Minimalist camping without a fixed blade

I don't either... but I would say everybody chooses its path and will pay the price in the end. The price may be way higher than what you expected, though.
Understanding the logic of experienced people is a valid approach... Endorsing it is a commitment, sort of...
 
Life is full of "what if's" and how many of them you acknowledge defines in many ways what you carry on a hike.
 
22-rimfire said:
Life is full of "what if's" and how many of them you acknowledge defines in many ways what you carry on a hike.
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A realistic "what if" here is catching a crampon on a rock, stumbling and wrecking an ankle bad enough not to be able to walk.

There are no trees here. No feather-sticks to be made. No kindling to be split. No use for a fixed blade knife.

tuckerman-ravine-extreme-skiing-630.jpg


And of course, you don't need crampons to trip on a rock.
Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr


While this is a perilous place, there are tools and techniques you can use to protect an injured hiker: insulated pads, wind-proof bivies, adequate clothing, sleeping bag.

These same techniques can be modified to apply to travel below treeline. This is the thrust of modern LNT techniques. They are centered on stoves and modern "warm when wet" clothing. Hence the feasibility of minimalist camping with no fixed blade, as the OP asked about. This is how 1000s of people complete the big trails (PCT, CDT and AT) every year with no fixed blade. Stoves and modern clothing derived from alpine mountaineering.

A knife is essential for safe backcountry travel.

Realistic knife nuts aspire to match the right knife to the job based on reality. Fixed blade knives are not needed above treeline and using those some LNT techniques below treelines renders them optional, not required.
 
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My biggest concern hiking is falling, twisting ankles, twisting a knee (my latest), or breaking a bone. (More important to me than what knife I have with me.) As I get older, I take less chances with my body. It starts with good footwear. How many times do I see people hiking trails wearing flip flops? Good sandals are okay as long as you understand your toes are exposed to injury.
 
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pinnah said:
A realistic "what if" here is catching a crampon on a rock, stumbling and wrecking an ankle bad enough not to be able to walk.

There are no trees here. No feather-sticks to be made. No kindling to be split. No use for a fixed blade knife.

tuckerman-ravine-extreme-skiing-630.jpg


And of course, you don't need crampons to trip on a rock.
Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr


While this is a perilous place, there are tools and techniques you can use to protect an injured hiker: insulated pads, wind-proof bivies, adequate clothing, sleeping bag.

These same techniques can be modified to apply to travel below treeline. This is the thrust of modern LNT techniques. They are centered on stoves and modern "warm when wet" clothing. Hence the feasibility of minimalist camping with no fixed blade, as the OP asked about. This is how 1000s of people complete the big trails (PCT, CDT and AT) every year with no fixed blade. Stoves and modern clothing derived from alpine mountaineering.

A knife is essential for safe backcountry travel.

Realistic knife nuts aspire to match the right knife to the job based on reality. Fixed blade knives are not needed above treeline and using those some LNT techniques below treelines renders them optional, not required.
Click to expand...

If you know anything you know that being at the top of a range is just for saying you have done it. You immediately need to get back down to below the tree line for shelter. Storms roll through and the lightning is scary when there is no place to hide. Some storms roll right into the top of the mountain and you are in the cloud that has lightning. It is a scary feeling when you can feel the crackle in your gear from static energy. I really don't care what you take, whether it is a small fixed blade or a small hatchet, but it is always good insurance. I have found that most people that complain about weight can stand to loose a few extra pounds that they complain about. Funny thing is I have met few people that do not carry a fixed blade. In fact I can't think of one serious mountaineer that doesn't. I guess experience varies.
 
It is interesting seeing this debate played out here. I've only ever seen it in Ultralite forums where LNT is gospel. To be fair, it often starts with a knife guy trolling by asking whether to buy a Gransfors or a Wetterlings for backpacking, which provokes an understandably distressed/angry response from the LNT crowd. But even so those threads frequently devolve to express accusations of cowardice that are generally applied to the carrying of fixed blades, let alone axes and the like: "why are you so afraid of nature," "I pity you for your fear causing you to need to carry a machete," "I prefer to let my knowledge and intelligence get me through rather than give in to fear," etc.

My reaction has always been: well, yeah--all contingency planning is somewhat driven by "fear," if you want to get down to brass tacks. I can handle the 6 oz. that a puukko and sheath add to my gear, along with the further half-pound or so that a small fire kit adds with it. And, frankly, as meth production in the woods around where I live continues to carry on unchecked, I'm starting to think the handgun idea isn't so farfetched, either. But, then, I'm generally hiking and backpacking with two kids and a wife these days, so "minimalist" is long gone from the picture, and contingencies loom larger in my mind.
 
