Misleading ads - am I bad?

O

Orpheous

Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
110
I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but I'm getting really fed up with misleading ads like this one: Schrade Walden® Muskrat with Amber Jigged Bone Knife
It now takes ages to sort out the Taylor Cutlery Knives from the good stuff...
I'll probably get pinged for it from Ebay, but I searched for misleading Schrade Walden ads and emailed some of the bidders to let them know what they were really buying :D
Was that wrong of me? :o
 
Orpheous said:
I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but I'm getting really fed up with misleading ads like this one: Schrade Walden® Muskrat with Amber Jigged Bone Knife
It now takes ages to sort out the Taylor Cutlery Knives from the good stuff...
I'll probably get pinged for it from Ebay, but I searched for misleading Schrade Walden ads and emailed some of the bidders to let them know what they were really buying :D
Was that wrong of me? :o
Click to expand...

How many misleading ads did you find? You could spend hours a day emailing folks bidding on Taylors, or Schrade Waldens being represented as pre-1973's. If you search on EBay for Schrade, well more than half of them are not genuine Schrades.
 
I only did a quick search, but found hundreds worldwide. I emailed those which had more than a day or two left to bid, then I posted here. I went back to Ebay to alert a few more unsuspecting Schrade buyers, and I'd been locked out of my account:foot:

This is part of an email I got shortly after:
Dear xxxxxx,

It appears your account was accessed by an unauthorised third party and used to send unsolicited emails to other community members, including email offers to sell items outside of eBay. It does not appear that your account was used to list or bid on any items. Additionally, the email address on your account may have been tampered with, which is why you may not have received any emails about this activity.

It appears they booted me out to protect me from myself :P
I hope I didn't bid on anything during my temporarily insane spamming bout :eek:
 
Orpheous said:
I only did a quick search, but found hundreds worldwide. I emailed those which had more than a day or two left to bid, then I posted here. I went back to Ebay to alert a few more unsuspecting Schrade buyers, and I'd been locked out of my account:foot:

This is part of an email I got shortly after:
Dear xxxxxx,

It appears your account was accessed by an unauthorised third party and used to send unsolicited emails to other community members, including email offers to sell items outside of eBay. It does not appear that your account was used to list or bid on any items. Additionally, the email address on your account may have been tampered with, which is why you may not have received any emails about this activity.

It appears they booted me out to protect me from myself :P
I hope I didn't bid on anything during my temporarily insane spamming bout :eek:
Click to expand...

Well that sucks! I guess I'd not worry anymore about people who are bidding on Taylors and fake Waldens. I think spotting the stinkers is real easy, most of the time.
 
thawk said:
Well that sucks! I guess I'd not worry anymore about people who are bidding on Taylors and fake Waldens. I think spotting the stinkers is real easy, most of the time.
Click to expand...
I have eBay up and running again, but I don't think I'll be mass emailing other eBayers anytime soon. I just feel bad for those that buy this Taylor cr@p without knowing...
 
Well, I gave up long ago trying to straighten out the Taylor products mess. Generally, if a person is serious about avoiding the Chinese Taylors, the Camillus made SMKW Schrade Waldens, the Bear & Son made Schrade Waldens, they will go to the trouble to educate themselves on the real deal before buying. Resources are much better now than they were a year or two ago. Both the archives of this forum and the BRL forum, and the Collectors-of-Schrades site. Yes, I am still quite willing to help someone who asks for help. But sending the emails to buyers and sellers unsolicited is liable to garner the ire of both parties, like trying to break up a fight between your neighbor and his girlfriend.

Michael
 
G'Day, I contain my Ebay whistle blowing to obvious Schrade scammers rather than trying to protect buyers from their own inexperience as this is part of the learning process we all went through.
We had one fraudster in Australia recently and Ebay actually thanked me for bringing it to their attention and banned one of the party's.
It went like this a seller had 2 Ebay identities. He bought Schrade in America usually where there were say 5 genuine schrade in box type deals, under one of his identities.He then put them up for sale individually in Australia under his other Ebay identity and where the scam came in was he would schill upbid his own items with his first identity and Aussies were paying frightfully high prices. I identified his scam because some of the Schrade items had distinctive sale price stickers on box or there was some other distinctive marking like crumpled corner or dirtmark on box and to a supersleuth Schrade collector these are distinctive. I watched while Aussies were paying hundreds of dollars needlessly bidding against the "Seller".Sometimes the scam "buyer" was left with the article when he was upbidding and would leave glowing feedback for the Seller unfortunately he would mention great packing and prompt despatch but would leave the feedback next morning after close of auction ..giving fast post a new meaning.
The peculiar thing is Ebay banned the original scam "buyer" of these Schrades but have not touched the "seller" who I suspect has simply created another alias as bidder and so ad infinitum. Caveat emptor! All he does now is remove a distinctive box and every Schrade knife looks pretty much the same.. Ebay can be "forced" to act but dont appear to have too many controls in place IMHO. Hoo Roo

P.S. I actually told Ebay I was going to report this Schrade scam on Blade forums America for all to see if they did not act as I had reported his activities on 3 previous occasions with no action... and they banned the scammer within 24 hours..so they can be forced to act if they face unfavourable publicity and or loss of potential income.
 
