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Mini Axis - First Impressions

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Refer to Mel Pardue post for background.

Mini Axis

I think Benchamde forgot what mini means, this thing reminds me of the Mini-Me clone of Dr Evil in Austin Powers 2, smaller, but not in every direction evenly. It is overbuilt to my way of thinking. The handle is the exact same thickness as the full size. Exactly. The knife is half as long and just as thick???? Is this thickness demonstrative? The clip is the same size as the full size.

Just like the other Axis locks I have handled, there is very little room for wear in the lock, once the bar moves forward 1/16th of an inch it is going no further. And the action is not as smooth.

The blade is sans recurve.

The clip arrangement is the same as the biggy, both sides butt end.

The lanyard hole is 11/16th" into the grip, so it could interfere with your grip, but then again if anybody buys this knife, I doubt they will use a lanyard on it.


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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

Check out my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/kasperafck.html

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html


 
Marion :

The knife is half as long and just as thick???? Is this thickness demonstrative?
Click to expand...

Saves them from buying/handling multiple stock widths obviously. From an ELU point of view keeping the blade the same thickness as the length decreases significantly is nonfunctional. You could have had a much more efficient cutter that was still as strong laterally as the full size version.

Note for example on the Fällkniven blades the width keeps getting smaller and smaller as the blade length decreases. Not only is the thicker width not needed on the smaller knives, you need a thinner grind to make up for the loss of cutting ability because of the shorter length.

Nice description Marion, sounds like the name was wrong though, it should have been called the Maxi-Axis .

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 01 September 1999).]
 
I hope some knifemakers are reading this.... Scaling down doesn't usually work either. Design a handle to fit the human hand, miniaturize it to half scale or 2/3 scale -- guess what? It doesn't fit the human hand any more ... the user's hand didn't get shrunk in proportion. I like small knives, but too many of them are scale models of bigger knives -- you can tell at a glance without ever having seen the bigger version. A small knife has to be designed from scratch, not just scaled down from a bigger model.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Cougar :

I like small knives, but too many of them are scale models of bigger knives
Click to expand...

Yeah, I recently discussed with Drew the possibility of him making me a small knife (2") blade after noting of late that my utility use tends to focus on the area just in front of the handle (so why have the rest of it). I didn't tell him I didn't want a 2" handle as well, I figured he had the sense to know that.

Of course with folders the issue is a bit more complicated as the folder / handle ratio is not independent - unless of course you don't mind issues like the blade coming out of the handle (4" handle on the 6" VG). But the point is basically as Cougar noted, when differences are introduced you can't consider them independent, you have to think about how they effect the total picture.

For example look at the M2 vs ATS-34 issue in Benchmade, this reflects the exact same design method that created the mini-axis. Lets take a knife in ATS-34 and make an exact duplicate in M2. People then use both and wonder why anyone would want the M2 version as they behave similar if you do side by side cutting tests. Well of course they do - the geometry is indentical. The whole reason to using better steels is that it allows you to change the geometry making a better cutting tool.

As an example of how to do this kind of thing, Spyderco actually deals with this very well varying not only the RC but the actual design to best match the material properties of the steel.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 01 September 1999).]
 
Does the Calypso Jr. fly in the face of the above? Is it a down sized Calypso? Its geometry is excellent.

I was looking forward to the mini axis and waiting for plain uncoated blade to become available. Now I am not so sure. Thanks for the review.
 
I have had mine a couple of weeks now and am please generally but not as ecstatic as I hoped I would be.

I managaed to "blunt" the factory edge cutting up some seasoned pine, as I was having to apply a fair amount of force to to is the clip dug into my hand something cronic (their was a gap of a couple of mm between the clip and the scale when it arrived and needed removing and bending)

Should the clip not be a bit longer so the downward portion of the curve fits into the cut out in the scale?? but I guess it would then interfear with the lock button?

I resharpend it with Joes's 15 & 19 technique and it came up much better than the factory edge. I have just cut through the same piece of wood with a lot less effort and less strain on my hand. It took a reallt good bite into the wood for the size of blade and nice big shavings.

I asked the question avbout the lanyard hole being partially obscured by the clip on the Benchmade Forum and received the folllowing BS reply

"The clip position is centered on the knife because of tolerance issues."

I see no reason why the clip could not be much nearer the but end of the scale if they moved the take down screw at that end. I have found that "pointed but end"digs into my waist quite a bit when carried IWB

I like the solid heft that that the thickness gives this knife as I wanted a fail safe folder (or at least as much as possible)

 
I think I got confused somewhere along the way here. The mini-Axis has the same thickness blade? Not according to the catalog; thickness goes down to 0.100 instead of 0.115. Same width of blade? You can look at the knife and tell that the blade width has decreased. Seems like a good scale-down from these respects. Same thickness of handle. Well, that's a different story, but a matter of opinion. The shorter handle of my BF Native is the same thickness of the handle of my 710, and I like them both. But, I understand that is just opinion. But, I'm still confused about what you guys are saying about blade thickness and/or width.
redface.gif


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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
Here are the specs on the 710 vs 705 (mini)

Blade is thinner .115" vs .100"
all other components are the same.

Other than thickness, the size of the 705 is exactly 3/4 size of the 710.

Many factors effect the thickness reduction. Benchmade choose not to compromise strength and durability to make it thinner. Also as the handle gets thinner it doesn't fit well in most people's hand.

RE: the concerns of the lock wear, unlike a liner lock this lock will have very little wear. All components are hardened steel. I have one of the early prototypes which I have opened and closed as roughly as I can thousands of times and it looks EXACTLY the way it did from day one. If anyone ever "wears" it out then Benchmade's repair dept will take care of it for you, the're excellent.