Kataphraktos said:
It is interesting seeing this debate played out here. I've only ever seen it in Ultralite forums where LNT is gospel. To be fair, it often starts with a knife guy trolling by asking whether to buy a Gransfors or a Wetterlings for backpacking, which provokes an understandably distressed/angry response from the LNT crowd. But even so those threads frequently devolve to express accusations of cowardice that are generally applied to the carrying of fixed blades, let alone axes and the like: "why are you so afraid of nature," "I pity you for your fear causing you to need to carry a machete," "I prefer to let my knowledge and intelligence get me through rather than give in to fear," etc.

My reaction has always been: well, yeah--all contingency planning is somewhat driven by "fear," if you want to get down to brass tacks. I can handle the 6 oz. that a puukko and sheath add to my gear, along with the further half-pound or so that a small fire kit adds with it. And, frankly, as meth production in the woods around where I live continues to carry on unchecked, I'm starting to think the handgun idea isn't so far fetched, either. But, then, I'm generally hiking and backpacking with two kids and a wife these days, so "minimalist" is long gone from the picture, and contingencies loom larger in my mind.
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Clandestine meth production is down these days due to the cheaper Mexican stuff (super labs) that is being brought into the country.
 
Cobalt said:
If you know anything you know that being at the top of a range is just for saying you have done it. You immediately need to get back down to below the tree line for shelter. Storms roll through and the lightning is scary when there is no place to hide. Some storms roll right into the top of the mountain and you are in the cloud that has lightning. It is a scary feeling when you can feel the crackle in your gear from static energy. I really don't care what you take, whether it is a small fixed blade or a small hatchet, but it is always good insurance.
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I admit to not following your logic here. Many dangers above treeline, none of which are really addressed with a fixed blade.

Below treeline, we're back to the same basic issues. LNT techniques are certainly well enough proven at this point.

I have found that most people that complain about weight can stand to loose a few extra pounds that they complain about. Funny thing is I have met few people that do not carry a fixed blade. In fact I can't think of one serious mountaineer that doesn't. I guess experience varies.
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Indeed.
 
If you study A&E departments and "camping" injuries then some of the big ones are: incorrect use of an axe, saw and knife; injuries from wearing sandles/flipflops; twisted angles and such, sunstroke and dehydration; very occasionally exposure; rashes and insect bites.
Basically a lot of people just haven't a clue and think they know what they are doing from watching y tube, or that they just have a natural ability. Frankly there are skills to be learned from all the different outdoorsy genre.

The experienced Alpinists I know might carry a SAK and a Spyderco (to cut an orange at the top of a mountain, or to cut a rope).
The experienced foresters I know might carry some sort of small knife be it a small fixed, a multi-tool or a folder. (They have bigger tools for work).
Fellrunners no knife at all. (They rely on reporting back).
Hunters then a hunting knife for the grallock.
Bushcrafters a toolbox.
Military, then fewer and fewer sport the classic combat knife.

I don't know about you but I live in a house. When I venture further a field I take what I know I will need and best suited for that particular environment. As said earlier my bottom line is do I have enough to spend an unplanned night out. I certainly don't live all tooled up for the "just in case" Armageddon. When my son traveled around the world aged 19 I ensured he had the insurance to call a helicopter anywhere. He never went too far off the beaten track but certainly ended up in some remote places; he carried a SAK. If he needed more he would have asked a local.
Expeditions beyond civilisation are organised and planned accordingly for. Generally they are a team effort. Over confident individuals are all too often the ones who get themselves in trouble. Or stubborn I know better. Or those who are just thick.
Experience helps, and to get the experience takes time and asking others with some. The right specialised equipment goes a long way to having a successful trip, but its experience that counts.

Take what you feel you need. Next time out you might have a different take on it all. You will have gained more experience, until you get it just about right.
 
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GREENJACKET said:
Frankly there are skills to be learned from all the different outdoorsy genre.

The experienced Alpinists I know might carry a SAK and a Spyderco (to cut an orange at the top of a mountain, or to cut a rope).
The experienced foresters I know might carry some sort of small knife be it a small fixed, a multi-tool or a folder. (They have bigger tools for work).
Fellrunners no knife at all. (They rely on reporting back).
Hunters then a hunting knife for the grallock.
Bushcrafters a toolbox.
Military, then fewer and fewer sport the classic combat knife.
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This entirely agrees with my experience. I particularly agree with the bolded bits.
 
pinnah said:
I admit to not following your logic here. Many dangers above treeline, none of which are really addressed with a fixed blade.

