Microtech Mini Socom vs REKAT CArnivour Cub?

[Joe Talmadge]

Originally posted by jmxcpter
This brings up another topic: is the extra complexity of an Axis lock or rolling lock worth it as compared to a back lock, frame lock or liner lock which seem to be mechanically less complex systems (fewer small parts to lose/break)?

jmx

Thanks for giving me an excuse to perform my latest rant I think this issue of complexity deserves a second look.

The liner lock appears to be very simple, and to oversimplify: cut an angle in the blade tang, slit the liner, bend the liner, and voila! You now have a lock that may or may not be reliable. Making a good liner lock requires a whole lot more than what I described above. A key to making a reliable liner lock is to understand that the geometry between the liner and blade tang is very critical, and more critical than in some other kinds of lock solutions. So, in summary: the lock is extremely susceptible to geometry changes. Now, you're using your knife. Does the liner move across the tang as you use the knife and as the liner wears? Yes. Does the washers compress? Yes. Does the frame flex? Yes. Keep asking questions, and you'll keep seeing potential geometry changes -- in a lock that critically relies on a high-tolerance mating! So we not only have a difficult geometry problem to solve, but the problem is actually dynamic. As the knife itself flexes and wears, the geometry has to stay perfect all the way through!

Now take the axis lock. It does have some added complexity. The main complexity is the addition of springs and miling out a pocket in the scales. Are springs and milling technology reasonably well-understood? Yah! And interestingly enough, the axis lock appears to be much less susceptible to geometry changes than the liner lock. So we've added some extra complexity, but we've greatly simplified the problem. This is a tradeoff that has turned out to pay off in spades. The ostensible simplicity of the liner lock is, in my opinion, not actually any kind of advantage at all, given the difficulty of the problem it is trying to solve.

Integral (frame) locks are susceptible to some of the same problems as liner locks, but the fact that your hand actually reinforces the lockup instead of possibly compromising it ala the liner lock, results in an increase in reliability that puts it in a completely different class than the liner lock, IMO. In fact, I personally would hever pick any liner lock over an axis lock, but I would (and do) choose freely between my integral and axis locks for everyday carry. These lock types have advantages and disadvantages versus each other, and I have a high opinion of both, when well-done. The main advantage of the integral lock, in my opinion, is that it really delivers on the simplicity that the liner lock only appears to deliver on. That is, by using the hand to reinforce the lock against minor geometry changes, you have simplified the geometry problem greatly ... simple problem, simple solution, very nice approach overall.


Just my opinion, as always ...

Joe

 

[Shmackey]

I second Joe's opinion on complexity. The linerlock may have fewer parts than the Axis lock, but it's actually quite a bit more complex and the tolerances are much tighter. Once you go outside of those tolerances--which can happen over time, as you use the knife, even if it started out great--you need to be concerned about your fingers.

And if I can add my own favorite rant here, the Axis lock, along with the lockback, uses the direct force of its spring to keep the blade inside the handle (when it's closed) over a safe arc. The linerlock keeps the blade in the handle almost as an afterthought; once that ball detent is passed (maybe 3 degrees of movement), the blade is flapping around--maybe in your pocket.

This flapping is great for "smooth" (read: easy) opening, as compared to a lockback, but I consider it nothing less than a safety shortcoming. The Axis, on the other hand, is smooth as butter, and actually easier to open than a linerlock with a good ball detent. And it keeps the blade in the handle when you want it there--what a concept.

 

[medusaoblongata]

Originally posted by jmxcpter
While I have only had one frame lock knife (CRKT KISS) and had a bad experience, perhaps I am judging frame locks too harshly. The only knife I ever had colapse on my fingers was a frame lock (and I wasn't misusing the knife).

Keep in mind that the the CRKT Kiss isn't a real frame lock. The Kiss has only one scale, making accidental disengagement very easy. IMO it's a very unsafe design. A regular frame lock has two scales and is much more reliable than a liner lock. It is still possible to disengage a framelock by torquing, but it's not very likely.

Of your two choices I'd probably go with the Cub. I'm happy with mine, even though I did disassemble and polish it, and it's still not very smooth. REKATs are pretty much rugged knives all around. If you do get a REKAT, test it thoroughly and frequently. My Sifu held up fine, passed all tests, etc., for months, and closed on my finger last week

The 705 is a great little knife, but it really is little. It's much smaller in the hand than the Cub.

You might want to look at BM's 73X & 94X series for mid-size tough knives. IMO the Axis lock is definitely the best out there.

Remember to check the For Sale forums here, where you'll be able to find any of these knives for under $100, though it may take a little patience.

 

[Shmackey]

You might want to look at BM's 73X & 94X series for mid-size tough knives.

That's a good point. I forgot about the 730 because I've always preferred the 710, but the 730 makes sense here sizewise.