G'day :)
I guess you're both right, it's up to the buyer to make an educated decision prior to committing to buy, it is part of the learning process to get scammed once or twice.
It still irks me to see these knives, what I would call fakes, getting similar prices to what legitimate Schrades sell for.
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a Ducks Unlimited.

BTW Larry, if you have the time, have a look at some of the photo's I've posted in the Australian & Asian Community's Forum, the ones I've posted are from in and around Cairns, but I'm trying to encourage other Aussies to post up pics of their area too. If you have any pics you'd like to post, please feel free to add to the thread :)
Where are you? (Aussie Pics)
 
G'Day Orpheous, I'm a born and bred bananabender mate from Queensland and did my early schooling in Cairns at Edge Hill State School lived near Freshwater Creek which had crocodiles on our school boundary in the 50's ..they used to teach us to run Zig Zag to outrun them as they are supposed to run only in a straight line...funny how none of us died of ticks or being eaten or being kicked to death by the Cassowary's that I recall,all considered to be deadly today!Went North to Cooktown in the 50's crossing the many streams,rivers and rainforrests with my father and mother and as you know were infested by wild boars and Crocs..it all seemed so normal then.......now I only play with 18' white pointer sharks in my 17' boat off Port Lincoln.. everything is so mundane and tame today mate.. nothing dangerous..don't ya reckon?? Will look at your forum mate. Hoo Roo
 
Best thing to do is write a guide. I wrote one for Weidmannsheil because a lot of sellers refer to the fact that the original company stopped production in 1991 even though they are selling new production.

You can't help everybody. The sellers are shmucks. Some people might not care if it's authentic. A serious collector should know what he is buying.

http://reviews.ebay.com/Buying-Weid...000004684775?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:1
 
Sorry to make my first post at your forum an unpopular one, but orpheous, you are very, very bad. How is it your place to intrude into a transaction between two strangers ? Is this somthing you do in 'real life' or only on line?

What you have done is also a violation of ebay rules. Are you above all the rules of society?

The plain fact is: Taylor Cutlery IS the real Schrade at this time. Taylor is the legal owner of the name. Some of the Taylor made Schrades-- both US and China made, are fine products.

I wonder. Do some of you here still hold a grudge against old Imperial for taking the once fine name of Hammer and putting it on cheap tin handled knives? Do you Blame Schrade for the end of the Ulster Brand? Times and things change. It has been that way for years. Looking over past posts in the forum, it seems that Stewart Taylor is considered the devil himself for trying to make a perfectly legal living.
 
riata said:
Sorry to make my first post at your forum an unpopular one, but orpheous, you are very, very bad. How is it your place to intrude into a transaction between two strangers ? Is this somthing you do in 'real life' or only on line?

What you have done is also a violation of ebay rules. Are you above all the rules of society?

The plain fact is: Taylor Cutlery IS the real Schrade at this time. Taylor is the legal owner of the name. Some of the Taylor made Schrades-- both US and China made, are fine products.

I wonder. Do some of you here still hold a grudge against old Imperial for taking the once fine name of Hammer and putting it on cheap tin handled knives? Do you Blame Schrade for the end of the Ulster Brand? Times and things change. It has been that way for years. Looking over past posts in the forum, it seems that Stewart Taylor is considered the devil himself for trying to make a perfectly legal living.
Click to expand...

Well Ebay doesn't do much policing of their site. It is up to the members to do so. Misrepresentation and fraud is rampant. Ebay really only cares about making money.

I don't see how preventing someone from getting ripped off is a bad thing.

Comparing the old Schrade product to the new is just ridiculous.
 
I agree Taylor Brands LLC has every right to own and sell the Schrade name , however in the auction of topic, the seller is representing a new Taylor model as " Schrade old stock" which is just fraud to me, especially coming from a knife dealer.
 
I own a couple of Taylors fine knives,as you describe them.They are junk.Handles don't fit,pins fall of handles and fit and finish is terrible.I don't know how many of these you are basing your knowledge on but I suggest you use the search function on this forum to read the reports on these knives.Welcome to the forum and I hope you come back.Arnold
 
It wouldn't matter how good the new Schrades might be. They aren't old Schrades. Coillectors don't buy the name, they buy the history, too.
 
