Minimum Caliber for bears?

We do not get any Bear here but when we used to hunt Feral Pigs we had used scoped 308's at distance in open country.
In thick bush and swamp lands where they would come fast out of the scrub at you we had Mini 14's with 20/30 round magazines.
This was a few years ago, I don't know if Ruger still make that model.
 
Thanks for all the info.! I have a double barreled 12 gauge that I will switch out with the .410. Now I think i will start looking for either a .308 or 30/30.

Sorry for all the noob questions, but is there one brand I should look for over others? Like say remington over savage?
 
I didn't see mention of a 45-70 .That in a Marlin guide gun would be my favorite bear rifle .12 Ga Brenneke slugs .44 mag revolver ....The biggest black bear taken in PA weighed [official] just over 800 lbs dressed out !!!...See a bear in the woods ? Take a photo !
 
fastcamo said:
if you own the .410 then load a slug it will be fine, if ya have something a little bigger it will be just as fine.. my arrow is producing barly over 90 lbs of kentic energy and it whips a bear to submission very fast, someone saying that you need something bigger has watched one to many movies, or maybe thats their opinion, but if your comfortable formost handling a weapon, and the .410 is all ya got, it will be more than fine.
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It's not about the kinetic energy, or what can kill a bear, it's about safety. I can kill a bear with my bow, and some guys do that every year. I admire them, however, I don't carry a bow on a bear because I am not skilled enough to make a 100 % safe kill with the bow. I can with my 30.30, that;'s why I use that.
The biggest bear ever shot in North America was shot by a native woman with a .22. So should we carry .22 now on bears? No! Because the likelyhood of you getting killed first rises exponentially as accuracy and bullet weight drop.

There is an old book out there written by John "Pondoro" Taylor, Big Game and Big Game Rifles. My Dad used to hunt in Africa and had that kind of literature, I am not sure though, if the book is still around. Taylor was a professional hunter in Africa for 30 years. Everybody who goes after big game should read this book, it's about carrying appropriate guns on big game and the likelyhood of dieing early if you don't. It might not be of importance for those who only hunt once in a blue moon, but those who hunt often should read Taylor's studies. I am also aware of the fact that North American game can't be compared with African game, but the book is still an eye opener.
 
Guns are for sissies. If you want to fight a bear like a man, you rip off your shirt and pull out your 10" bowie, all slow and dramatic like. Then you roar at the bear to let him know you mean business. (Then you have your buddy hiding in the bushes thump him a couple times with the semi-auto Barrett .50 BMG)
 
moonwilson said:
Guns are for sissies. If you want to fight a bear like a man, you rip off your shirt and pull out your 10" bowie, all slow and dramatic like. Then you roar at the bear to let him know you mean business.
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Nahh the mear site of my chest hair and chizled muscles are more than enough to scare away any animal...
 
I've gotta admit, keeping a campsite free of crumbs, etc. is a much different exercise with 4 small kids. But there's little that's more fun than teaching the tykes about the outdoors.
 
It occurs to me that our two girls may have saved our bacon without us ever knowing it... they sure make enough noise to let a bear or other critter know we're coming! :D
 
GibsonFan said:
It occurs to me that our two girls may have saved our bacon without us ever knowing it... they sure make enough noise to let a bear or other critter know we're coming! :D
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I had the same thought about my own usually-noisy brood. Though my elder boys (ages 5 and 6) are beginning to get pretty good at quiet stalking. The 6-year-old has been able to creep up on birds pretty well--and, with that kind of early start, I'll be really interested to see what he ends up being able to do when he gets to adolescence.
 
I thought I heard Alaska fish and game carry the .454 casual as a sidearm.
Also the a .450 Marlin might put a dent in one, though I still think 12 ga. with slugs is the best bet.

Helle
 
I still don't think a gun is a good idea, but from everything I have read about guns and bears a 180 gr. 30-06 and up is better than a 12 ga slug. The shotgun may be more all round and cheaper, but if it is only for bear defence have a look at the Marlin Guide gun .45-70 (model 1895GS). Cheap, lever action for fast follow up, stainless, compact 18.5" barrel.
 
I say you take a mini gun with you and and it the first hint of a bear, let out a blood curdling yell and open up on the forest a-la predator movie. Take that forest down. Any animals you didn't kill will have crapped their fur and run off. Every time you fire it off let out that blood curdling tell and after a few more days of that the entire forest will run at the sound of your yell.

it may be costly, but it will be worth the look on the surviving animals faces
 
Well since my last post to this thread never made it, I finally finished my experiment today. About a year ago i shot a spruce log several times. After I shot it, I set it aside. Today I measured it and cut it apart to dig the slugs out. Here are the particulars. The log was a measured 7" spruce. I shot it once with a 1 3/8 oz. Brenneke hardcast slug, once w/ remington 00 buck, and four times w/ 300g .44 mag @ 1370 fps. After I split the log today and measured everything, here are the penetration figures.

00 Buck: @1"

1 3/8 slug: 5 1/4" to the nose of the slug.

300g .44 Mag: Don't know. All 4 penetrated completely and kept on going.
Routinely get 13" or better penetration in logs w/ same load.

