Minimalist camping without a fixed blade

Gloves, depends how soft your hands are, after a week or two they harden up and become pretty bullet proof.

My skin likes to fall off.
I used to work in machining, and would build up huge callouses...that would then decide they wanted to get torn off.
Sanding them down helped some, but every so often my skin would decide it wanted to fall off anyway. :D
 
Hand moisturiser. Don't let the callouses get too big, don't let your hands crack. Same with the soles of your feet when going bare foot.
I'm pretty soft now. Don't do bare feet unless on soft sand or by a pool. Rivers and stuff I use trainers under water.
SAK have tweezers to get splinters out, they are pretty good. The scissors are good too.

I never leave home without lip-salve, hate it if I haven't got any. (Not as good as vaseline for firelighting).
 
Stabman, my Dad had a similar problem and he discovered it was basically athlete's foot. At the time, the doctors eventually gave him some new drug (pill) and it cleared it all up to normal soft skin within a month or so. This was like 20 years ago. He used to cut the skin off his feet and hands with his pocket knife. It was thick. He had this problem for years and years.
 
Stabman, my Dad had a similar problem and he discovered it was basically athlete's foot. At the time, the doctors eventually gave him some new drug (pill) and it cleared it all up to normal soft skin within a month or so. This was like 20 years ago. He used to cut the skin off his feet and hands with his pocket knife. It was thick. He had this problem for years and years.

Since I quit machining, the skin on my hands hasn't had the thickening issue so much. :)
My skin wasn't really cut out for that job, and I rather hated it anyway.

Some people just have skin that gets torn easier, too.
Look at Oleg Taktarov in old UFC fights...bleeding all over the place seemed to almost be part of his strategy. :D
 
Hey Carl,

I didn't bring up the roped climbing example to change the subject but rather to highlight the mindset used for modern, minimalist LNT campers. A modern LNT camper bets their life on their gear in the same way as rock climber trusts their rope or harness.

You asked how somebody like me deals with issues when below treeeline, so I'm trying to answer you, not convince you. I'll discuss how I use the various parts of my kit (some shown in that picture). For each and everyone of them, you can dismiss them and ask, what I would do that item were to be lost or broken?

The answer is just the same as when we ask the woodsman what happens when he looses or breaks his big fixed blade. First, don't loose it. Second, have good enough skill and technique to minimize the chance of breaking it. And third, select gear that is well proven and unlikely to break, even when you screw up.

If we all here are knife nuts (and I certainly consider myself one), it is fair to say that LNT campers are gear nuts. They obsess over all or most of their gear like we obsess over our knives because their safety relies on it.

You may not be convinced and that is certainly your right. I will only add that thousands upon thousands of people use these techniques every year and in lousy conditions and harsh environments, so I don't see it as credible any longer to say they are unsafe.

SHELTER - I always carry at least one form of shelter (emergency bivy), usually 2 (tarp or tent) and when snow camping or in crappy weather 3 (full bivy to be used under a tarp). A worst case scenario for me is a day hike in which a hiker goes down injured, forcing us to provide emergency shelter overnight. Building a shelter is practical in New England only at lower elevations below 2500' and even then, is an incredibly time and calorie consuming effort. Better to just use an emergency bivy to create a "wolf den" type debris shelter, which doesn't demand tools.

SLEEP SYSTEM - A sleeping pad is used to insulated from cold from below. The picture I provided was taken in October, which is about the last time I'll rely on an inflatable pad. I can easily rely on a combination of my pack and extra clothing to survive a night with a failed pad without needing to resort to making a bough bed. Also, bough beds aren't really something we can rely on at lower elevation below 2500' since those are hardwoods like maple and beech. Starting in December I'll add a closed cell pad which, while bulky, can't be destroyed by crampons or ski edges.

I always carry my sleeping bag in a compactor bag, rain or shine. This is to ensure that even a dunking in a river won't soak the bag. On winter day hikes or day skis, a single 20f bag will typically get carried as a part of community gear.

