Military selects Sig 320

When Ruger went from the 6lb trigger pull on the LC9 to the 4.5lb trigger pull on the LC9s the difference was night and day. Of coarse the lack of creep in the LC9s also helps. Other then what I personally consider to be a stiff trigger, I think this will make a damned fine duty weapon and it definitely beats the breaks off the old Berettas.
 
Glocks already have three safeties integrated into their design. They don't need a forth, external safety, that's only going to get in the way.

If they can't add a thumb safety to maybe get the US contract, then it's their own damn fault.

If the .gov wants a thumb safety, then suck up your "pride" and make a thumb safety. The 320 2 internal safeties and offer models models with thumb safeties and or tabbed triggers, depending on the buyer's wants.
 
If they can't add a thumb safety to maybe get the US contract, then it's their own damn fault.

If the .gov wants a thumb safety, then suck up your "pride" and make a thumb safety. The 320 2 internal safeties and offer models models with thumb safeties and or tabbed triggers, depending on the buyer's wants.

And if Glock introduced a variant with an external thumb safety just to land a military contract, how long would it take before various states refused to allow the sale of Glocks on the private market unless they were the models with the external safety?

Seriously, the issue of whether or not there's an external thumb safety is ridiculous. The SEALS and other countless agencies that adopted the Glock don't need a thumb safety, why should the army?
 
It wasn't the lack of an additional safety lever that lost the contract for Glock. Glock already has contracts for the SEALS, Special Forces, and Marine Raiders as each of these units' issue sidearm. The reason Glock was not chosen is that the Army wanted true modularity, which the Glock design did not have, at least in the way the Army wanted it. What other branches will choose is still unknown. Perhaps the other branches will choose to follow the Army, but some, like the Navy, may choose the Glock, instead.
 
It makes good sense for Glock (or anyone else) not to build a special pistol for a trial like this.

Given the the last few cancelled small arms programs there is a huge risk involved that they could win the contract and then loose their entire investment due to a decision to use those pistol dollars for some other program.
 
A glock with an external safety is like sucking a tit through a sweater.
 
How do you find a better military pistol than Glock? Not sure one exists even though it is 2017.
 
I love all this discussion, but let's face it; the choice boiled down to dollars. Sig had the lowest bid for what the Army was looking for so it got the contract. Not because the P320 was the best, not because it had all the features required, but because it cost less. Oh, and the Army gets several guns for the price of one due to its modular capability...and it was still cheap.


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I had thought for sure it would be Glock but did I see they were having issues with some new ones that went to law enforcement or some such? Anyway for sure I thought it would be Glock or Sig and I was pretty sure it would be 9mm which I don't agree with. My understanding is they could not make up their mind so they went to Jame Mattis to have him decide?
 
I may eat crow but my guess is that this will go the same way the MARSOC 1911 did. They'll run it for a year or so and drop it for the glock.
 
Glocks already have three safeties integrated into their design. They don't need a forth, external safety, that's only going to get in the way.

And if Glock introduced a variant with an external thumb safety just to land a military contract, how long would it take before various states refused to allow the sale of Glocks on the private market unless they were the models with the external safety?

Seriously, the issue of whether or not there's an external thumb safety is ridiculous. The SEALS and other countless agencies that adopted the Glock don't need a thumb safety, why should the army?


There are glocks that have thumb safeties out there, gen 1 protos floating about.

If glocks haven't been regulated in certain states by now (without adding a safety), then why would they be now if there was one offered? Sig makes without and without thumb safety. Is there a state out there that restricts 1 model and not the other? Smith and Wesson M&Ps do the same, and the same question still applies

As for the Army and thumb safeties, different standards, different wants. Why did the FBI want a model without the dumb thumb ridges?

It's not about what glock wants to do, it's about what the buyer wants.

Why does glock have a tabbed safety? Isn't that a pointless safety now that the 320 doesn't have one and it has been so successful?
 
There are glocks that have thumb safeties out there, gen 1 protos floating about.

Prototypes really don't prove much of anything, other than what the idea was at the time. If there are changes between the prototype and the finished product, usually there's a reason for it.

If glocks haven't been regulated in certain states by now (without adding a safety), then why would they be now if there was one offered? Sig makes without and without thumb safety. Is there a state out there that restricts 1 model and not the other?

We don't really know that yet. There could very well be sleeper legislation that hasn't yet been triggered. New Jersey has a law saying that only smart guns can be sold within the state, but it doesn't go into effect until a smart gun becomes available on the market.

And then there's California and its particular way of doing things. If a manufacturer produces one model of pistol, but supplies it in two different finishes, California counts it as two entirely different models that have to be verified for sale. If Glock were to suddenly produce a model with an external thumb safety, there's little doubt they'd suddenly reclassify the non-thumb safety models as unsafe for private sale, and make them illegal for ownership. Same for DC which basically stole their approach to doing things.

Smith and Wesson M&Ps do the same, and the same question still applies

Didn't Smith & Wesson do that from the ground up though? Or did they produce only one M&P model in the beginning, and then go about changing its controls for the creation of new models?

As for the Army and thumb safeties, different standards, different wants. Why did the FBI want a model without the dumb thumb ridges?

You'd have to ask the FBI about that one. But a removal of thumb ridges doesn't require a significant redesign of internal components, which in turn requires significant research and development into how the internals can be modified to incorporate new parts. The receivers are just injection molded polymers, meaning a secondary mold can easily be made, the ridges filed off, and non-ridge model receivers cast.

