Minimalist camping without a fixed blade

jackknife said:
Okay, I gotta ask the question that either hasn't come up or is like the gorilla in the room that nobody talks about.

Here goes; so a fixed blade knife is not needed above tree line. Okay, I get that. Nothing but rock up there, no sticks to burn, logs to baton, jungle to hack through, nada. You have your trusty little stove to heat food and drink. Great.

But…how are you getting to tree line? Are you trekking in from the the great sandy desert side? Are you being dropped in by helicopter? Or is Scotty equipped with the right coordinates to beam you up there?

You are not walking through any woods, forest, fields, swamp, jungle, sprawling metropolis or any kind of terrain that just may call for a fixed blade at any time for a ton of reasons?

Please tell me where this easily accessed tree line is so I go hike it with just a trusty peanut in my pocket.
Click to expand...

Heya Carl. Great question.

The aplinist and the woodsman are the same in that they both rely on their equipment and their skill to stay alive. Tools and technique are both critical.

My daughter is learning to rock climb and as a part of that process and in a controlled environment, she learning how to fall off the rock and to rely on the ropes and her belayer and also to react to the fall and to swing back towards the rock. Related, you may recall that Yvonne Chouinard was forced to sell Chouinard Equipment to his employees, thereby creating Black Diamond Equipment due to a wrongful death lawsuit involving a climber who secured his Chouinard climbing harness incorrectly, fell and then fell out of his harness.

From the alpinist point of view, the adjective "survival" associated with any piece of equipment is redundant because pretty much everything in the minimalist kit is about survival. When I hike above treeline my survival mitts have survival wrist cords, because taking a mitt and loosing it in 40mph (or more) winds can be lethal.

The LNT approach to travel below treeline is the same.

Here is a shot of my gear on a trip a while back in October. 25-35F, moderate winds and rain/snow mix.

IMG_1618 by Pinnah, on Flickr

I need to run to work right now and will come back and provide more detailed later about how I bet my life on my survival tarp, survival stove, survival sleep system and survival clothing system, just as a woodsman may rely on a survival knife.
 
GREENJACKET said:
I don't, and not.

My children were allowed to use sharp knives as soon as they showed enough responsibility and had the dexterity to do so. Given instruction and first aid course to go with it.

I used to nap flint when very young. I got ok at it but nothing special. Flint is really sharp, if brittle; frustrating to work with or what. Fine on fish and game. Want to cut a tree down with no tools, use a fire around the base.
The neighbours forester taught me my forestry skills and how to snare and fish. Lofty Wiseman my military survival, and a friend and I taught Ray Mears how to shoot before he was famous. Don't know Bear Gryls at all but endured the same interrogation course he went through. I'm older so was no more than a Cold War Warrior. I'm not groovy on heights unless with skis on. I've done a lot of hunting and shooting.
But my interest on the outdoors remains strong, and the knives always an enjoyable hobby. Seen some changes over the years in fashions and taste. Haven't blogged here for a while but remember when Cliff Stamp first signed up.

Just happy my children have taken to it all too.

I really have to go and get some work done.
Click to expand...

Actually Cliff signed up in 1998 along with me. We moved over from the old knife forums when it split into two forums, this being one. We were all also on rec knives.
 
pinnah said:
Heya Carl. Great question.

The aplinist and the woodsman are the same in that they both rely on their equipment and their skill to stay alive. Tools and technique are both critical.

My daughter is learning to rock climb and as a part of that process and in a controlled environment, she learning how to fall off the rock and to rely on the ropes and her belayer and also to react to the fall and to swing back towards the rock. Related, you may recall that Yvonne Chouinard was forced to sell Chouinard Equipment to his employees, thereby creating Black Diamond Equipment due to a wrongful death lawsuit involving a climber who secured his Chouinard climbing harness incorrectly, fell and then fell out of his harness.

From the alpinist point of view, the adjective "survival" associated with any piece of equipment is redundant because pretty much everything in the minimalist kit is about survival. When I hike above treeline my survival mitts have survival wrist cords, because taking a mitt and loosing it in 40mph (or more) winds can be lethal.

The LNT approach to travel below treeline is the same.

Here is a shot of my gear on a trip a while back in October. 25-35F, moderate winds and rain/snow mix.

