microscopic image VG-10

annr

annr

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I am considering purchasing a Centofante 4 ~ C66BK-4 and am wondering if anyone has /or can direct me to a microscopic image (electron microscope) of its steel: VG-10.
didn't see one on the Sypderco webiste
 
This is why I am glad I am not Sal. It is bad enough that people come on here and nit pick every little thing about Spyderco knives, now people want microscopic images of the blade steel!

VG-10 is one good steel. I don't have any electron images to prove this (if that would prove anything) but I have used it on many knives and it is one of the best SS for all around use. It seems to keep an edge as well as any SS but is still pretty easy to sharpen. I have not tried the ZDP-189 yet but I have a Jess Horn on the way. As for S30-v, 440v and BG-42, I don't really see them being any better than VG-10. VG-10 is the first steel that I found that was clearly better than ATS-34 or 440c. I'm happy with VG-10 and I don't need anything "better". ZDP-189 should be fun though.
 
I think that this looks like a terrific knife:) and am very close to buying it. The reason I ask is that I own another knife made of "mystery steel" whose maker claims that his knife performs better than most or all top-notch steels on the market for a given application. He charges $75-80/ knife and I don't know if his claims are true or not. I've tried his knives and I'm not so sure. This maker "proves" his case with microscopic images which I have no way to challenge. I guess I just have to buy the Spyderco and road test it.

I'm glad to hear good things about it tho!
 
Well I'm sorry "annr" I tend to agree with "kgriggs" on this one. What on earth would a photo from an electron micrograph prove positive or negative about VG-10 blade steel :confused: ? Unless you have Phd. Doctorate in Metallurgy I don't imagine one out of a million lay people would even know what to begin to look for anyway :confused:.

I personally have used many VG-10 blades in Spyderco, Al Mar and a couple of other brands of knives. And I can personally tell you that VG-10 is a premium blade steel and performs well. You would have more substantial proof by merely using it up against another blade steel for a comparison.

I can see the primary and secondary profiles of a well sharpened blade by mere use of my 8X x 17X watchmaker's loupe. Other than the abrasion marks the steel would display I really don't know what else that would prove. But if I'm out in left field on this one and there really is a bonafide reason you want this Microscopic picture then please do fill us in :)
 
Even as a metallurgist I don't ask for electron microscope photos [photomicrographs] of the steel .Assuming proper heat treatment ,a bit of use will tell you a lot more than a microscope as far as performance.And even if you saw the photos would you know what they mean ??... There are photomicrographs of Benelli shotgun barrels with and without cryo, on their website.The photos are complete BS, they cannot be what they claim.Would you know that they are BS ?...Benelli shotguns are great , I own one. VG-10 is a fine blade steel, one of the better stainless steels for blades.I own a Fallkniven S-1 and know it performs very well .I also have Shun kitchen knives of VG-10 ,I'm very happy with them !!
 
JD Spydo said:
Well I'm sorry "annr" I tend to agree with "kgriggs" on this one. What on earth would a photo from an electron micrograph prove positive or negative about VG-10 blade steel :confused: ? Unless you have Phd. Doctorate in Metallurgy I don't imagine one out of a million lay people would even know what to begin to look for anyway :confused:.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. What's a layman to think? The maker is an engineer and he writes that he uses "unique heat treatments" .:confused: I can't see where he lists the Rockwell hardness of his blades but he has found that "very good machine steel with hardness of Rockwell C59" variiety is excellent for many applications but just doesn't work as well in certain settings. So I ask myself is he talking about V-10??

JD Spydo said:
You would have more substantial proof by merely using it up against another blade steel for a comparison.
Click to expand...
I think that this is what it will boil down to.
JD Spydo said:
But if I'm out in left field on this one and there really is a bonafide reason you want this Microscopic picture then please do fill us in :)
Click to expand...

This knifemaker's premise is that the Rockwell C59 has a more granular pattern and that when the grains get knocked out during use the knife becomes dull and wil not get sharpened to a fine enough grit. He has pictures.:confused:

On the otherhand he illustrates, with photos, that his knife has a microstructure such that the carbides "are small, round and evenly distrubuted" giving it the potential to to take a very fine burr.

BTW these knives are not super- easy to sharpen - but work fairly well. Always looking for that edge.:)

I thought that maybe I could test his assertions by making a comparison to what I see in his book. Also, his book came out in '94 so what may have been true then is no longer the case.:confused:
 
mete said:
Even as a metallurgist I don't ask for electron microscope photos [photomicrographs] of the steel
Click to expand...

