Military or Chinook

[2bits]

...The one made my cold steel

That does open up some options. Espada XL. Can I pierce 50gal drums with a Military?

Seriously though, the Tri Ad lock screams gimmicky marketing, but the engineer in me appreciates the design and durability behind it. My guess is the spyderco lockback is just as good, though, but they aren't marketing it the same. Maybe someone can confirm/deny. Regardless, I doubt I'll ever be in a position to appreciate the extra strength of the Tri Ad lock, real or percieved.

Trying not to be a steel snob, but I'm willing to pay for better than Aus8 which was a good steel 10 years ago (still good, granted).

 

[Nemo]

That does open up some options. Espada XL. Can I pierce 50gal drums with a Military?

Certainly. Tips can brake when prying not piercing.
You'll be surprise how a the Millie tip can pierce through various materials.
I remember tests Fred Perrin made on kevlar jackets with our millies.
Five layers pierced like butter... It was purely outstanding !
Don't "rolleyes" before doing some test on your own...


cheers

Oh, I lov the Chinook too. Mine got a thinner edge than my millie... Guess i was lucky with that big baby.
Now I'm EDCing a Gayle Bradley this is the new tough kid on the block. Tough as nail. You should consider it if you want to pierce 50gal drums. This one can handle it too!

YMMV but i know some 440A knives which keep a better edge than some 154CM expensive knives.
Heat treatment and grind are more important than the steel IMHO.

 

[2bits]

Don't "rolleyes" before doing some test on your own...

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't rolleyes at the Military. My comment was aimed at the video demonstrations Cold Steel does for all their knives. A litle over the top IMHO. This thread isn't about CS, though, so I'll leave it there.

 

[2bits]

Now I'm EDCing a Gayle Bradley this is the new tough kid on the block. Tough as nail. You should consider it if you want to pierce 50gal drums. This one can handle it too! .

I won't be cutting any 50gal drums, but it's a good comment on the GB toughness. How well do you think the lock will work for a lefty? Thanks.

 

[Chris Pierce]

That does open up some options. Espada XL. Can I pierce 50gal drums with a Military?

Seriously though, the Tri Ad lock screams gimmicky marketing, but the engineer in me appreciates the design and durability behind it. My guess is the spyderco lockback is just as good, though, but they aren't marketing it the same. Maybe someone can confirm/deny. Regardless, I doubt I'll ever be in a position to appreciate the extra strength of the Tri Ad lock, real or percieved.

Trying not to be a steel snob, but I'm willing to pay for better than Aus8 which was a good steel 10 years ago (still good, granted).

You'd be wrong. But if you want to pay more, for less. Go for it

 

[Nemo]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't rolleyes at the Military. My comment was aimed at the video demonstrations Cold Steel does for all their knives. A litle over the top IMHO. This thread isn't about CS, though, so I'll leave it there.

No offense. I like the over the top Cold Steel videos. After all they got knives for free to test and it's always spectacular to see how much a small blade can do damages on meat :thumbup:. Excellent in an education course.

I won't be cutting any 50gal drums, but it's a good comment on the GB toughness. How well do you think the lock will work for a lefty? Thanks.

Me neither (I won't use my knives on a 50gal drums). Regarding the lefty friendliness of the GB. Well. I use it also with my left hand and found it was easy to insert/work the meat of my thumb between the liners to unlock it. Then to disengage it with a flick of my wrist. It works for me. Really the GB is an incredible design for a tough folding workhorse.

Anyway regarding your choice between the Millie and the Chinook. The most right/left hands friendly is obviously the chinook. Heavier, stronger than the Millie. Now the titanium Millie is also an option...

You know what ? The best thing to do is still to go to a knife shop and handle them. Or buy both and sale the one you won't use. You cannot go wrong anyway. It's really a matter of personnal choice and their uses.
I prefer Liner locks because I don't have any vertical play when I will pushcut hard. This is only my taste. (Now I love FB for that kind of works like the Bushcrafter...) There is that tiny beat of vertical blade play on a lot of excellent brands like for example Fallkniven ! No big deal this is part of the lock design.


Cheers !