IMG_1618 by Pinnah, on Flickr

I need to run to work right now and will come back and provide more detailed later about how I bet my life on my survival tarp, survival stove, survival sleep system and survival clothing system, just as a woodsman may rely on a survival knife.
Click to expand...


Naaa! Uh-uh, no.

We're taking camping and you bring up rock climbing into it. Again, chainging the subject off on a tangent. Like talking about motorcycling and bringing up skateboarding. Yeah, they both use wheels of some sort.

Back country camping is a whole other animal than alpine climbing and skiing. And if you are in the back country, I don't think you'll find a nice porch with treated lumber surface to make camp on, so you may have to make a bough bed. That's gonna be hard work with a little SAK.

Go use what you want, it's a free country. Just stop making silly statements that paint you onto a corner. I've been backpacking and camping for over 50 years, and I've never been in danger from carrying a pound of extra weight. But if am out someplace and get bit confused about which way I'm supposed to be going, and night is getting close, I like having something in my pack to make what I need in a very short time, to include the processing of wood for man's oldest means of keeping warm; FIRE. I like the ability to make and to have the tools to make a nice fire AND shelter if the doo-doo hits the fan, and sometimes it does.

Carry a SAK classic or a machete. YMMV. For me, I make the choice for a large blade.

If you insist on painting yourself into a corner, use a roller instead of a brush. It's faster and you'll get it over with quicker.
 
GREENJACKET said:
BladeScout, a bit like Znapschatz then.
Click to expand...
Not familiar with him. Had to google him - seems he is a forum member here, on EDCforums edc. Not familiar with his chopper philosophy - linky pooh?

GREENJACKET said:
Definitely room for this scale of cutter/chopper in anyones blade armoury before going to an axe.
Click to expand...
Most certainly. Very happy with my compact compact chopper - ist often the one I reach for over my 'beard hawk.' As both were made by my friend and knifemaker, Lars, I dont think he'll be too pissed, that I (sometimes) prefer one over the other.

All respect for Beckers - they are fine durable tools at an affordable price and I have several excellent knives from the company i.e BK5 & BK15 etc (more power to them) and I was about to buy a Becker BK9 as many rave about these. That is, until I tried one. Handle too beefy for me and I didnt agree with the in-line handle.I used a buddys BK9 for chopping and it seemed to put a strain on my hand and wrist very fast hence I had a chopper made with a slightly downwards turned sabre handle - I can work with the custom chopper for hours without fatigue. An excellent design which will not only cut but chop well sized limbs with ease as long as one should want to.
 
pinnah said:
Heya Carl. Great question.

The aplinist and the woodsman are the same in that they both rely on their equipment and their skill to stay alive. Tools and technique are both critical.

My daughter is learning to rock climb and as a part of that process and in a controlled environment, she learning how to fall off the rock and to rely on the ropes and her belayer and also to react to the fall and to swing back towards the rock. Related, you may recall that Yvonne Chouinard was forced to sell Chouinard Equipment to his employees, thereby creating Black Diamond Equipment due to a wrongful death lawsuit involving a climber who secured his Chouinard climbing harness incorrectly, fell and then fell out of his harness.

From the alpinist point of view, the adjective "survival" associated with any piece of equipment is redundant because pretty much everything in the minimalist kit is about survival. When I hike above treeline my survival mitts have survival wrist cords, because taking a mitt and loosing it in 40mph (or more) winds can be lethal.

The LNT approach to travel below treeline is the same.

Here is a shot of my gear on a trip a while back in October. 25-35F, moderate winds and rain/snow mix.

IMG_1618 by Pinnah, on Flickr

I need to run to work right now and will come back and provide more detailed later about how I bet my life on my survival tarp, survival stove, survival sleep system and survival clothing system, just as a woodsman may rely on a survival knife.
Click to expand...
In short you basically circumvented the question ...
 
BladeScout said:
All respect for Beckers - they are fine durable tools at an affordable price and I have several excellent knives from the company i.e BK5 & BK15 etc (more power to them) and I was about to buy a Becker BK9 as many rave about these. That is, until I tried one. Handle too beefy for me and I didnt agree with the in-line handle.I used a buddys BK9 for chopping and it seemed to put a strain on my hand and wrist very fast hence I had a chopper made with a slightly downwards turned sabre handle - I can work with the custom chopper for hours without fatigue. An excellent design which will not only cut but chop well sized limbs with ease as long as one should want to.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you didn't like the handle of the BK9, when you like the BK5 (same handle scales, same tang thickness, so the handle should be "identical"). Somewhat differently, I actually added liners under my BK9's scales to increase the girth. The handle felt too small for my hands until I did that. Maybe our hands are wildly different in size? Or maybe its just preference?