STOVE - For the LNT camper, the stove is the fire. The limitation is how much fuel the party can carry, but it's pretty easy to carry enough fuel for trips up to a week long. Realistically, I don't do trips longer than that and for long distance hikers, they resupply fuel just as they resupply food.

The stove in the picture is a Trangia alcohol stove which has no moving parts. The other stove I'll carry in the winter is the Svea 123, which I think is the most reliable white gas stoves. I've never had this stove fail to light and function in 30 years of use. I carry a spare fuel cap, as it is about the only thing that could conceivably need to be field serviced.

I should mention that I find cooking with wood to be something that adds risk when doing big miles in cold wet conditions. It's not uncommon to get to a camp cold and tired and harvesting and processing wood requires additional calorie output and involves sharp objects. With a stove, I can have hot drinks available for team members in a matter of a few minutes and have had to do that on a few occasions when a team member was beginning to slide into the long stare zone.

CLOTHING SYSTEM - My approach to clothing, particularly in the wet shoulder seasons is very much inspired by the Buffalo Clothing Pertex and Pile systems from Scotland. Chris Townsend writes about it in his very good book. In this approach, it is assumed that all of your trail clothing will be we while you are hiking. The trick is focus on staying warm while on the trail, not dry.

Dry camp clothing is kept with the sleeping bag in a water tight bag and not used until shelter is established. I've twice been on winter trips on which a team member went into a river, one to his hips the other to his knees and both times, filling their boots. Temps both times were around 0F. Beating/wringing out the clothing and staying moving is sufficient and will, in short order, wear the clothing dry enough.

Regarding books and multiple versions, the way I heard story is the Fletcher was happy to write a single version but then went to a knife show and ended up drinking with that Levine feller.


About that "front porch", Steve is right, it's tent platform which is common in the Whites. That one is about 4 miles from the trailhead (Ethan Pond) and at about 3000', well in the boreal forest. They are used to concentrate and minimize impact at established backcountry campsites. It turns out that they are generally a lot colder than the ground due to the cold air under them.
 
That's all fine, but it's still what it is: arriving at a location with amenities that are available. Many of my campouts tend to be in places where we hiked through woods for miles, found a clearing and said "This place will work" and we built an actual campsite. Ground cleared, tents set up, and a fire going* with dinner prep on the way. A fixed blade was absolutely necessary in the execution of those tasks, which to me, means that anyone attempting to posit their opinion that fixed blades aren't needed for camping are bloviating from their exit windhole. :thumbup:

Which is my point. At the end of the day, if the stance was "I find that I do not require a fixed blade for the sorts of outdoor adventures I tend to enjoy", then the tone of my responses would be different. I'd love to see someone move through some heavy Georgia kudzu in high summer with a small pocket knife. What a laugh that would be.

*Which I'm sure are all major affronts to people who carry stoves because they don't want to leave any impact on the outdoors amirite?

Hey Quiet,

Yes, there are places where a machete is needed for travel. I generally don't consider a machete to be a fixed blade knife, per se.

Absent that, a LNT camper could camp anywhere you do without using a fixed blade. You may choose to camp in a different way - your choice - totally fine (so long as it's legal in your woods. But that's the point. Your style of camping is a choice and is not necessary for safe camping and travel.

Putting it another way, yes, a fixed blade is necessary for the way you like to camp but the way you like to camp isn't necessary. That's all I am saying.

I agree with you on the need for machete to get through some terrain.
 
Hey Quiet,

Yes, there are places where a machete is needed for travel. I generally don't consider a machete to be a fixed blade knife, per se.

Absent that, a LNT camper could camp anywhere you do without using a fixed blade. You may choose to camp in a different way - your choice - totally fine (so long as it's legal in your woods. But that's the point. Your style of camping is a choice and is not necessary for safe camping and travel.

