Might Be Dumb Question : Contact Wheel ?

Dennis Towns

Dennis Towns

Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
254
Ok I tried to do a search and did not get an answer so here is the question. There are some really nice looking CASTER WHEELS , all kind of sizes, hubs aluminum or composite, different types of coatings. Why are they not good for a contact wheel ? Even if not perfectly round , if they were trued up with a lathe and high speed bearing installed would they be as good as whats out there ? A lot less money. I know I am just digging too deep into some of these things. Thank you for your response and input.
 
Well if you are dead set on wasting time and effort to make a Sketchy Wheel a better wheel the only question remaining is would you rather do that or make knives?

My take on it is...I want to make knives...With what I have spent on equipment and materials over the years I could have purchased a HUGE collection of Beautiful Customs. I chose to buy GOOD WHEELS no truing , no balancing, bolt 'em on good to go.
 
All the casters I've seen are rock hard urethane. Even if you got it trued up and balanced, it would still be a poor contact wheel.
Proper vulcanized rubber contact wheels (Bader, CRC, ect) are well worth the cost in my opinion.
 
I bought a 300mm (almost 12") and a 150mm (almost 6") contact wheel from L-Paladin on Aliexpress here: https://lpaladin.aliexpress.com/sto...385.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.2995e5c0PXuYGz I ordered it bored for the 6202 bearings, but did NOT have them installed. I didn't want to go looking for a 15mm axle bolt. I ordered 6202-1/2" bore bearings and installed them. I had to clean up the bore just a bit with some emory cloth (really just cleaned it up, didn't remove any material) and froze my bearings to install them. The cost is way lower than anything else I could find. I have been very happy with these wheels. I ordered the stock durometer of 65, but you can specify 35-100 durometer. The 12" wheel was dynamically balanced (it had a plug of material bored out of one side near the edge). Both spin true no wobble. The wheels came in 4 days. I don't even know how they got them here from China that quickly. I prefer to buy American, but I would be shocked if some domestic wheels aren't sourced from this manufacturer.
 
I warned you in the topic. My old mind wonders around like a lost puppy sometimes. I couldn't figure out why such good looking caster wheels were not used in some form or fashion. I have been a member for some time now but have only dwell on making knives and did reading off and on. I have a couple of Goddard books I am trying to get read. I do have all the equipment to make my own grinder wheels and pulleys if I want to but will probably just buy them. I have a GIB ordered for a while but not sure when I will receive it, I think he is backed up bad. As always thank you for taking care of your elderly folks, their minds just needs a little rattling now and then.o_O
 
cootersplace said:
I warned you in the topic. My old mind wonders around like a lost puppy sometimes. I couldn't figure out why such good looking caster wheels were not used in some form or fashion. I have been a member for some time now but have only dwell on making knives and did reading off and on. I have a couple of Goddard books I am trying to get read. I do have all the equipment to make my own grinder wheels and pulleys if I want to but will probably just buy them. I have a GIB ordered for a while but not sure when I will receive it, I think he is backed up bad. As always thank you for taking care of your elderly folks, their minds just needs a little rattling now and then.o_O
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It's not all that bad I'm in my late 60's and been at this a while...My Engineering and Machinist background have taught me to look at the options more closely. In the early days of Custom knifemaking 60', 70's, 80's the parts and machinery options we have today were not available so many makers working on shoe string budgets would source materials from dumpsters and junk piles what they could not find at yard sales. Today we have such a great "Niche" Knife Art culture that many new makers have Great Tools to choose from. It's just penny wise to purchase better quality components if you intend to make better quality knives. Sure there are less expensive Wheels available as was noted above and I have purchased some from the E auction site that were less than Bader or KMG wheels with full awareness that I was going to get a decent wheel as good as Bader...No...but less expensive yes and I didn't have to do any modifications as noted above they bolted right on. So again unless you are a serious scrounger where there are lots of scrapyards and enjoy making something out of nothing my suggestion is to just find Ready to Attach and run wheels.
 
Biggest problem would likely be balance/smoothness at higher speeds, followed by hardness and durability of the coating. There's a chance it COULD be around a 60-70 durometer urethane coating, but then there's also the issue of width, and then mounting it to some bearings that would take the RPMs of a grinder for more than 5 minutes. For the time and effort it'd take to balance one, install proper bearings, and still maybe not have a decent covering, the wheels from china, or even sunray start looking a lot more reasonable in price.
 
For a dollar piece from scrap yard , I will try to get them right . . . :)

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You are going to do what you want anyway...That's human nature. Do you want to make knives of professional quality? If you say yes then wouldn't you want to start out with a professional quality contact wheel? If you can't afford a proper wheel then how about searching for a used high quality contact wheel? If you want to make really good knives then find a way to get this essential piece of equipment. If your not that serious then play around with salvage and try to make it work. Good luck with that. Larry

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Sorry but tools don t make knifes , especially not professional quality. You make profesional quality knife :thumbsup: I like to make tools from what I have around me . . . . .
 
Larry, I LIKE that tool rest. Looks really nice and steady, and easy to adjust.