Yeah. I can assure that this was the first time I ran into this and it just got me thinking...wondering...
 
I would say this manufacturer is trying to sound complex about things...you don't need a lightsaber here. You really only need two things:
ANY Spyderco but especially G10 Handle - VG 10 blade esque like the military/paramilli, police, civilian, any midrange or high range spyderco.
A Tri-Angle sharpmaker. This is the best sharpener on the market unless you are PRO with becnhstones, and nearly anybody can put a razor shaving edge on a spyderco, or any knife for that matter, with one. It even makes sharpening serrations cake!
You don't need pictures to prove spyderco's quality, just read the ravings of forums members here. they are the BEST knives for the price, period. If a $120 knife that will last for years and can easily be sharpened to shaving sharp (which really only needs to be done about every month or so with medium use) is not what you need, I suggest ordering some scalpels :)

Welcome to the Spydie Sickness!

SS
 
StarStorm said:
you don't need a lightsaber here.
Click to expand...

You never know!;)

StarStorm said:
This is the best sharpener on the market unless you are PRO with becnhstones, and nearly anybody can put a razor shaving edge on a spyderco, or any knife for that matter, with one.
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I have a busload of benchstones and more, but don't make any claims, nah, I can get the job done most of the time.:D This is what really got me wondering: I use the Sypderco fine and ultra-fine ceramics to sharpen this propietary steel, so maybe there was a difference without a distinction?

StarStorm said:
Welcome to the Spydie Sickness!
Click to expand...

Ouch, was that my wallet or my mind?:eek:
 
Hey, mon!!

You don need elctropolishmicrograffingpicture for test steel. No mystery steel beat Rosta-Frei steel, mon. Mystery Metal's got nothin' on Marley Metal aka Rosta-Frei steel!! Don take ma word tho:

rostafrei said:
Rosta-Frei Steel is #1!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ja Mon!

Many times I have been to the forums and always I see everyone say "this steel is better" or "that steel is the best" and every time it just make me laugh. Many people say Japanese steel is good and other people say American steel is better. It is time that the world once and for all should know the truth: The best steel in the world is from Jamaica and it is called Rosta-Frei Steel.

Now I know you going to say " yeah, yeah, sure,sure, what makes this Rosta-Frei Steel so much better than the rest?" Well I tell you….

First of all, EVERYONE in Jamaica use this steel in their blades. Everyone say that Rosta-Frei is #1! We use Rosta-Frei Steel to cut our vegetables and fruits. We use Rosta-Frei Steel to cut our meat. We use Rosta-Frei Steel to cut our herbs in the fields. Ja Mon!

The reason why our steel cut so good is in the heat treat. We use special herbal process to treat our steel. What kind of herbs? I cannot tell you or it will not be a secret!

Everyday I try to give thanks. Thank you and God Bless!

Many famous maker now come to Jamaica for their steel. Here is small sample:

Chris Reeve came to our island for vacation last year. I show him one of my knives. He say "This folder is junk." Then he look closely at the blade. He could not believe it, mon. Now he say Rosta-Frei is #1!

Jerry Busse call me last spring. He say "Send me some of this Rosta-Frei Steel so I can compare it to my INFI." I send him some. Two week later he call me back. He cannot believe. This steel is better than INFI. Now he want more to make his new folding knives. Jerry Busse say Rosta-Frei is #1!

Tom Mayo was here last week. He came all the from Hawaii to see our Rosta-Frei Steel. He bring back enough to make a special new folder. He call it the TNTHC! Ja Mon! Believe it when Tom Mayo tell you that Rosta-Frei is #1. Now Tom want to make Rosta-Frei in Hawaii with his own special herbs!

The Seki City makers come to us for all their steel now. They want knife that will cut through tin can and then slice tomato. This knife never need sharpening. They call it the Ganja-su. Japanese now say Rosta-Frei is #1!

Cliff Stamp try to break Rosta-Frei Steel blade in test. Everytime he bend it the Rost-Frei just spring back like tall weed in the wind. He try to cut 1" hemp rope with this blade. He cut and cut and cut until his arm is sore. Finally after 1 million cuts Cliff Stamp give up. "This Rosta-Frei Steel is pretty good stuff," he say, "And it never seems to need sharpening probably due to the transverse grind on the lateral axis blah blah blah." That's pretty big compliment coming from Cliff!
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They won send you no "lectron-picture tho - that way herb remain secret ja, mon!? See Rostafrei Steel fo mo info bruddah......:D


Wonder what Mystery Steel man has been smokin'?? His name doesn't happen to be John Lagos Goncz does it?????:eek:



:D
J
 
Also, his book came out in '94 so what may have been true then is no longer the case
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What is the guys name? I wonder if this is the book Cliff Stamp has referred to on occasions? Was it Landes, or is that the wrong name?