Apart from the new recoil spring designs, have Glock internals really been changed since their inception?

It's not about what glock wants to do, it's about what the buyer wants.

That might be the case, but the buyer isn't always right.

Why does glock have a tabbed safety? Isn't that a pointless safety now that the 320 doesn't have one and it has been so successful?

It's the difference in trigger bars. Glock moves rearward, SIG moves forward. It takes more force to pull the 320 trigger because there's more resistance to overcome.
 
I put a couple hundred more rounds through the sig p320 today, getting used to it. Trigger is cleaner than a glock for sure, that heavy monster slide keeps flip down from hot 357sig loads nicely.

Glock can't sell gen 4 guns in california except to police, because of there you have to submit for each variation crap, massachusetts too I think.

The Gen4 Glocks were a improvement over the gen3 mods, the triggers are better, the recoil spring is an improvement and the different back straps make a lot of difference. There are several militaries using the glock 17 so it does have widespread use world wide. I think the Sig is going to make a fine sidearm for the Army, in some ways its a better gun. Does that mean i'm going to not carry and use my Glocks, hell no. I've got many thousands of rounds through the platform. Will I be equally happy with the Sig, yep.
 
I have not fired the P320 but I have owned and and/or fired a lot of Sig's over the years in many calibers. P7, 226, 229, 220, 230, 1911, have all been great quality and great shooters. I think the P320 was an excellent choice, though I would have preferred the Glock, personally. The P320 makes a lot of sense and is a far better choice than the current issue Beretta. The pistol is fully modular and can be made mission specific, but not only that, there is a version of this pistol that comes standard with an electronic sight (RX).
 
cominolli-safety-installed-in-glock.JPG


Its a free country still in some places anyhow :) obviously their choice but if it was me I think I would have considered adding a thumb safety for a big contract. whats it hurt? Some people want that so give it to them. But they also may not "need" the contract either.
 
Prototypes really don't prove much of anything, other than what the idea was at the time. If there are changes between the prototype and the finished product, usually there's a reason for it.

Then there's companies like the pic posted above where companies have figured out how to do a thumb safety and you know there is a secret bunker glock doesn't talk about that has the template on how to do this and what new parts are needed

We don't really know that yet. There could very well be sleeper legislation that hasn't yet been triggered. New Jersey has a law saying that only smart guns can be sold within the state, but it doesn't go into effect until a smart gun becomes available on the market.

And then there's California and its particular way of doing things. If a manufacturer produces one model of pistol, but supplies it in two different finishes, California counts it as two entirely different models that have to be verified for sale. If Glock were to suddenly produce a model with an external thumb safety, there's little doubt they'd suddenly reclassify the non-thumb safety models as unsafe for private sale, and make them illegal for ownership. Same for DC which basically stole their approach to doing things.

And those are some of the 2 worst states in the nation. A lot of companies now don't even bother sending new models to CA for drop testing because the cost and it's stupid. It's like certain generations of S&Ws being on the handgun roster and some aren't.

If there's "sleeper" registration, then there's nothing you can do about it, it's like the Hughes Amendment of 86. Buy what you want/can now, then get extra later.

California sucks for gun owners, absolutely terrible.

[quote}
Didn't Smith & Wesson do that from the ground up though? Or did they produce only one M&P model in the beginning, and then go about changing its controls for the creation of new models? [/quote]

Ground up, which glock could in one of their 4 generations redesign the insides to be modular....but it's glock


You'd have to ask the FBI about that one. But a removal of thumb ridges doesn't require a significant redesign of internal components, which in turn requires significant research and development into how the internals can be modified to incorporate new parts. The receivers are just injection molded polymers, meaning a secondary mold can easily be made, the ridges filed off, and non-ridge model receivers cast.

It's the Army contract, companies submit guns in hopes of getting approval knowing they could be wasting millions of dollars. S&W did this with the M&P 2.0. Hell Detonics managed to submit a pistol. Didn't FN develop the FNX tactical to surpass military testing when the military started thinking about going back to the .45? Nothing is a given in the gun industry. Sometimes you spend millions in R&D and you don't get a contract. If an anftermarket company can develop a new glock sear cage and sell the whole thump safety kit for $90, then glock can do it much cheaper.

That might be the case, but the buyer isn't always right.

I'm having a Joe Dirt flashback of snakes and sparklers


Apart from the new recoil spring designs, have Glock internals really been changed since their inception?........

.....It's the difference in trigger bars. Glock moves rearward, SIG moves forward. It takes more force to pull the 320 trigger because there's more resistance to overcome.

Not really they haven't changed no, really makes all those "generations" just seem like marketing hype.

And seems like Sig figured out the first time around something glock hasn't with the 320. Don't need a tapped trigger, and they figured out how to make a striker gun that doesn't require the trigger to be pulled to take it apart. glock could think outside of the box, and to be honest if they took the effort, they probably could have came up with a 320 design years ago but glock is glock and they are perfectly happy with what they offer and if you aren't, tough sh*t. It's their mentality
 
Glock like Victorinox is very successful. While there is a small population of users who would like something different, the reality is that the business case just isn't there. Sure, I would love to have a better stainless steel blade in my Spartan but, how many would they actually sell and how much would they cost? Does Glock want to under cut itself making pistols?

There is a reason Sam's Club and Costco offers one size of a product with a single variant of the product inside. Do I want it ... Yes or No? Versus, do I want grape, raspberry, lemon, orange or, mango flavored cough drops with or without honey?
 
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