Military Jr.?

Joined
Dec 24, 2000
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Hey all-

I did a half-hearted search of this forum for "Military Jr." and didn't see a whole lot, so forgive me if this has been beat to death already.

I was just looking at some pictures of the Military, admiring the shape of the handle, the beauty of that blade in 440V, you know- thinking where I might find one the cheapest...but then I realized it's just too darn big for my usage. Make mine with a 3" to 3.25" blade and I'll take the first two in plain edge.

So- whatever happened to the idea of the Military Jr.? Anyone still behind this idea? I mean c'mon- it's gotta be a better suggestion than the mutated Chinook that's "evolving" in another thread....;)

Firebat
 
OMG I would be the first to buy that. I would order factory direct for that...if it was less than 100 bucks factory direct :D
 
Posted - 23 October 2001 12:49

...The MIL jr is still waiting for a slot. Probably will do a short run in 2002 to work out bugs.

It's in the works. Nothing we can show yet.

sal

The last stats I heard (some time ago) was 3.25" blade, BG-42, compression lock, probably a non-black G10 handle (OD?).
 
The Standard in ATS-55 and G-10, 2 7/8" blade.
The Rookie in ATS-55 and G-10, 3 1/8" blade.
The mil jr. is already there!:D
 
Cool, thanks for the info guys. Sounds like there's hope yet!

As for the comparison of the Rookie and the Standard as kinds of existing "Military Jrs." well, not quite. Nice thought, but there's a pretty darn important factor missing...CPM440V. (Although BG-42 isn't a bad choice, either...) I just don't care for ATS-55 all that much. Plus, I want a replica of the Military- only slghtly smaller overall. Same shapes, same looks.

Non-black G-10 handles? Could it be? Now that would be too sweet.

So I'll tell you what Spyderco, here's what I need from you. Listening Sal? ;)

3.25" CPM440V, BG-42, or VG-10 Military-esque blade. (VG-10 would be great and probably help to keep the pricing in line, no?)

OD Green or Desert Tan G-10 handle slabs

Compression lock is fine, but I'd take mine with a liner-lock just like the current Military. Again, in an effort to get it to market a t a reasonable price.

That's all I'm asking- pretty reasonable, huh?

Puhhhleeease?

:D :D :D

Firebat
 
Originally posted by Firebat
Compression lock is fine, but I'd take mine with a liner-lock just like the current Military. Again, in an effort to get it to market a t a reasonable price.

I think the regular Military will be going to a compression lock as well -- actually I thought it was going to happen this year. Maybe 2002.
 
Glock-Doc, The Rookie and the Standard are neither flat ground nor do they have the fine tip geometry as the Mil. has.

The G-10's are also heavier (with liners) as constructed than the full-size Military. The Millie can be taken apart and the G-10's cannot be.

The G-10's are discontinued, the Military can't keep up with demand.

I'd say that there are a lot of good reasons for the Military Jr, not the least of which would be the BG-42 steel if we actually get that.
 
To be honest, I've always thought that a Military Jr. would probably be a bad idea. (And I've actually owned and used a Military model; I haven't just seen pictures of one. :rolleyes: )

The question you would have to answer is: How could you make a smaller version of the Military without ruining its highly refined, ergonomic handle? It might be possible, but I'm personally pretty skeptical. I don't know if Spyderco has really answered that question yet either, since the idea for a Military Jr. has been around for years and the knife still hasn't gone into production.
 
Oh well- I guess my inquiry is null and void then, huh?

Actually I did *own* a Military for a bit, got it on a trade, but sold it off some time ago as it was just too friggin' huge for my day to day requirements.

Not everyone's the same. The perfect ergonomics you spoke of don't necessarily apply to all users. Not everyone has the same size hands. Perfect for you as the ultimate authority on actually using a Military, right? I mean what the hell do I know, I was just looking at a picture for god's sake.

The Wegner and Wegner Jr. handles look pretty much the same to me. Same with a few other models as well. The "jrs" are just smaller versions of the same design. If you don't think it's a good idea, fine. Don't buy one. But don't roll your eyes at me because I prefaced my comments by saying that having another look at one made me wonder about a smaller size...

Like I can't express appreciation for a design without recognizing it's finely tuned ergonomic package? Please.

Firebat
 
Whoa... Firebat, chill dude! :) You never mentioned that you owned the model. In fact, you specifically said that you decided it was too big after looking at a picture of it. I'm sorry I got the wrong impression and I really mean no offense.

I still think that a Military Jr. would probably be a bad idea. That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy one - it just means that I'd have to handle one first.

I'm certainly no authority on using the Military or any other knife for that matter. LOL! I'm just expressing an opinion that anyone can feel free to disagree with.
 
While I very much appreciate the ergonomics of the Military as it is, it has about 0.75 inches more handle than I need for 99.9% of the time I've had it. And as I posted in another thread recently, I have put it to some pretty hard use lately. Leaning onto it with most of my weight, cutting through carpeting, I still had a little extra handle sticking out beyond the heel of my strong hand. Not criticising it; just saying that its excellent ergonomics are not necessarily purely a result of its size. As a result, I believe a downsized Military could and would retain 99.9% of the excellent ergonomics of the Military without even having to do any fancy engineering. :cool: Well, unless you have hands like Andre the Giant.
 