If you get the chance to try the BK9 again, maybe try this. When I chop with my BK9, I slide my hand back on the handle, and usually end up chopping with 2-3 fingers holding on (I use the lanyard style that goes around the thumb, and around the outside of the bottom/end of my hand, so the knife can't physically slide out of my hand unless I let go). This gives the knife another inch or two of "length", increasing the tip speed/penetration. It also lets the blade rotate some in my hand after the "snap" of the cut, giving it a bit of that angle you're talking about. It also reduces vibration, etc. I don't know if I've ever chopped for "hours" with mine like this, but I have done at least 90 minutes on more than one occasion (without gloves), and never got cramps, blisters, numb hands, or anything like that. Just a thought in case you ever try one again.

Also, you might like the BK21 or BK4. Both have the canted handles you're talking about. The BK21 in particular should be quite the chopper. Its a modern material/design Khukri with a 13in blade.

That said, one of the main things I like about the BK9 (which, is one of my only "camp" sized knives, not for minimal camping like this thread is about), is not so much that it is a "chopper". It can, and does do well at chopping, but as you said, I wouldn't choose to chop with it all day if I had another more dedicated option. Instead, I find that it is surprisingly good at being an all around knife. Many larger "chopper" knives are fairly akward to use for knife tasks, and I've not had that same problem with the BK9. I regularly featherstick, make tent pegs, etc with the BK9, and it does just fine. I've not used the Skrama that has been talked about a lot in this thread, but it sounds like its liked for roughly the same reasons.

But maybe I've just learned how to use that particular tool :/.

Also, do you have photos of the custom compact chopper? I always like to see custom designs :).
 
jackknife said:
Naaa! Uh-uh, no.

We're taking camping and you bring up rock climbing into it. Again, chainging the subject off on a tangent. Like talking about motorcycling and bringing up skateboarding. Yeah, they both use wheels of some sort.

Back country camping is a whole other animal than alpine climbing and skiing. And if you are in the back country, I don't think you'll find a nice porch with treated lumber surface to make camp on, so you may have to make a bough bed. That's gonna be hard work with a little SAK.

Go use what you want, it's a free country. Just stop making silly statements that paint you onto a corner. I've been backpacking and camping for over 50 years, and I've never been in danger from carrying a pound of extra weight. But if am out someplace and get bit confused about which way I'm supposed to be going, and night is getting close, I like having something in my pack to make what I need in a very short time, to include the processing of wood for man's oldest means of keeping warm; FIRE. I like the ability to make and to have the tools to make a nice fire AND shelter if the doo-doo hits the fan, and sometimes it does.

Carry a SAK classic or a machete. YMMV. For me, I make the choice for a large blade.

If you insist on painting yourself into a corner, use a roller instead of a brush. It's faster and you'll get it over with quicker.
Click to expand...

This 100%. It sure was awesome that he found that platform naturally growing in the woods for him to lash his tarp to and have a nice surface for his ultralight sleep system. LOL

Absolutely absurd at this point.
 
Last edited:
Thomas Linton said:
Celer et Audax
Click to expand...
Swift & Bold, Swift & Bold ;)

LadeScout: Znapschatz see post 267, basically what a Skrama does.

Jens Schuetz, spooning..ask your wife.
Not spooning but close enough; stalking somewhere in the Highlands of Scotland, above the treeline:
IMG_1561%202.jpeg


Cobalt, yup, Cliff Stamp, it was last century. We are showing our age :D
 
ocnLogan said:
Interesting that you didn't like the handle of the BK9, when you like the BK5 (same handle scales, same tang thickness, so the handle should be "identical"). Somewhat differently, I actually added liners under my BK9's scales to increase the girth. The handle felt too small for my hands until I did that. Maybe our hands are wildly different in size? Or maybe its just preference?