[This message has been edited by edgeman (edited 02 September 1999).]
 
The handle is the exact same thickness as the full size. Exactly. The knife is half as long and just as thick???? Is this thickness demonstrative? The clip is the same size as the full size
Click to expand...



------------------
Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --Douglas Adams
 
CD, was there supposed to be more to that post???

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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
Yes. Sorry. I think Marion meant that the handle on the mini was as thick as the handle on the fullsize.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
Rick, AKA Edgeman,

It is great to see you here! Are you in any sort of an official capacity? Whether or not, Welcome.


Mike
 
Cliff,

You hit the nail on the head (and it's a nail I've been pounding at for a while). When a knife becomes smaller, all parts to not scale down equally. In biology, this is called allometry, and it's why mice have relatively huge eyes and whales have relatively tiny ones. An eye must be a certain minimum size to work properly, and after it reaches a certain maximum size there is no point to making it larger (gross simplification
wink.gif
). Similarly, human hands stay the same size no matter what knife they are holding, so not all parts of the knife can shrink or enlarge at equal rates when the knife is resized.

I brought this issue up with Sal Glesser and his R&D folks while I was in Golden. I was thrilled that they understood perfectly what I was saying. They refer to the area of the knife where the pivot, lock, and primary grip/index points are as the "cockpit" and they understand the importance of keeping this fairly uniform. Check out a Calypso and Calypso Jr. For about 1" on either side of the pivot the knives are almost identical, though the Calypso has about 1" more handle and 1" blade overall.

Now, some Spydercos (like the Rookie) are just scaled-down models of larger knives and they don't fit average hands at all like their larger counterparts. I don't feel I should discuss the trade-related reasons fro this, but these knives do have a place in the collection of my girlfriend, who has very small hands (she is eagerly hoping for a Mini-Axis). She holds a Rookie in the same grip I use on a Police! Otherwise, though, I agree that "scale model" minis are a waste and we should push for more knives that miniaturize intelligently like the Calypso (to say nothing of knives like the Pegasus and Navigator, which use clever handles to give a full grip on a 2" blade folder).

In the case of the mini-Axis, the lock dictates the size, as the scales must be a full 3/32" to accomodate the milled area housing the omega-springs for the lock, though the liners could be slimmed some and there is no need in either Axis or Mini-Axis for the absurdly thick washers that allow slight lateral play - their purpose is to allow "overtravel" in linerlocks so the detent ball clears the blade when opening or closing.

I've seen a Mini-Axis. I expected it to be very thick, and it was. I liked it nonetheless, but I don't carry knives under 3.5" (especially without holes). As I said, Beth is looking forward to getting one.

-Drew

[This message has been edited by Corduroy (edited 02 September 1999).]
 
To MNH, While it is not part of my regular duties in the engineering dept here at Benchmade, we (eng. group) do read this stuff regulary. We have on many occasions wanted to respond but we are working very hard to produce more, better, faster, etc... We are really pressing the limits of our design & manufacturing skills to bring the finest product to market as possible. Your input means a lot to us all. Keep it up.

PS: feel free to post product suggestions on our site, benchmade.com or you can email me directly. I will try to get back to you ASAP, however my response will usually come after normal working hours.

Thanks; Rick
 
Right after I posted, I thoght of the bencmade leopards. The cub being the more ergonomic and smaller. Again I do not know which came first.

One of my peeves with the knife manafactures is that most seem to have blades that are unecessarily thick. One of may favorite daily carries is an Al Mar Falcon. The blade is thin, faily narrow and long. It is flat ground is an excellent cutter. The Al Mar ultra light line seems to work for all three sizes. I have only the Falcon but I have handled the larger and smaller version and they seem ok ergonomicly. I am not sure if the thickness varies.

One thing mentioned in Marion's post is lanyard holes and how on small knives the grip would be on the lanyard as the handles are short. For me having a lanyard hole is important even if it my hand is placed over the first inch of the lanyard. I often work on grating. Grating has a 1"x4" gaps. I would not want a knife, particularly an open knife, falling thru the grating. It would be bad for the knife and possibly real bad for those below. Also as knives get smaller the clip seems less important. I would not get a knife with out a lanyard hole. It is more important to me than a clip.

I will probably get the mini axis anyway mainly because I like my 710 axis a lot. I may be disappointed if I find thickness to just too much. I have Koncept drop point thats a small knife but with a really thick blade. If it was not for the blade being so thick it would be a great knife.
 
I looked over the Mini Axis again today.

I think the blade is as thin as it can be given the likely abuse by the largest segment of the buying public. And for it's thickness it has good geometry.

But the handles are still too thick to my way of thinking, I may be wrong, but I think they are thicker than the Delica handle. In fact, the liners on the Mini are thicker than on the Dark Star.

Ergonomics wise the knife is fine in my hand, except I would like to see a larger guard like shape.

In quick movements, I missed the stud every so often.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

My site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html

Check out my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/kasperafck.html

 
I think I am going to buy a full size. The full size feels pretty good in pocket and hand, and I like the necessary opening pressure, just right.

One thing that is different about the grip is the openness of it, if feels a good bit longer than it is, I dont know what I think of that. The lack of a more abrupt guard gives me slight pause, but oh well. I am very finicky about handles.

Rick, Thanks for bit about lock wear. Rick, any chance of a AFCK with Axis lock or a redesign of that platform with the Axis and M2? Are Axis available in M2? You may want to check out my review of the Kasper AFCK, link is in my sig file.

All, something I noticed as I looked over the Benchmade line is that almost all their lanyard holes are in the grip space.

------------------
Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

My site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html

Check out my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/kasperafck.html

 
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