. Maybe I don't have the math correct. I ordered a gallon of the West epoxy as I have old jeans and a lot of blue plaid shirts that are worn out that I am going to make into micarta and want the texture to come through, if possible. But it just seems if you have enough epoxy, they're all going to come out slick unless your press/mold has a texture.

Micarta is a phenolic resin layup, not epoxy. Don't expect the same characteristics from mycarta...

 

[JustinGreen]

Make a note of the direction of the pieces as you cut them out. If you switch one 180° they may/will look different. Same goes for top and bottom of the slabs. Don't flip t]one over or the look may/will be off on one side. Most Micarta I get is noticeably different looking on the top and bottom, but it does not show much or any difference between L-R and R-L orientation. If cutting scales from large sheets ALWAYS cut in one direction and mark it. Trying to get an extra scale from the scraps may end up not being an economy.
I draw an arrow on the back of every scale as I mark them on the slab with a white paint marker. I make sure they are all marked before going to the band saw. Another trick is to put a number or letter on the back of each scale as you draw them on the slab. Mark each blade with the corresponding number/letter. If you make multiples at one time, this makes it much easier to keep scales matched together and with the right blade . Many of the new laminates are made to end up with a textured look after sanding and buffing. Other tricks to get more texture are using a 3-M surface conditioning belt on them and then buffing.

Thanks a bunch for the tips. My buddy got me into this hobby/mess as he's more of a forger and I'm a stock removal type since I don't have a forge. He did tell me - mark them with an R & L no matter how perfect you think you have them. So I did.

The issue is, on the knife I have roughed in, I went ahead and attached the scales and contoured the edges by hand sanding with 220 and they feel slick. No texture whatsoever. Which prompted my post.

 

[JustinGreen]

Micarta is a phenolic resin layup, not epoxy. Don't expect the same characteristics from mycarta...

I was wondering if the type of resin affected the finish, like maybe the resin sanded slightly faster than the resin-impregnated material, leaving the texture. But, I think that is wishful thinking.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Ultrex, G-10, and some of the other laminates will have a different texture than traditional Micarta. Problem is that many people use the term "micarta" for every laminate.

I have been playing with the many color combinations of Ultrex Sure Touch and like the grippier feel. It is G-10 layered with a rubber compound. Give it a btry.

 

[JustinGreen]

Ultrex, G-10, and some of the other laminates will have a different texture than traditional Micarta. Problem is that many people use the term "micarta" for every laminate.

I have been playing with the many color combinations of Ultrex Sure Touch and like the grippier feel. It is G-10 layered with a rubber compound. Give it a btry.

True. I'm generally talking about the resin-soaked cloth textile versions, not the G10 or other composites.

 

[ScarFoot]

Norplex (they own Micarta now) claims Ultrex Micarta is made using the same method as the original Westinghouse product but I’m not sure about the exact resins and fabrics. If memory serves, the original micarta was essentially Bakelite with cotton fabric in it. I believe the Ultrex Micarta (knife handle) fabrics are all cotton. Ultrex products are essentially made for aesthetic uses.

If I had to pick a fabric to try to get texture with it would probably be canvas. Paper and burlap (oddly enough) can be finished about as smooth as glass. The weave in linen is a little too small to give much texture in my experience.

In industry, the name has been thrown around loosely and multiple “micartas” have been developed with compositions selected for their specific purposes.

 

[JustinGreen]

Norplex (they own Micarta now) claims Ultrex Micarta is made using the same method as the original Westinghouse product but I’m not sure about the exact resins and fabrics. If memory serves, the original micarta was essentially Bakelite with cotton fabric in it. I believe the Ultrex Micarta (knife handle) fabrics are all cotton. Ultrex products are essentially made for aesthetic uses.

If I had to pick a fabric to try to get texture with it would probably be canvas. Paper and burlap (oddly enough) can be finished about as smooth as glass. The weave in linen is a little too small to give much texture in my experience.

In industry, the name has been thrown around loosely and multiple “micartas” have been developed with compositions selected for their specific purposes.

True, I've heard it referred to as "mycarta" instead of micarta, and I get that. I've ordered enough epoxy to make a few sets of 1/8"+ thick out of plaid shirts with a slight construction paper backing to make a consolidated solid blue and blue/white plaid cotton patten. This is purely an experiment, but will be pressing it between plates with kissers so I get fairly exact thicknesses.

 

[Seedy Lot]

Norplex (they own Micarta now) claims Ultrex Micarta is made using the same method as the original Westinghouse product but I’m not sure about the exact resins and fabrics. If memory serves, the original micarta was essentially Bakelite with cotton fabric in it. I believe the Ultrex Micarta (knife handle) fabrics are all cotton. Ultrex products are essentially made for aesthetic uses.

If I had to pick a fabric to try to get texture with it would probably be canvas. Paper and burlap (oddly enough) can be finished about as smooth as glass. The weave in linen is a little too small to give much texture in my experience.

In industry, the name has been thrown around loosely and multiple “micartas” have been developed with compositions selected for their specific purposes.

I am really liking the Ultrex linen right now, I find it to have better grip than canvas when wet.

 

[Taz]

I find the linen from Current has really nice texture to it and often feels grippier than canvas? I tried some Canvas from Ultrex and it was definitely much smoother than Current's canvas at the same sandpaper grit. I have some green/black linen from Current and at 320, it was super grippy. It's almost like how very fine sandpaper is still grippy feeling on skin? Like 1000 and 2000 grit sandpaper feel soft sticky verses rough sticky if that makes sense? Even Burlap I have used from both Current and Norplex feels smoother than the linen. When I made my own burlap scales, I found that more pressure led to more air bubbles, so I am guessing they use less pressure and keep more epoxy in the burlap mixtures?

Stacy, try the AmeraGrip from Current Composites. It is similar to the SureTouch stuff, but the colors are more vibrant and stay brighter! They use more layers of fiberglass between the rubber layers, so it's a bit stiffer, lighter and more colorful. The Suretouch is either 1x1 or 2x1 layers fiberglass to rubber, so the 2x1 layers are a bit brighter, but the dark rubber tends to muddy the colors and make them more muted. Ameragrip stays MUCH brighter, even near the black rubber!

The green is actually Day Glo from one of Currents first batches and the pink is from an early batch as well. The Day Glow ppears greenish/yellow because the black rubber darkens the material a bit. The Pink stays a nice, vibrant pink! They have even tweaked the recipe to the Ameragrip since these pieces were made and the newer stuff seems to be brighter, especially with the lighter colors!

Ameragrip:


And their orange:


Versus the SureTouch from Norplex Orange.. 2x1 on the top and 1x1 on the bottom, Tri Color Vintage Canvas from Current in the middle:

 

[JustinGreen]

Those are really nice, Taz!

 

[ScarFoot]

I am really liking the Ultrex linen right now, I find it to have better grip than canvas when wet.

I like linen in general then burlap just because of the finished look. I’ve been looking for ways to get better grip but still a decent finish and haven’t been happy with the looks of anything under 400 grit yet but I’m still experimenting. I want to try sandblasting at some point. Several makers on another forum said they sandblasted canvas micarta on some of their outdoor/hard use knives to get a grippy texture (specifically similar to spydercos “crucarta” knives) but I can’t speak for their results. They claim it takes the resin but leaves the fabric in tact so it gives the texture the op seemed to be talking about in his first post. It seems like it might work with the right blasting media. Certainly some of what he describes can be achieved by sanding at different grits with different backing material. I’ve been messing with different leather and rubber backers on some of my sanding blocks and that has an effect on the finish as well. Just have to watch that your pins don’t get proud before you’re done.