Rat, you probably know what I'm talking about, eh? Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
What is the guys name? I wonder if this is the book Cliff Stamp has referred to on occasions? Was it Landes, or is that the wrong name?
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Gotta think about this I don't want to start a war. I can tell you that he has not been mentioned by name on this forum and it is not Roman.
 
"Sounds to me like the maker is full of more than just "mystery steel""

That is what I was thinking. Honest makers tell you straight up what steel they used and what it was hardened to. If there is a "mystery", it is probably a mystery to the guy who made it because he isn't sure what he is doing. I have spoken to couple of custom knife makers and they have never hidden any infomation about the blade steel. If you ask, they often will proudly tell you what steel they used and how they treated it.

I would be wary of spending my hard earned cash on a knife that I had to buy first to find out if it was decent or not. Spyderco, tells you what blade steel they use and it is often some of the best steel you can get. That is what is nice about Spyderco, they always have offered premium steel in afordable knives. It was with Spyderco that I first found out there really was a better steel than ATS-34 or 440C. Until I got a VG-10 C54 Calypso and saw how it preformed, I thought that ATS-34 was still about the best you could get. ATS-34 is good steel but VG-10 is better and you will be able to notice the difference.

When in doubt, buy a Spyderco. LOL!
 
annr said:
I am considering purchasing a Centofante 4 ~ C66BK-4 and am wondering if anyone has /or can direct me to a microscopic image (electron microscope) of its steel: VG-10.
didn't see one on the Sypderco webiste
Click to expand...


I say go Cento IV! It's one of my favorites, works very well for me.:)

No micro imaging here, but heres some pics I took awhile back
http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25061

I feel this knfe doesn't often get the love it should, but it has it's followers.;)
 
I forgot to mention, VG-10 IS dang good steel, IMHO. It holds an edge, and is easy to maintain, which makes it a winner in my book. Don't get me wrong, I really like the way S30v bites, I've just grown to appreciate VG-10's 'easy factor".;)
 
Hi Axlis13,
Thanks for the pics. What do you use the knife for?
I wanted more info after a BF member suggested that this might be a good alternative to the hollow-grind knives I use. I would describe my application as micro-whittling. When I work I use light pressure, scraping and scratching in thin layers typically in areas less than 1mm square on very soft material. It would feel about like holding a pencil in one hand and scraping off the paint, the layers of wood, and the lead from the top 1.5" so carefully that it could take you about an hour.

Can you hold/use the knife with light finger pressure? Do the blade and handle seem balanced -so no "gripping" necessary?
 
annr said:
Hi Axlis13,
Thanks for the pics. What do you use the knife for?
I wanted more info after a BF member suggested that this might be a good alternative to the hollow-grind knives I use. I would describe my application as micro-whittling. When I work I use light pressure, scraping and scratching in thin layers typically in areas less than 1mm square on very soft material. It would feel about like holding a pencil in one hand and scraping off the paint, the layers of wood, and the lead from the top 1.5" so carefully that it could take you about an hour.

Can you hold/use the knife with light finger pressure? Do the blade and handle seem balanced -so no "gripping" necessary?
Click to expand...


I use the knife for general utility, and food prep on the go, and the Wharncliffe blade has a lot of versatility. The Cento IV is a hollow ground blade, but it's thiness lends itself to slicing VERY well. It's a well balenced light weight knife, and the handle is pretty plain and straight forward, so I guess you could get the light grip you are looking for.

Sorry if I'm not being too much help, what kind of work do you do?
 
I make reeds for the oboe and spend a fair portion of each session maintaining the edges on my knives. It think that the knife suggestion was offered to help me get a better well just better, better! edge.

I hopped on flicker and found a few photos that show a typical knife and the size of the piece and type of detail that goes into the shaving.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkroom_light/96645532/
knife-representative

http://www.flickr.com/photos/quack-a-duck/313985553/
reeds and byproduct- even enlarged you can see the tiny shavings

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mahlersoboes/14233370/
reed show the variation in thicknesses- Judging by this photo, this maker may not have had a sharp enough edge

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stonelucifer/106700616/
tube cane- matieral in its 'raw' form

It is possible that I could use the knife for other things, or even the rough work..
 
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