Midtech

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Keith Montgomery said:
Ken's Midtech knives have the blade and handles blanked out and Ken does all the grinding and finishing. This is something that has been done by some makers for years and called custom.
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To me, this suggests there were those who hid behind the term "custom" before the term "midtech" was coined. Kind of a moot point if we're trying to determine if the term "midtech" is valid and applicable. (And, we certainly don't need to rehash the debate on the term "custom.")

But, do these symmantecs really mean anything if.....

Keith Montgomery said:
Should we just be cognizant enough to ask a maker how his/her knives are made and depend on their honesty?
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I agree with Mitch. To me, this suggests that we carefully consider trusting whatever information makers choose to disclose. It also makes the presumtion that, if makers don't tell you how they made the knife, they must be hiding something.

If this isn't questioning the integrity of makers, I must be misinterpreting your words.
 
Mitch, you are of course correct. At no time has any maker that I have dealt with given me any cause to think that they would provide me with anything other than an honest answer to any question that I asked.

That question was not meant to raise a issue about the honesty of makers, but I can see now that the way I wrote it could certainly be taken that way. If I had used the word shouldn't instead of should at the beginning of the question it would have more accurately gotten across the meaning I was trying to convey.
 
I'll still buy what I like, and not buy what I don't. If I have upset anyone or offended anyone in this thread, I'd just like to say,"Too bad for you." Also still think heat treat is way more important than any silly ruff blanking.
 
Most "factory" knives are "Midtech" knives if you want to look at it that way. Factory knives dont put themseves together, some guy sitting at a bench does. Many factories have outside suppliers who grind blades or heat treat or make pivots and clips and screws and other parts.

I see "Midtech" and "Semi Custom" meaning about the same thing: knives that use a substantial amount of outsourced components, such as blades and grips. Almost everybody buys their screws!

The key is, as has been said here and elsewhere, is HONESTY on the part of the maker. If the blades are double disc ground on automated machinery by an outside company, no maker should claim to have ground them himself, and I have not heard of one who did yet. There are probobly some out there though.

I do think knifemaking has VERY few bad apples - and this goes for makers and buyers!
 
I like to apologize to anyone I may have offended with my opinions. I don't claim to be an expert at anything. I joined Blade Forums in hopes of learning more about knifemaking so I could expand my knowledge. Everything I've ever learned I've read in books,magazines and from asking questions. I have nothing but respect for all knifemakers who have alot of experience at this craft. You makers who were making knives when I was a kid are the reason knives and the interest in them is where it is today. I just gave an opinion based on what I've read or have been told. If outsourced heat treat is considered part of being mid tech then I must be a mid tech maker,I don't know what to think after reading this thread. I would love to be able to heat treat or learn to heat treat myself, but I do not have the money to purchase the required equipment to do so. I make knives with the resources I can afford and outsourcing heat treat is the most cost effective way I know. This is my last controversial thread that I will participate in, since opinions are not taken for what they are.
Scott
 
I don't agree with everything Keith has spoken. Nor do I agree with everything others have spoken. But.... I now understand this a lot better from the passionate responses.

What I do agree with, is that this is a discussion forum, and sometimes the antagonistic questions *need* to be asked--without which we wouldn't be as knowledgable.

Keith, I applaud you for sticking your neck out.

Ralph Waldo Emerson: "It (the truth) cannot be received at second hand. Truly speaking, it is not instruction, but provocation, that I can receive from another soul."

This has been a very provocative thread.

Coop
 
Some makers make one of a kind knives one at the time and do it all in their own shop :D

Just an observation.

Edit ( I will apologize now for this has nothing to do with mid-tech)

Don Hanson
 
Kevin , I think the term substantial that you used in your last post is the problem . Midtech is not about outsourcing substantial components . It is about sole authorship vs semi sole authorship. This is getting old guys , stop reading more into it than there is. Use your oun discretion. If a guy farms out 100% of his work it is production . If he farms out 80% of his knife it still aint mid tech IMO it's still production. if your asking custom prices for it it should be custom. I just used the term midtech to differentiate between those knives I made 100% of and those that I outsourced the ROUGH parts with. Jesus I can't believe you guys don't get it yet. I am not going to define it further.
 
Mr. Dozier, I hope this post does not upset you as well. That is not quite my intent. But, could you please tell me how you would prefer someone refer to your standard patterns where you make use of a computer assisted tool in the manufacture. As custom?
 
Average

If You paid attention to what has been said, You would know that I said that I marked the knives that were ground out of my shop AR. KNIVES. Anyway, who are you to question every thing I do. Are you the Ralph Nater of the knife world. Does NASA employe your talents as a problem solver? It seems that you are just looking for a gripe and not the answer or solution to anything. I don't see where people like you are of any value to the knife world.

It's seems a shame to waste your fine talents here.

Bob D.
 
Razorback - Knives said:
I assume you are refering to my replies. I could be wrong but from what I've been told and have read, under the bi-laws of the Knifemakers Guild, it is exceptable for handmade or custom knives to have the heat treat done by someone other then the maker. Every other part has to be done by the maker himself. A.G. Russell should be the one to clarify this since he was responsible for forming the Guild.
Scott
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For many years the member agreed control was that the blade must be ground by hand, either the blade was held in the hand and applied to the grinder or the grinder was held in the hand and applied to the blade.

The present directors who have reduced the guild, while making themselves great have new lawyer written rules that can be printed here by someone other than my self.

I am trying very hard to figure a way out of this kind of mess for honest people. Probably the smartest way out is not to post to this kind of thread at all.

I spent the first 35 years in the this business working really hard to build and maintain a reputation for honesty and fairness only to learn that any axxhxxe with a bogus complaint could convince thousands that my words were hype.

My mistake was in trying to find a way to offer more Dozier knives to my customers in my favorite grind (flat) when Bob did not want to do flat ground knives and did not have the time anyway. The people talking in a bitchy mode are not customers they are people who want to stir **** to see if it will really stink. The full result is to piss off Ken Bob and myself and cause us to say things best left unsaid.

I have mailed enough catalogs over the years to wallpaper half the homes in this country and while I have made some mistakes I have never lied in any of them. It does not matter to me "what your defination of is is" you can take the things I have said with out wondering how I meant them.

If you are a customer and have a question, ask me, or the maker whose work is of interest to you. You can belive way over 95% of the makers in this business. What other industry offers you that kind of verasity (?)

A. G.
 
Mr Dozier, I see that I have upset you again.

I do accept now that indeed these models are not only custom but handmade as well. At least that seems to be the conclusion of a long and intelligent discussion in the general discussion forum.
 
Thank you A.G. for clarifying it better. I not going to speak for anyone else, but I said some things out of frustration and confusion. Bottom line is a maker has a right to make his knives as he chooses. Ken, Bob and Tom, I can understand your anger. You have a right to operate your knife business as you see fit. If people can't take you on your word then they have the problem.
Scott
 
Ok, my final thoughts on this.

As far as I am concerned there is a place for the term midtech as put forward by Ken Onion. It is meant to describe a knife that is neither a custom nor a production and I think there is definitely a place for this classification.

As far as finding out from a maker how his/her knives are made, I believe that it is my responsibilty to ask. I expect and believe that I will be provided with an honest answer to my query, because I have never been given anything but completely honest answers by any maker that I have conversed with or had dealings with.
 
And with that this closed.IMHO no further discussion is needed.Serves no purpose.
Ken has described it in detail when he coined the phrase.
Thanks in advance for your understanding.
Randy
 
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