PS: regarding the tri ad lock. This is IMHO a very very clever addition on the lock engineering. I have handle some CS knives and the annoying vertical play did not occure on them. Personnal taste again. I got friends who use hard their Spydie back lock knives and don't mind about that little vertical tiny play. When I use my Chinook I don't mind that much too.
Regarding AUS8, well I really dig my byrd and their steel is in the same league: forgiving and easy to keep razor. Really heat treatment and geometry are at least 66% of the equation. Again the good old O1 bar heat treated and ground for the Bushcrafter is just amazing. And the CPM M4 is uncanny (thin and hard and strong blades can only give high performances) and that fine grain steel is a joy to use on wood.
Now I'm 33% steel snob too !

 

[Flatlander1963]

Great idea on the Manix 1. It matches the good traits of the Chinook plus it has a classic spyderco leaf shape blade. It's .3oz heavier than the Chinook, so all the downsides from that apply plus a bit more.

How's the Manix deployment? Compared to other knives in this thread?

The Superleaf is nice, but doesn't quite match up to the Manix. Also not sure how lefty-friendly that lock is. None of my current knives lock like that, and I've never seen it in person.

I carry my manix tip-up in my back right pocket. Sometimes risky for your clip as it can hang on things at times. To answer your question...fast and smooth. It's a solid purposeful knife with a strong tip. It is a favorite knife and I like the leaf pattern blade in 3.75 inches :thumbup::thumbup:

I'm not a lefty but I did try the knife out as if I was and I don't think you will have any issue. It has a four way clip design. If you can find one jump on it.

The military is a good option for a light big knife. You can pick them up second-hand in as new condition for slightly north of $100.

You will likely go through many knives before you find your favored pattern. It's kinda fun finding out too. (but kinda expensive too )

 

[2bits]

You will likely go through many knives before you find your favored pattern. It's kinda fun finding out too. (but kinda expensive too )

As of right now, I'm tempted to buy both a Manix1 and a Military. Maybe I'll sell the one I like least, or keep both. Still watching this thread however.

I see the green Manix1 for sale occasionally on forums and ebay, and that would go really nicely with the G10 Fly... nothing wrong with the lefty Military in black either.

Thanks all so far. Great info as always.

 

[georgegilstrap]

depends on the use the chinook was made for self defence in mind the military for utility and defence. if you want a defense blade the chinook if utility and defence the military its that simple.

 

[Handwrecker]

Not trying to rain on any parades, but every original C95 Manix I've seen sell recently has gone for about $225.

As far as the question of the G10 and nested liners on the Military being strong enough, this little snipit seems to sum up G10 well:

G10 fiberglass boards are made of a special glass epoxy laminate that has extremely high strength. G10 fiberglass is used in marine applications due to its superior strength, moisture resistance, and excellent electrical and fire insulation.
Fiberglass boards make excellent non-corrosive backing plates for high load deck hardware or bond to engine room bulkheads to hold mounting brackets.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=8758

The Military was made as a heavy duty utility knife first and foremost. I really doubt you would have the G10/nested liners fail on you. Light doesn't necessarily mean weak.

 

[Buffalohump]

The Military is by far the more useful knife of the two.

If you plan on using the knife a lot, then get the Military.

The blade profile and grind is perfect for cutting and the handle ergos are second to none.

It is no coincidence that the Millie design has remained essentially the same since it was introduced. There's no point in messing with perfection.

If the original Manix was still available, that would be the perfect combination of the Chinooks comforting heft and the Millie's practicality.

I wish like crazy they'd never discontinued it. It should have remained a core part of the Spyderco line-up, alongside the Millie.

 

[singularity35]

If the original Manix was still available, that would be the perfect combination of the Chinooks comforting heft and the Millie's practicality.

I wish like crazy they'd never discontinued it. It should have remained a core part of the Spyderco line-up, alongside the Millie.

Yes to this.

 

[dragonram7]

Both are awesome knives. You won't be disappointed with either. In my experience, when the choice is this close, you will end up buying both. My favorite Military is the BG-42 with carbon fiber.