If you get the chance to try the BK9 again, maybe try this. When I chop with my BK9, I slide my hand back on the handle, and usually end up chopping with 2-3 fingers holding on (I use the lanyard style that goes around the thumb, and around the outside of the bottom/end of my hand, so the knife can't physically slide out of my hand unless I let go). This gives the knife another inch or two of "length", increasing the tip speed/penetration. It also lets the blade rotate some in my hand after the "snap" of the cut, giving it a bit of that angle you're talking about. It also reduces vibration, etc. I don't know if I've ever chopped for "hours" with mine like this, but I have done at least 90 minutes on more than one occasion (without gloves), and never got cramps, blisters, numb hands, or anything like that. Just a thought in case you ever try one again.

Also, you might like the BK21 or BK4. Both have the canted handles you're talking about. The BK21 in particular should be quite the chopper. Its a modern material/design Khukri with a 13in blade.

That said, one of the main things I like about the BK9 (which, is one of my only "camp" sized knives, not for minimal camping like this thread is about), is not so much that it is a "chopper". It can, and does do well at chopping, but as you said, I wouldn't choose to chop with it all day if I had another more dedicated option. Instead, I find that it is surprisingly good at being an all around knife. Many larger "chopper" knives are fairly akward to use for knife tasks, and I've not had that same problem with the BK9. I regularly featherstick, make tent pegs, etc with the BK9, and it does just fine. I've not used the Skrama that has been talked about a lot in this thread, but it sounds like its liked for roughly the same reasons.

But maybe I've just learned how to use that particular tool :/.

Also, do you have photos of the custom compact chopper? I always like to see custom designs :).
Click to expand...
Ive never had a chance to work with the 5. Its still waiting for me to give it a workout. I far prefer the handles on the 15, 17, et al.

Ive used the 15 quite a lot and really really like it.

I use a size large glove, so the handles really shouldnt be too large for my mitts.

I believe the issue is else where:

Im not keen on the in-line handle on a chopper.

The chopper I had made, has a sabre handle/slightly downwards turned handle and that makes all the difference for me. I repeat, for ME. YMMW. I hardly experience any fatigue with the chopper - just a keen desire to chop some more, LOL. IMO the sign of a well made chopper.

I might be in the minority, I realize that, as many rave about the 9. And again, Im FOR Beckers and quite like Ethan Beckers participation on the Becker forum. They make some nice stuff. Im just the only person who happens to not getting along with the 9 as I prefer a downwards sloping handle on a chopper.

Just my opinion. Cant think of any more caveats, so hopefully I got a slew of Becker9 fans off my back;-)
 
ocnLogan said:
Also, do you have photos of the custom compact chopper? I always like to see custom designs :).
Click to expand...
Ask and you shall receive:D
I like working with this a lot. Good thing too, as its mine ;-)
Best chopper, that Ive ever used.
Asked my knifemaker buddy, Lars, to make me a compact chopper that Id want to bring along instead of having a bigger chopper and deliberating whether or not to bring it. He came through - and then some! :-)
Not a big chopper but it punches far above its weight.
As Greenjacket might say - Im well chuffed! :-)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...per-Chopper-80-CrV-2?highlight=custom+chopper
 
BladeScout said:
Ive never had a chance to work with the 5. Its still waiting for me to give it a workout. I far prefer the handles on the 15, 17, et al.

Ive used the 15 quite a lot and really really like it.

I use a size large glove, so the handles really shouldnt be too large for my mitts.

I believe the issue is else where:

Im not keen on the in-line handle on a chopper.

The chopper I had made, has a sabre handle/slightly downwards turned handle and that makes all the difference for me. I repeat, for ME. YMMW. I hardly experience any fatigue with the chopper - just a keen desire to chop some more, LOL. IMO the sign of a well made chopper.

I might be in the minority, I realize that, as many rave about the 9. And again, Im FOR Beckers and quite like Ethan Beckers participation on the Becker forum. They make some nice stuff. Im just the only person who happens to not getting along with the 9 as I prefer a downwards sloping handle on a chopper.

Just my opinion. Cant think of any more caveats, so hopefully I got a slew of Becker9 fans off my back;-)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a BK9 apologist :p. Wasn't my intention, but can see how that could have been the takeaway from my post. I was just mentioning a few things in case you ever handle one again. So I think you've got at least this BK9 fan off your back :thumbup:.

Personal preference for/against specific features doesn't bother me in the least. Like you, I enjoy them, but they are far from the only brand I own. And most seem to really enjoy the 5, so I'm sure you'll like it (especially if you like the 15). Myself, I've discovered I'm not keen on choils, so even though the 5 is such an amazing deal, I just can't bring myself to buy one. So I totally understand :).