The reason I would like to see a mini militairy is that I like the overall consept and disign alot. But the current version is just to big for my hands.
 
Originally posted by cerulean
Whoa... Firebat, chill dude! :) You never mentioned that you owned the model. In fact, you specifically said that you decided it was too big after looking at a picture of it. I'm sorry I got the wrong impression and I really mean no offense.

Sorry Cerulean- my apologies. Last couple of days have seen me all full of pi** and vinegar. :D I shouldn't have let both barrels fly at you like that.

Feeling much better now though!

:D :D :D

Firebat
 
Folks,

I too find the Military's handle a bit longer than needed for most things. However, I really like the feel of the knife and find it very comfortable to use. It would be interesting to see and handle one with a slightly smaller handle, however I wouldn't want to see a shrunken version lose too much blade length. I feel, as others have expressed that the Military seems to have more handle than it "needs" for the length of it's blade. I have heard that it was designed this way so that one could actually get two hands onto the handle, if the the need should arise.

Jeff/1911.
 
Quotes from 1999 regarding the Military Jr. project:

Originally posted by Sal Glesser
Eveything is slowed down until we get the SpydeRench production up to schedule.

My plan is early Y2k for the first batch.

sal


...Cannot improve the handle to blade ratio and still keep the choil. Please keep in mind that "handles are for holdng and blades are for cutting". The ratio is only relevant to the eye. Think of a scalpel.

The Miliary Jr. feels the same in the hand as the larger version. Just raises fewer eyebrows. It is however, a much "larger" knife than the Calypso Jr.

sal


...Yes, there will be a test run at least. But it probably won't happen until mid 2K.

sal

[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 12 December 1999).]


We have a design, we have blade and handle material (BG42 & G10). We are just very busy right now. I would say a "test batch" might be available early 2000.
the Military Jr isn't smaller, just shorter at both endes. The "cockpit" area remains the same as the large model.

sal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Military Jr. will first be test. Using BG42 permits a test of both design and steel. The steel from the point of view of both manufacturing and ELU response to design and material. If the test goes well, we will ore than likely use 440V as well on the model. If the test goes poorly, then we go back to R & D.
I would be surious as to what tests "prove" BG42 to be inferior, in what regards, and who did these tests.

Please remember, when we introduced 440V into the marketplace, hardly anyone had heard of it.

If it's good, we'll use it. If not, then not. We like to do our own testing. There are very few "real" experts in this area. Lab tests are good, but there is nothing like a "knife nut" to get feedback on something new.

We planned on using the Rolling Lock for this test model but that deal fell through. We'll be making linerlock the same as the Military and Starmate locks. I personally do not believe that there is a better made, stronger or more reliable linerlock than our Military and Starmate locks. Production or custom!

sal


Guinness - We have no intentions of dropping 440V. We also have intentions of playing with 420V some more (We made a run of "Q's" in 420V with the words CPM420V cut into the blade".
We're also playing with BG42, Dendritic Cobalt, H1, etc. etc.

The BG42 that we tested here in Golden was HTed by Chris Reeve and it tested very well in edge retention. Samples are going out for corrossion testing now.

BH - Not sure of exactly what we're doing with the Military Jr. Depends on how many we make for the test. If we make enough, we'll even sell a few. Help pay for tooling, etc.

sal


...Of the steels that we have tested for edge retention and initial sharpness, there were 4 in that "upper" range of our own tests. 440V, 420V, BG-42 and ZDP-189.
In actual numbers (smaller range done from averages) BG-42 tested better than CPM-440V & ZDP-189 in both initial sharpness and edge retention. This was with Chris' heat treating.

We were convinced enough that we've already received a batch of BG-42 that is currently being cut for the Military Jr. experimental batch. We're hoping Chris will help us with heat treat...

We're working on one now. Blade length is 3-1/8" (including choil). Large hole is ratained (handle still looks oversized). It is a shorter stubby Mlitary. I don'think it will win any beaty conests, but should be functional. Model will have a Rolling lock or a "Wedge lock" (in house name).

sal


Current design calls for a blade slightly over 3" from hilt to tip. The "Cockpit area" of the model is the same as the regular Military. Thus the heft and full hand feeling is still there, but the overall length is shorter. Soprt of "Stubby". "The Concept Model" will have a Rolling lock. Probably be just one or two, which means initial testing will be done by Vince and I. Sorry.

sal


Some quotes from the last two years:

Posted - 18 October 2000 22:17
...Sorry, just drawings at this time. The Golden plant is far behind on production for models now. Have to wait a while. The disadvantage of "speaking too soon".

The "Cockpit area" will be the same as the Mil with the length taken off the ends. Sort of a stubby Military.

sal

Posted - 15 March 2001 13:2

The first run of Mil jr will be a test for us to see if we want to make them. Only a small number of the test run will be available for purchase and probably at a pretty high price.

sal


Posted - 23 October 2001 12:49

The MIL jr is still waiting for a slot. Probably will do a short run in 2002 to work out bugs.

sal
 
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