I'm ambidextrous but for left side carry, I would choose the Chinook. Great SD and outdoor knife. Don't pry with your knife. If I were to carry a knife on duty, I'm retired now, I'm going with James Keatings Chinook. I love the rare Manix, too much hassle to acquire. The Manix might appreciable be better if you pry a great deal. They share the same lock. I'd get the chinook first, then the Military. Around town, the Military will win. In the mountains-Chinook. When you deploy the chinook, the world stops and pays homage. Read-it's like riding an MV Agusta F4 1000rr or Ducati 1098. Everybody notices.

 

[Burke]

Your intended uses for a "heavy duty folder" could not scream "fixed blade" any more loudly. Although I try to avoid giving people "you don't want what you think you want" advice, this has to be an exception to that.

If you really wanted a do-it-all, utility and wilderness survival knife, a Military would be a great choice. But if you are picking a second knife that isn't going to be a constant companion and will just be joining you for outdoors tasks, get a fixed blade. That's your data-driven, optimal solution.

 

[JTR357]

Of the two,I'd opt for the Chinook.I like the lock & ergos better.

 

[Flatlander1963]

If the original Manix was still available, that would be the perfect combination of the Chinooks comforting heft and the Millie's practicality.

I wish like crazy they'd never discontinued it. It should have remained a core part of the Spyderco line-up, alongside the Millie.

Never a more profound and correct statement with regard to a Spyderco!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Flatlander1963]

Not trying to rain on any parades, but every original C95 Manix I've seen sell recently has gone for about $225.

If you're willing to buy a combo edge in a lightly used model, they can be significantly less than mentioned above.

My Manix shown in this thread was purchased in the last month for $125. There are diamonds among the stones for those with patience and a little luck.

 

[proud2deviate]

Please bear in mind I have no direct experience with either blade. With that said, of the two, I would recommend the Chinook, based on lock and tip strength. I EDC'd a Manix for over a year, and it was a heavy, pocket-eating SOB. I still love it dearly, and wouldn't give it up for twice what I paid. Since this is to be an occasional use knife, I say bring the beef.

Oh, and get a fixed-blade. Can't go wrong with a Ka-Bar. . .

 

[Handwrecker]

If you're willing to buy a combo edge in a lightly used model, they can be significantly less than mentioned above.

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep my eyes peeled. I've never warmed up to the Manix 2 as it seems like Spyderco's answer to a Benchmade (154CM, CBBL, hollow grind, G10 w/ heavy liners) but the OG 4mm S30V Manix seems like it carries it's weight.

And to the original poster, I agree with the fixed blade suggestion. If this is only a part time user for wilderness tasks that you'll be carrying a folder with, look at the ESEE 4. You're worried about prying, piercing, twisting, and lock strength for beating the tar out of it. The ESEE 4 will be only an ounce heavier than the Nook or Manix, but you won't ever have to worry about the lock or the liners not being up to par, and it won't take up your entire pocket. Even if you did somehow manage to break it, it has a lifetime unconditional warranty. Just food for thought.

 

[brj]

Chinook, almost 2oz heavier, but full steel liners. [...]
Military, 4" blade in a 4oz package, but that's due to mostly G10 construction (no full liners).

a little bit on the nested liner, explained by Sal himself

When you see other liner locks with those big, heavy, double liners, they give the impression of great strength, mostly due to their heft. Those liners are held in place, in most (every one I've seen) cases, by tiny pins. When closing force is applied to the blades of those knives, it is concentrated on those pins. The heavy steel, etc. becomes a moot issue, because as the closing force tries to rotate the lock out of the scale, the failure point of the lock is being determined by the failure point of those tiny pins. If they go, the lock goes.

With the nested liner, as the name implies, the lock is actually nested into the G-10 of the scale. Ergo, when closing force is applied to the lock, and it wants to rotate out of the scale, all the force is transferred to the scale itself. For this liner to fail (under closing pressure) the lock would have to burst through the side of the G-10. It's a matter of how the forces are dissipated. A suspension bridge can have a longer span than a conventional rigid one, an arch can support more than corbelling, etc.

It's a very elegant solution, and more high-tech, expensive and labor intensive than just pinning a couple of liners into the scales. I love explaining that to people who tell me that Spyderco underengineered the Military. Now you can too.

btw, I'd go with the Millie