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Missing 411 - National Park Disappearances/Missing Persons

Discussion in 'Wilderness & Survival Skills' started by Feuer686, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Feuer686

    Feuer686

    178
    Dec 3, 2009
    Hi folks, anyone here familiar with Missing 411 and/or David Paulides?

    He's a former cop, now an investigative journalist. When he was in a national park, a Park Ranger asked him to look into a Missing Person case, and from there it expanded into a huge, and I mean huge series of disturbing finds. I think there's 4 books he's compiled now.

    I can't remember specifically how I first heard about it, but I found a lot of the interviews Paulides has done on Coast To Coast AM with George Noory. To say it's strange is an understatement.

    Primarily he focuses on missing persons cases that have happened in United States National Parks. The further he looked into it, he found these clusters around National Parks where people would go missing, either being found dead or never heard from again.

    What gets particularly disturbing is the manner in which many of the recovered bodies have been found. For example a toddler goes missing (I can't remember how old, but it's in a couple of the interviews at least), and is then found perhaps a couple days later, a valley over and 1,000 feet elevation difference. Something beyond the physical capabilities of a child that size or age. Edit Having listened to the interview again, Les Stroud (Survivorman) called Paulides, remarking on the case of a 2 year old boy in Oregon, who, over 11 hours, traveled two mountain ranges (valleys) - 9-12 miles - Stroud stated even he didn't think he could do that.

    That's just a basic one off the top of my head, but there are numerous other cases, 4 books worth at least.

    Perhaps even more unsettling is the response Paulides has been faced with when requesting information from the National Park Service for information on these disappearances. As an investigative journalist he'll request document information through a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) Request, but is then told he has to pay an exorbitant amount for said documents.

    In his interviews Paulides is very reluctant to present any conclusions. He's pretty straightforward with presenting the facts as is. I've never had much of a huge interest in paranormal stuff, but occasionally it does interest me.

    With the missing persons aspect of it, and it being particular to National Parks I've found it really intriguing. Thought it would be a good topic for BF.

    I'm wondering if there's anyone on the forums here who's familiar with Search and Rescue type work or National Park Services who've heard about any of this.

    Here are some of the Youtube links. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here, but it interests me, and was wondering if anyone else here is too.

    I think this is the most recent for Coast to Coast AM - (It starts with him, but really gets to it almost right at 9:45)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh1yKqsnulY

    With the last interview I saw that there's a Kickstarter for a movie they're trying to get off the ground, I think by now it's pretty well funded, but again, if anyone has any interest in it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
  2. kaotikross

    kaotikross Banned BANNED

    Nov 20, 2013
    Time to remove the sasquatch from the protected list and resume regular hunting seasons, if you ask me.
     
  3. Feuer686

    Feuer686

    178
    Dec 3, 2009
    Haha, funny you mention that. From what I've gleaned Paulides has also done a book focusing on Bigfoot (Sasquatch). I haven't read it but I am somewhat curious, with his methods in Missing 411. Again, despite his experience and having written a book on Bigfoot, he still completely abstains from steering towards any kind of conclusion in the Missing 411 cases, relying only on presenting the facts of the disappearances.
     
  4. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt

    475
    Jul 28, 2014
    I have briefly read something about this.
    Quite interesting IMO.
    Lot of different "ideas" from a lot of different folks on the cause(s) of the disappearances...
     
  5. Klutz

    Klutz Gold Member Gold Member

    505
    Apr 1, 2011
    I heard him on Coast to Coast a while ago. Very disturbing info.
     
  6. Jens Schuetz

    Jens Schuetz

    Jun 24, 2013
    It's harder to die or disappear in a city park.
    Where it's even easier to die, in non national park wilderness not many people go.
    Thus there could be more incidents in national parks.

    Sure there will be some misterious cases, just like in any other place. Does that mean that all cases are sinister or would most still be accidents?


    Another contributing factor for clustering might be that there is just so much privately owned land in America. If some guy wants to do something fishy he can't just go off any road. First of all there are fences and barbed wire everywhere. Sencondly the owner of the land might discover him and call the cops or take care of it himself. [emoji2]
    Thus strange guys might cluster in the few state and federally owned areas which are less controlled.
    Wasn't there even some mafia guys growing drugs in or near national parks?
     
  7. lazy otter

    lazy otter Banned BANNED

    Apr 4, 2013
    I'm very familiar with the term...Gone Missing... In the park system and outside of the park systems. I don't know why it happens but it does and I just accept it. It's not a new thing and has been happening before the white man even showed up...Alaskan Natives and other Native cultures knew about this. You can also just for fun look up The Alaska Triangle and Vermont triangle. Stay safe and alert and wary of strangers and you should be fine.
     
  8. Feuer686

    Feuer686

    178
    Dec 3, 2009
    Thanks Otter. I think Paulides has mentioned either the Alaskan Natives or the Vermont triangle on one of the interviews, it may have been George or someone who called in too. What get's really unsettling to me is when Paulides makes a FOIA request for info on the missing persons from the Natl. Park Service and gets outright denied or then told it's some crazy price for the list.
     
  9. lazy otter

    lazy otter Banned BANNED

    Apr 4, 2013
    I've heard that the Parks are less than helpful when trying to get info on missing persons and murders in the parks. I gotta say the Gone Missing thing has always interested me since I was told about it as a kid. Animals and people always leave something to say they were there,but to just go poof and gone? No too odd! For trained trackers and SAR not to turn up anything even odder and you add the Parks response to these events doesn't help. People wonder why I carry a gun in the woods this is one of the reasons. Remember 3shots back to back someone needs help! It maybe me you save!
     