Natlek, I agree with you that really NICE knives can be made with almost no tools. Just look how nice some of the file only folks have made knives. Like you, I enjoy making tools almost as much as knife making.
For the wheels you show, put them in freezer overnight, then chuck up in your lathe and true up the surface so it's nice 'n round, and even along the edges. Then true up the holds for your bearings, press bearings in. Check for balance by hand turning on the axle to check if there are any heavy spots (always stopping on bottom). If so, drill a small dimple at that point until the wheel always stops at a random place.

Those wheels could work nicely. If they do, GREAT!!! if for some reason they don't work so well, no big deal, only thing you've lost is some time. "IF" you're making knives full time, then time is money and it might be less expensive to just buy a decent wheel, but hobby knife making (like me), time is pretty cheap {g}

Let us know how the wheels turn out, and good luck.

Ken H>
 
If you want to get a real contact wheel on a budget, keep an eye out for a cheap/free worn out/destroyed one. CRC will recover them for substantially less than buying a new wheel, and you'll have a new vulcanized rubber wheel for the same as if not less than a urethane wheel

By the time I got my 12" Bader wheel up here to Canada it was nearly $600. And it's worth every damn penny. True industrial contact wheels are well worth it.

At least from the picture, those look like lawnmower or barbecue wheels to me. If so I'd personally be rather reluctant to run them at the speed of a contact wheel. If you do try it, at least stand to the side when you turn it on, and let it run a good 10-15 minutes at full speed before you try grinding.
 
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Ken H> said:
Larry, I LIKE that tool rest. Looks really nice and steady, and easy to adjust.

Natlek, I agree with you that really NICE knives can be made with almost no tools. Just look how nice some of the file only folks have made knives. Like you, I enjoy making tools almost as much as knife making.
For the wheels you show, put them in freezer overnight, then chuck up in your lathe and true up the surface so it's nice 'n round, and even along the edges. Then true up the holds for your bearings, press bearings in. Check for balance by hand turning on the axle to check if there are any heavy spots (always stopping on bottom). If so, drill a small dimple at that point until the wheel always stops at a random place.

Those wheels could work nicely. If they do, GREAT!!! if for some reason they don't work so well, no big deal, only thing you've lost is some time. "IF" you're making knives full time, then time is money and it might be less expensive to just buy a decent wheel, but hobby knife making (like me), time is pretty cheap {g}

Let us know how the wheels turn out, and good luck.

Ken H>
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Exactly that I intend to do . If rubber/urethane is not good I will send them to be vulcanized with rubber . Only problem is that I have no idea what is soft to much , what is hard to much.... first contact for me with this kind of tool . Balancing big bike wheel is part of my job :)Look , if you know what are you doing and how part you make should work , it s easy to do . This is 16 inch front bike wheel , next week I hope I will turn on lathe and send in specialized shop to be vulcanized with rubber ...I need this big contact wheel because I m half a way in finishing first ever made CNC /4 axis/ jig for grinding knive on belt grinder ;)
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Geoff Flato said:
If you want to get a real contact wheel on a budget, keep an eye out for a cheap/free worn out/destroyed one. CRC will recover them for substantially less than buying a new wheel, and you'll have a new vulcanized rubber wheel for the same as if not less than a urethane wheel
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2.5" $58
3" $58
6"68
8" $96
14" $190

I mean, it's less, but those are the prices they gave me to cover new wheels. I was going to turn some. I ended up doing what Kevin suggested. Though I ordered mine with 15mm bearings because I just turned the OD of a 5/8 bolt down to fit and that worked fine, plenty of thread engagement left.
 
kuraki said:
2.5" $58
3" $58
6"68
8" $96
14" $190

I mean, it's less, but those are the prices they gave me to cover new wheels. I was going to turn some. I ended up doing what Kevin suggested. Though I ordered mine with 15mm bearings because I just turned the OD of a 5/8 bolt down to fit and that worked fine, plenty of thread engagement left.
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Its by no means free, but if you came across a destroyed 14" wheel and had it recovered, that'd still be a lot less than a new wheel of equivalent quality.
 
That's debatable. The Paladin wheels I got are excellent, well balanced and concentric.
 
Natlek said:
Sorry but tools don t make knifes , especially not professional quality. You make profesional quality knife :thumbsup: I like to make tools from what I have around me . . . . .
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I'm confused, if this is your thinking, why would you have a CNC fabricated jig for grinding knives? It seems you are looking for precision on one hand and cobbled together on the other. Do what you want, but I'm a little stumped on the goal.
 
Kevin McGovern said:
I'm confused, if this is your thinking, why would you have a CNC fabricated jig for grinding knives? It seems you are looking for precision on one hand and cobbled together on the other. Do what you want, but I'm a little stumped on the goal.
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I understand re-purposing material to a certain extent...but in all my years was never asked to use '50 Merc parts to build Shuttle parts:eek::rolleyes:
As I've grown older my window is closing on time to fiddle with making parts from scrap and more on making knives before my hands completely stop responding to cerebral input while hand grinding blades:eek:
 
Are those wheels you ordered urethane or rubber coated?
I guess the urethane has worked well for a lot of people, I've just always felt it worthwhile spending the bit extra for rubber. If they work well for you, that's all that really mstters
 
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