And, back on the topic of the thread. I've said before, for "backpacking" style camping, I wouldn't be bringing it. Not enough need, and too much weight. If the OP meant the "bring a tool and a wool blanket" style minimalist camping, then I probably would, as its pretty well rounded.

EDIT: I see the custom chopper you made. Looks great :). I actually expected a bit more of a cant to the handle from your description. And the extra mass from that tip design I'm sure helps quite a bit. But as you said, it is that same general ~9in blade range that the Skrama/BK9 knives are that make them pretty useful compact (for a chopper) all-arounders that are handy around camp.

Looks great sir :).
 
From our different paths and experiences we have all three ended up with very similar styled tools. Funny that :rolleyes:
Maybe because we use the stuff :D
IMGP7461.jpg
 
Last edited:
I don't camp without a fixed blade. Going light = Lionsteel M2 or CRK Nyala.
If I don't carry a fixed blade for a hike, I have my Southard AVO with me.
 
Quiet said:
This 100%. It sure was awesome that he found that platform naturally growing in the woods for him to lash his tarp to and have a nice surface for his ultralight sleep system. LOL

Absolutely absurd at this point.
Click to expand...

He can answer the question directly but if I am correct, that pic is taken in the Whites of NH. They have some remote locations where the AMC (Appalachian Mtn Club) has set up platforms and the occasional shelter. They are typically a bit below the tree line and near water sources. They help minimize negative impact on the environment by offering a place for hikers / campers to drop a tent or improvise a shelter with minimal damage to the environment. I've always looked at them as "nice-to-haves" if my trips take me near them and they are empty. It means camp set up is easier and less impactful.
 
ocnLogan said:
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a BK9 apologist :p. Wasn't my intention, but can see how that could have been the takeaway from my post. I was just mentioning a few things in case you ever handle one again. So I think you've got at least this BK9 fan off your back :thumbup:.

Personal preference for/against specific features doesn't bother me in the least. Like you, I enjoy them, but they are far from the only brand I own. And most seem to really enjoy the 5, so I'm sure you'll like it (especially if you like the 15). Myself, I've discovered I'm not keen on choils, so even though the 5 is such an amazing deal, I just can't bring myself to buy one. So I totally understand :).

And, back on the topic of the thread. I've said before, for "backpacking" style camping, I wouldn't be bringing it. Not enough need, and too much weight. If the OP meant the "bring a tool and a wool blanket" style minimalist camping, then I probably would, as its pretty well rounded.

EDIT: I see the custom chopper you made. Looks great :). I actually expected a bit more of a cant to the handle from your description. And the extra mass from that tip design I'm sure helps quite a bit. But as you said, it is that same general ~9in blade range that the Skrama/BK9 knives are that make them pretty useful compact (for a chopper) all-arounders that are handy around camp.

Looks great sir :).
Click to expand...
No no, you didnt come across as an apologist at all - all is good:thumbup:
The caveats posted was more of a pre-emptive strike on account of the massive BK9 fan base out there. I like Beckers, the 9 just didnt agree with me at all.

I dig choils on some knives, on others not so much. I can take them or leave them.

As you mention in the spirit of the thread, on some outings a chopper is simply not needed, on other occasions they are. But as one member said in this thread, we like our knives and we like to bring them along.

Why on earth be on a knife forum, if one was static in ones taste and only liked ....say one cheapo knife and a tool and only ever posted that.
Most here mature in their tastes and/or change tastes and try out other knives. If we all only ever posted the same cheapo combo, the forum would die fast.

Thanks for the kind words in regards to the chopper.
 
GREENJACKET said:
From our different paths and experiences we have all three ended up with very similar styled tools. Funny that :rolleyes:
Maybe because we use the stuff :D
IMGP7461.jpg
Click to expand...
Agreed:thumbup:
The chopper my friend made for me happens to work incredibly well for me. I could not wish for a better implement for doing what it does.
That being said, had I not had that made, Id have bought a Skrama.

I wouldnt hesitate to recommend that to somebody asking for a production chopper. They give it quite a workout too on the site mentioned earlier - not just in regards to cutting/slicing but also chopping.

Great value for money IMO. Quite like their knives in the same vein as well. I likewise try hard to withstand the lure of those.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top