Shoot whatever you want. I don't think it matters too much on a black bear. Does make a difference on a brownie. I would not shoot a .410. Those exist only for making pretty over/unders that handle like a dream and break those flourescent orange things into little black bits.:D :D
 
Walt-FL said:
It's not about the kinetic energy, or what can kill a bear, it's about safety. I can kill a bear with my bow, and some guys do that every year. I admire them, however, I don't carry a bow on a bear because I am not skilled enough to make a 100 % safe kill with the bow. I can with my 30.30, that;'s why I use that.
The biggest bear ever shot in North America was shot by a native woman with a .22. So should we carry .22 now on bears? No! Because the likelyhood of you getting killed first rises exponentially as accuracy and bullet weight drop.

There is an old book out there written by John "Pondoro" Taylor, Big Game and Big Game Rifles. My Dad used to hunt in Africa and had that kind of literature, I am not sure though, if the book is still around. Taylor was a professional hunter in Africa for 30 years. Everybody who goes after big game should read this book, it's about carrying appropriate guns on big game and the likelyhood of dieing early if you don't. It might not be of importance for those who only hunt once in a blue moon, but those who hunt often should read Taylor's studies. I am also aware of the fact that North American game can't be compared with African game, but the book is still an eye opener.
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the question can a .410 kill a bear.. and yes it can i dont need a whole story or explination if or what or who for that matter killed what with anything, the guy simply asked if a .410 was enough,, and yes it is, it packs a hell of alot more punch than a bow, its lightweight and so forth, now if he owns something bigger we all agree to take that, but if he asks about a .410 that he already owns, he does not need to go out and buy a new gun, and accuracy and bullet drop has nothing to do with it, hes not going bear hunting, he is carring a weapon for safety, and if a .410 is all he has, then a slug will most certainly take care of business
 
fastcamo said:
the question can a .410 kill a bear.. and yes it can i dont need a whole story or explination if or what or who for that matter killed what with anything, the guy simply asked if a .410 was enough,, and yes it is, it packs a hell of alot more punch than a bow, its lightweight and so forth, now if he owns something bigger we all agree to take that, but if he asks about a .410 that he already owns, he does not need to go out and buy a new gun, and accuracy and bullet drop has nothing to do with it, hes not going bear hunting, he is carring a weapon for safety, and if a .410 is all he has, then a slug will most certainly take care of business
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So can a knife, a big rock, or a framing hammer but I would not suggest any of them for bear defense, nor would I suggest a 410. As a matter of fact I would rather have a large can of bear spray as a 410, IMO more effective, easier to carry, and less legalities to carry and use it.
 
Larry_From_Bend is giving you the best advice, go with what he said. I hunt pretty frequently here in AZ near Four Peaks which has, acre for acre, the highest concentration of Blackies in the state. I get out about twice a week hunting bunnies, quail, coyotes, dove, deer, cougars, bear, snakes and whatever else I can whether with a gun or a camera. I've seen sign, but never a bear in that country.

On the other hand, we saw a Blackie while Elk hunting last October north of Bear Canyon lake. He was drinking at a water hole around dusk and ran away as soon as he saw or smelled us. Anyway, I carry a .357 Mag S&W loaded with Buffalo Bore's heavy .357 Mag rounds. 180gr. hard cast lead slugs at ~1500fps. Now I can't say whether or not that is sufficient for bear, but that is what I carry. I'm more worried about running into illegal mexicans growing pot in our national forests than animals.

One old desert rat told me if I was going to carry any kind of handgun as protection against bear I needed to file the front sight off. I asked "Why, so I can aim faster?" To which he replied "No, that's so it don't hurt so bad when tha Bear sticks it up yer ass".

I spend a lot of time alone in some pretty wild areas and I don't worry too much about bears, but I am conscious of them and always try to keep my eyes open. Always keep all food and trash far away from camp and up high if you can. I can't wear a bell when I'm hunting, but I do have a bell my buddy got me for Christmas. It's kind of cool, it's in a little nylon pouch with a clip and a little cap that you can slip over it when you need to be quiet. The cap has a strong magnet in it, so it kind of grabs the bell and the rattler inside and keeps it still. I carry an asp street defender on my key chain, but that's usually buttoned away in a pocket when I'm hunting so I probably wouldn't be able to get it out in time if a bear suddenly appeared.

Have a nice time, be safe.
 
RedEdge77 said:
This summer I hope to head to the adirondacks for some camping and fishing for a few days. One of my concerns is the possibility of running into some unfriendly bears. I have heard encounters with bears up there are rather common, although I have not seen too many reports of bear attacks.

So I was wondering what is the lowest caliber in a rifle you would feel comfortable carrying out in the woods? Chances are I will be bringing my .410 shotgun but I have no clue as to whether or not that is big enough for a bear. :confused:. The gun will not be used for hunting, mainly as a deep in the woods self defense gun. Handguns are not a possibility at the moment.
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a .410 is the last gun I'd grab for bear country, a pump 12 guage with slugs and buck alternated would do the trick, or a lever gun in 444 or 45-70. But the big question is, the pressure of being charged by a bear-could you handle it and not choke?
 
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