Putting it another way, yes, a fixed blade is necessary for the way you like to camp but the way you like to camp isn't necessary. That's all I am saying.

I agree with you on the need for machete to get through some terrain.

Once again, your opinion. And once again, it isn't fact, but it is wrong. Carry on ol' chap.
 
Who determines what is necessary? So pinnah's way is necessary, but quiets isn't. Yea ok.

What a load of excrement, "your way isn't needed, but mine is" what an uneducated, opinionated, narrow minded statement that has about as much weight as the turd from a beta fish.:)
 
Sure, the way Quiet likes to camp isn't necessary, but neither is employing LNT doctrine.

I agree with LNT principles in a broad sense, and in particular in highly sensitive and/or heavily trafficked areas, where minimal individual impacts compound rapidly into very real larger impacts on the local environment. So if you're talking exclusively about through-hiking a well worn trail, then yes, you can assert that a fixed blade isn't necessary, if for no other reason than that in a worst case scenario, help and resources are guaranteed to arrive soon - in the form of the next hiker down the trail.

But outside of that narrow context, aspects of LNT become less relevant - and the general ethics start to shift too. Leaving the well worn trail and getting into wilder areas, the extent to which one may need to lean on their knife not just for safety but also for comfort (which often affords safety, in the form of better rest, better energy conservation, and a clearer head). All of which favours a stouter, more reliable knife.

Concerning the ethics of LNT in the context of fire and cooking: done right, a moderately sized cooking fire (or solid fuel stove) is pretty much guaranteed to have less of an impact on the overall environment (ie. beyond the immediate environment) as compared to the manufacture and use of fuel cylinders and their contents.
 
All of that said, I like my whisperlite, and nearly always have it as a backup, even if the main plan is to use wood fire. Ultimately I'm pretty flexible in my gear approach depending on mood and circumstance... but I've yet to find a scenario where a 3"-5" fixed blade couldn't be accommodated. Hell, I lose more than its weight off my midriff in the first day or two of a good trip ;)
 
Well we are all wrong, because historically humans rarely ever traveled "minimalist" by choice. All this individual travel and camping is a very modern thing. Humans are poor alone and survive in groups.
When possible they traveled from village to village. Anything far then as a party, as in hunting party. The man power to provide a camp and security takes a team effort. For nomads then usually a pack animal was deployed and they moved with a whole village or extended family group. Sure individual could go it alone, but rarely did unless on a well trodden trail.
A single human was pretty easily taken out by wild creatures; no chance against a bear, wolf pack, pride of lions, leopard. Just as dangerous were other humans. Wander into anyone else's patch and you were likely to end up in the cooking pot; heck we see it with gangs and their turf now.
Foraging takes too much effort for an individual on the move other than the shortest of trips. Expeditions regularly starved once their supplies ran out.
Takes a village to produce sustainable food from an environment; farming, fishing and hunting.

So whatever we are doing, is just playing. We all have our own train set to play with and each is different. What we all rely on is civilisation to support us.

Again no one is right or wrong.
Pinnah explains one way very well.
Bushcrafters may prefer a more down to earth approach to modern titanium and goretex manufactured systems. The ethics of what is better will go on forever. Pinnah is right in that some parks are flooded with so many people that they leave heavy footprints that without control would destroy the very essence of what is so attractive. Anywhere human population makes inroads changes the environment fast; really doesn't take much. That logging road ends up with a city at the end of it in only a few hundred years. That National Park soon has car parking, tourist information office, hotels and restaurants; and those signs "this way" and "don't feed the bears" everywhere.

A cooking fire residue can take several years to disappear, archaeologists find traces hundreds if not thousands of years old. I like a good fire though. The big debate now is the cumulative effect of humans in any environment and how damaging it is? Now thats a massive subject. As my son says, jobs in the future may well be clearing the mess up from the past.
 
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Sure, the way Quiet likes to camp isn't necessary, but neither is employing LNT doctrine.

Agreed. And I've said that repeatedly.