  10. Feuer686

    Feuer686

    178
    Dec 3, 2009
    I'm glad someone else mentioned that. Completely agree, it was really assuring to hear Paulides advocate that as well. I think he mentioned the three best practices to keep in mind were: always have a firearm on you, always have a PLB (personal locator beacon with GPS locational abilities) in case of getting lost, and never travel/hike alone.
     
  11. James Y

    James Y

    Feb 18, 1999
    I've read all four of his books. Another scary thing is that many people who were armed, such as experienced hunters, have disappeared as well. Also, often people walking in groups will inexplicably vanish; usually someone at the front of the group who goes just a little ways ahead, or someone at the rear of the group. Some people have vanished without a trace while walking on trails with high foot traffic in broad daylight.

    Disappearances also seem to happen a lot around boulder fields and other characteristic geographical locations.

    Jim
     
  12. Jens Schuetz

    Jens Schuetz

    Jun 24, 2013
    Do more or less people disappear with arms?
    Without a ratio it's quite meaningless information.

    Per 10000 hours spend in the wilderness, how many people disappear with gun and how many without? Wouldn't that be an interesting number to get a good idea of the general risk and the advantage / or disadvantage of having a gun there?

    Also having a gun enables you to face more risks and indicates that you are more of a wilderness guy to begin with. Thus with a gun being probably more likely familiar with nature you might just go deeper and more often into the woods and not be scared as much as city folks and then things just go south more often and help is more far away.

    Thus a gun even if advantageous in the wild could still corellate to more disappearances simply because of the kind of person gun carriers are compared to organic tree huggers.

    Does anybody have any real numbers?
     
  13. lazy otter

    lazy otter Banned BANNED

    Apr 4, 2013
    I don't think we will ever get the true number of armed people simply because not everyone anounces that they got one and some places where prohibited some don't carry at all, I do but it's not a smart idea! I also lets just say don't present myself as a target for humans I'm sure they would rather look elsewhere. Real numbers are gonna go just on the cases at hand not the lone hiker or hunter and still those are gonna have to be sorted through and then it's still a rough estimate. I'd go through the books and cases and start there.
     
  14. Feuer686

    Feuer686

    178
    Dec 3, 2009
    I think in one of the interviews Paulides may have a small percentage of those who had a firearm when they went missing. Although it is refresging he heavily advocates carrying a firearm when going onto the trails or in the wilderness, adding that in many state parks it is perfectly legal with a state carry license [as well as reciprocity]. That, a PLB (Personal locator beacon - GPS), and a companion, are the top three measures to take, as he puts it (I think, I may have to go back through another of the interviews).

    Seriously just take the time to listen to the interviews, even if you remain a skeptic of the disappearances he has sound advice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  15. James Y

    James Y

    Feb 18, 1999
    Although I don't currently own any firearms, if I were considering going out into the wilderness, I would definitely buy one and take it with me. I don't know the percentages of armed to unarmed people, only that armed people have gone missing. In one instance, the guy was an experienced outdoorsman who was considered one of the world's top bear trackers. When his camp was found (it was in western Canada), his pants (and boots?) looked as if he's simply melted out of them; like they'd been undone and just dropped straight down. Nothing like an animal attack. And if I remember right, the only trace of him found were a few bits of bones, and no bloody or messy scene as would happen in an animal mauling.

    I agree that if you are skeptical, just listen to Paulides' interviews, or read his books (but forget Amazon). Most people who don't think there is anything unusual going on and that these are normal disappearances have not. These disappearances are not the normal type where people might be abducted by serial killers, marijuana growers; attacked by wild animals; purposefully disappearing and starting another life; or simply gotten lost as often happens in the wilds. Paulides does not include those types of cases in his studies. There seems to be almost organized patterns to the weirdness of the disappearances he studies. Also, tracking dogs often cannot find a scent, or are unwilling to try, often appearing afraid to.

    Jim
     
  16. panzertroop

    panzertroop

    Aug 8, 2008
    No big deal to me. Why do people going missing in national parks? Why not??? It's big areas of wilderness that are easy to get lost in. Also people maybe wanting to get lost. In Japan there is a suicide forest. 100's of people go to that forest specifically to kill themselves either by their own hand or to get them selves lost on purpose with the intent of death. Seems like the same thing to me, but since we have so many national parks it makes it seem more unrelated and sinister. A way to sell books?
     
  17. Feuer686

    Feuer686

    178
    Dec 3, 2009
    Aokigahara Forest. Pretty good documentary about it on Youtube.

    Suicide is certainly plausible, still it leaves the matter of so many cases where no remains whatsoever are found, or in cases where scent-tracking dogs find nothing at all either.

    Through it all I still think the most unsettling bit is the refusal of the Park Service to turn over records through Paulides' FOIA request, and then proposing a sum to be paid for the information on top of that.
     
  18. lazy otter

    lazy otter Banned BANNED

    Apr 4, 2013
    I gotta point out just because you're armed doesn't make you safe. You may see someone or something that appears to be a person or is a person causing you not to shoot. Shock could be another reason for not firing your weapon. Surprise you may not have time to react cuz what or who ever is already on ya. I'm sure there are other reasons for shoot no shoot situations but having a gun does not make you king of the Wilds. Yes I'm a hardcore gun lover but I live in reality too...lol.
     
  19. sams

    sams

    Apr 21, 2001
    Ok I did listen to a few "you tubes" on 411. It sure is creepy. Definitely a mystery about what is happening.
     
  20. panzertroop

    panzertroop

    Aug 8, 2008
    Anyone in SAR can tell you that dogs are not always the answer and don't always perform. I should say the dog handlers. Poorly trained dogs with inept handlers will miss scent trails.
     

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