Upstream said:
I agree Taylor Brands LLC has every right to own and sell the Schrade name , however in the auction of topic, the seller is representing a new Taylor model as " Schrade old stock" which is just fraud to me, especially coming from a knife dealer.
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Bingo!

The Imperial - Hammer argument holds a little water, but back then the knives were bought at a store, you saw the packaging or counter display information, and there was no deception. You knew what you were getting. It wasn't an attempt to deceive novice collectors.

I've emailed a few of these jerks, and the replies I get furthered the scam, and when pressed to tell the real truth, they will tell you to leave them alone.
 
You know it has been very interesting to watch the reception and perceptions of the Schrade branded Chinese made Taylor knives evolve these last few years. Like clockwork, an individual pops up here (among dedicated collectors of genuine Schrade products 1904-2004) declaring them to be of good quality in fit, finish and made from best materials. And yet people here who handle and hold the genuine articles and compare them to the Chinese knives repeatedly declare them to be junk. This has been going on since the first COSCO (Chinese Overseas Shipping Company, AKA PLA) containers were unloaded in 2005. Heck, I've even seen one former forum member selling them on eBay now, calling them "good".

The biggest problem seems to be sellers (most particularly eBay sellers) who do what they can to hide the fact that the knives they sell are imported goods made for Taylor, not Schrades. He does own the name and can put it on toilet paper if he so wishes.

SMKW's use of the Taylor owned trademarks is not a new thing under the sun. At least those were, for the most part, made by Bear & Son or Camillus Cutlery.

I object to "SCHRADE 100th Anniversary" knives in cigar boxes made in China in 2007. As I objected to Taylor copying the original last Schrade boxes down to the American flag even though they contained Chinese kniives. But he explained that as an oversight, an error made by the artist he hired from the bankrupt Schrade, and as soon as that batch of packaging was used up, he changed the packaging design.

But the sellers in the meantime had a field day with them. Put up a blurry picture, sketchy description, and sell them to collectors of Schrades. On this point I have to repeat myself yet again. A Taylor knife is not a Schrade any more than a Pakastani knife stamped Scagel or Loveless is a Scagel or a Loveless.

By the way, Schrade was owned by Ulster, not the other way around.

Codger
 
Ok, let me see if I can phrase this in a more acceptable and professional way. Schrade branded knives made prior to the Imperial Schrade liquidation sale in October of 2004 were manufacturer branded knives. Schrade branded knives made since that time are merchant branded knives, not Schrades. Taylor Brands Limited Liability Company is a merchant, not a manufacturer. Huaxing Industrial Co Ltd, Peace Target Limited, Wenzhou Chinalight Hardware Knife Co Ltd, YangJiang Andeli Kitchen Knvies Enterprises CO., Ltd, Yangdong Xinde Metal & Plastic Co., Ltd., Guangzhou Original Power Co.,Ltd., Yangjiang Yongan Hardwares Factory, Janyoo Manufactury Ltd and Wenzhou Chinalight Hardware Knife Co.,Ltd are all Chinese knife manufacturers. TBLLC has not, to my knowledge, revealed who the manufacturer of their knives is. But whether they are Huaxing, Wenzhou, or Janyoo, they are not Schrade knives.

Is that more clear now? I could invite Mr. Levine over here to explain it better if I am still being misunderstood on this point.

Michael
 
Yeh Codger Mr Levine might say"read the knife not the tang" my chinese Mandarin is terrible just like the Charade knife.
Mr Taylor provides a clone of the original for unscrupulous sellers to exploit those who are buying the Schrade history.I wonder how many Chinese buy and use these clones or are they made expressly for the potential collector market?
Why hide the Taylor name inside the open stock boxes which have to be purchased and opened before you find out its Taylor made under Licence Schrade Walden and not the original history Walden open stock the buyer invariably believes they are buying.Why not proudly declare its a Chinese made, Taylor the merchant knife ,on the outside if it is not intended to deliver the ability for grotty little sellers to misrepresent?Usually the price is the giveaway clue ..we've all seen a 171UH with sheath struggling to achieve $17 on Ebay and think..Ahh Sooo sumfink wong here.! IMHO.
You cannot defend the indefenceable. Hoo Roo
 
ebay is largely self regulating through the feedback system. the weak point is that most buyers are unwilling to give negative feedback even if it is clearly deserved, because most sellers will then leave negative feedback for the buyer, even if the buyer has been honest and reasonable. i think this is a hang over from school. people place more value on their ebay "score" than on their integrity. ("never trust a buyer of > 100 knives with 100% FB score")
so, knowledgeable collectors who help to bust scams and notify others, is a useful regulating adjunct. roland
 
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