But that is not the controversy here.

The offensive thing I've said in this thread is that a fixed blade isn't necessary for safe backcountry travel.

That's it.

Chris Townsend's "Backpacker's Handbook" is the best book on rhe subject that I know. I'd recommend it to anybody who spends time in the outdoors regardless of what style of camping they end preferring.

Edited to add: LNT practices are needed on public lands that prohibit fires and shelter building. But that's not the debate in this thread.
 
I don't disagree with pinnah's position, based on the particular activities he's doing. I've spent a fair bit of time in the Whites as well and the alpine environment is a different beast than a forest setting and requires different kit than those of bushcraft, plain and simple. Even more so in winter conditions. Try doing the Northern Presidential Range in January or February with traditional bushcraft kit and report back if you aren't convinced:D

As knife enthusiasts, we naturally look for reasons to carry and use our favourite blades and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think the line between "want" and "need" get's blurry for many activities.

How does Sal say it? "All good, just different.":thumbup:
 
I agree with you on the need for machete to get through some terrain.

A 9-10 inch knife will clear a path, not as well as a true machete, but if sharp and thin-edged enough it will.

The exception is some of the heavier Busse will not do this well, not only because of the wider and more open edge angles, but because those with over 0.3 stock become harder to accelerate enough to cut small twigs...

Even a large heavy folder, with a nicely beaked handle, can help clear a few twigs by spinning it, but the risk is there to drop and damage it, and it is hardly efficient...

One very useful minimalist camping item is the "Lifestraw", which is a compact water filter:

p6149_column_grid_12.jpg


I also would bring a couple of those collapsible water flasks. You can't count on streams being always at hand...

Gaston
 
Hey Quiet,

I generally don't consider a machete to be a fixed blade knife, per se.
.

Definitions

Fixed: "securely placed or fastened "
Blade: "the cutting part of a tool"
Knife: "an instrument composed of a blade fixed into a handle, used for cutting or as a weapon."

So a machete fits the criteria. By any definition you take. a machete is a fixed blade.

Machete is a subdivision, just like bowie or dagger is.
 
Jens: Its an affectionate position, and has "minimalist" sexual connotations. A loving position by a couple in a bed, that may or may not lead to anything more.
So I am hoping that you are being sarcastic, it was in jest and happy to remove if real offence caused.
Being the joker that I am, your wife said she loved a cuddle.
http://www.goodtoknow.co.uk/relationships/539468/let-s-talk-about-spooning

Cobalt, you are being very pedantic. By your definition then knives aren't for chopping. Why does everyone want to place everything in a box? Think we can all be a bit more flexible and fluid, because it really isn't important and anyway people will do whatever they want to. There are good knives in every class.
I actually think a machete is a specialised tool, as is an axe, or even Kukri. They may all have blades but we don't all think of them as knives. Their class has its own title.

Argument for argument sake. Continual point scoring is exhausting. Ague a point, but not ad infinitum. Far better to be constructive, and a bit open minded.
 
Hey Quiet,

Yes, there are places where a machete is needed for travel. I generally don't consider a machete to be a fixed blade knife, per se.

Absent that, a LNT camper could camp anywhere you do without using a fixed blade. You may choose to camp in a different way - your choice - totally fine (so long as it's legal in your woods. But that's the point. Your style of camping is a choice and is not necessary for safe camping and travel.

Putting it another way, yes, a fixed blade is necessary for the way you like to camp but the way you like to camp isn't necessary. That's all I am saying.

I agree with you on the need for machete to get through some terrain.

You are such a fool, Pinnah, I don't even know how to respond to this putrid drivel from you. You don't get to make objective statements about camping, or about how others choose to enjoy the outdoors. I don't care what books you've read, or what people you idolize say. It's irrelevant, just like your opinion. You are clearly a guy who only likes to camp in a very specific set of circumstances, where you show up, and you have everything all ready for you.

Nothing you do is necessary, know that.
 
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