Below treeline, we're back to the same basic issues. LNT techniques are certainly well enough proven at this point.



Indeed.
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My point was that above tree line is not where you want to be for very long. You are assuming that all you do is hike above tree line your entire life and thus no need for an edged tool. that is not how it happens. Yeah, if I spend my life hiking sand dunes I have no need for a blade of any kind. Duh.

Below tree line, you do what is best for you and how you feel it is necessary. You think your way I think mine. You may think me a fool for carrying something you feel is not needed. I certainly think you are a fool for not doing so. Two schools of thought.
 
When I started backpacking, there were no waist belts and no well-padded (or even padded at all) shoulder straps. The pack-board was the height of technology. Backpacking involved a certain amount of unavoidable pain. Then Kelty rediscovered the weight-bearing waist belt (invented by a Union army doc but rejected by the same military bureaucracy that rejected the repeating rifle). As waist belts and well-padded shoulder straps became the norm - and improved, more and more people backpacked.

Also, when I started there was no nylon to speak of and no polyester batting. Sleeping rolls meant wool blankets and tents and tarps were cotton. My first personal two-man tent weighed 14 pounds with no floor - not counting the pole (hiking staff) or pegs. beyond just packs, gear got better and lighter.


I have found three statistical studies of wilderness fatalities: western U.S. park wilderness; New Hampshire SAR; Arizona wilderness areas. They show that wilderness fatalities are about 25% heart attacks, 25% drowning, 25% falls, and 25% all other causes.

While I can imagine facts under which I would not carry a fixed-blade knife, I have yet to encounter those facts and routinely carry a 3.5-4" fixed-blade, light folding pruning saw (usually the Gerber); and a SAK for fine work, tweezers, screw-drivers, and scissors.

YMMV - and that's the critical part. If you don't agree with me, that does not make you wrong. Nor does it make me wrong.
 
A small folder could be enough many times, but carrying a robust fixed knife is always a good idea, since it's obviously more reliable at any circumstances. The cases when I carried only a SAK I'd rather have a fixed blade as well, even if the Victorinox did just fine.
so for a "minimalist" way I'd always choose a fixed knife over a folder.
 
GREENJACKET said:
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There is no place for a Junglas above the tree line,
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Around here, if you are above the tree line it means you are flying under your own power.
That means you are Superman...and Superman can get by without a Junglas.

Of course, he's an alien parasite benefitting by sucking power from our yellow sun, but that a whole different discussion. :D
 
Actually, the piece of camping equipment I could use and don't have is a car.

I wouldn't be typing this right now if I did.
I wanted to go to the woods, but both people I know with cars in this city are busy in other cities right now, or sick. :(
So I sit here, surrounded by fixed blades, folders, a sword and an axe, but no woodsiness whatsoever. :(

I do have a nice coffee to sip on, but it would taste better in the woods...with a fire and a fixed blade knife. :)
And some fire-roasted meat.
 
Thomas Linton, I once went through my late fathers Alpine Touring kit when ski skins were real Seal skin. Sleeping bags were down, and wool jumpers and leather boots were the norm. They trekked from mountain hut to mountain hut. They took less kit, just basic and useful, but it was heavier. The routes were less technical and distances shorter compared to today. The dangers and hard graft were the same. Just like any well planned adventure.

I've done extreme cold, wind, and wet; and shelter is the priority. A fire would never catch in horizontal sleet. And if you haven't got the shelter/tent/bothy with you you aren't going to be able to build one. Lee side of a stone wall with the sheep might be your best bet. Visibility might not be adequate to get off the hill. Correct kit is a necessity, and why every year some idiot get it wrong.

For Canada then I'd have a Small Forest Axe over a Junglas.
(I do seem to be giving the Junglas a hard time. I recognise its probably one of the better ones of its class. I'm even attracted to the theory behind the concept, but in practice there are for the weight more efficient combinations. To me they are a truck knife, or at least vehicle mounted, and not the best man portable when there are better selections to be had. In truth most of the whopper choppers I've come across aren't very good.)

If you are in the snow then maybe a snow shovel might be in order. Snow well thats another list of needs. As is high altitude.

And a light sabre beats them all!

stabman you might like my truck:
IMG_3976-1.jpg
 
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