Modern hand forged axes with flat cheeks ?

Would you buy a new custom or hand forged axe with flat cheeks ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • No

    Votes: 11 45.8%
  • Total voters
    24
Hickory n steel

Hickory n steel

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Feb 11, 2016
Messages
19,949
After seeing some Hoffman axes and some other hand forged axes being produced today , I started thinking about how the Smiths take the time to forge these axes by hand and don't even bother to go the extra mile and add convex cheeks.
Then I started wondering why anyone would spend big money on a reportedly high quality tool that doesn't even incorporate this simple element of axe design that has been around for over 200yrs and is known to enhance performance. If I was to spend this kind of money ( I'm not even talking about a commissioned one only piece ) on a hand forged axe like this It would have to at least incorporate convex cheeks and maybe even phantom bevels. Why spend this much money on an axe that I'm sure could easily be bested by a functionally restored vintage axe with less than 50$ put into it ?
 
Lack of understanding on the makers part. They are "unfinished" in the design department. Or, possibly, they just do not care and are just selling wall hanging pieces.
As far as the buyer, they probably do not know either. They are flooded with videos of people who do not have a clue telling them what to buy. You can literally watch videos of people "showcasing" axes in some kind of foolish demonstration, clueless that they have just made a video that shows exactly why said axe is inferior.
 
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It will only matter significantly if the bit is thick enough to be pushing the wood past its point of elasticity. In the case of very thin bits there's less "room" for a convex (that is to say that the radius of the convex would be so large as to make the surface nearly flat) and so the wood will still be making full contact with the cheeks since it can spring right back to that point without having been permanently deformed. So in those circumstances, flat cheeks aren't really a detractor. On thicker bits, though? Yeah, that'd be a problem.
 
There is quite a large spectrum between "optimal" and "wall hanging pieces". For small axes, this feature may not even make a great deal of difference, as it may not make either for a casual user. Few can boast these days being more than casual users. However, good steel properly heat treated gives a very tangible performance boost over the run-of-the-mill pieces one can buy.
 
I think it just depends on the use. If you aren't felling or bucking large trees regularly it essentially doesn't matter at all. My 1950s Old Yank is flat and a pretty thick wedge on top of that - splits wood like a boss and for that reason does exactly what I need it to. And regardless, Hoffman would happily put the features you want in your axe I'm sure. The argument about restoring an old axe will be true until they are all gone and is a rotting stinking dead horse. It won't stop modern axe makers from selling axes to someone else and to bring it up at all means you already have your answer. It makes more sense for you to restore an axe than buy one. On top of that, flat cheek axes aren't a modern problem or phenomenon, they're simply different from one particular group's picture of perfection.

Yes, I would buy a flat axe because I am aware that "cheeks" have absolutely zero value for the vast majority of the work I do with an axe. It would take about 5 hammer blows (or for Hoffman, a couple squishes from the press) to thin the outer edges of an axe so if you gotta have it, ask for it, or grind them in yourself, then you can start finding a way to more forward with your life.

Dammit ... that was as snarky as ever and I keep promising to stop it. I apologize in advance. It's a character flaw, and recognizing our flaws is the first step. I have no idea what the second step is so .......... "Post Reply"
 
I don't have enough time in my life to fool around with sticky flat-cheeked axes. Even a slightly convexed cheek greatly improves release. But I make an exception for broad hatchets or carving hatchets which won't driven deeply into wood. For this type of work it doesn't matter.

Bucking or felling with a flat-cheeked axe? I'd rather chew a ball of foil.
 
Old Maine Axes are wedge shaped with flat cheeks, they were made so until the factories closed. Everyone has their preference, but for me it goejsrly doesn't make enough of a difference to fuss over. I'm not dropping 3' diameter white pine or giant oaks all the time.
 
I understand that a flat cheeked axe is probably fine for most people nowadays, but I just feel like the Smith should strive to be the best of the best and leaving an axe flat cheeked doesn't say that.
It's like a chef realizing he forgot to put parsley on a dish, and not correcting his mistake because he knows his diners aren't refined enough to notice anyways.

I'm not in the market for a hand forged custom axe or anything, this is just something I starting thinking about.
 
DarthTaco123 said:
Old Maine Axes are wedge shaped with flat cheeks, they were made so until the factories closed.
Click to expand...
Maine factories produced more than the Maine pattern. They made axes with high centerline's. That little river in Oakland produced more axes than the rest of the entire world at one point.















The pictures were taken at the Maine state Museum.
 
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Woodcraft said:
Maine factories produced more than the Maine pattern. They made axes with high centerline's. That little river in Oakland produced more axes than the rest of the entire world at one point.
Those are some nice looking axes there, and I especially like those wedge double bits.















The pictures were taken at the Maine state Museum.
Click to expand...
 
I think the economic answer would be lack of competition. Liam Hoffman is not competing with restoring an axe, he is competing with European axe makers. The modern market for high end axes is not only driven, but practically revived by GB, Wetterlings, then Neeman/Autine etc.
 
The Maine pattern and Wedge pattern tend to get confused. They're pretty much identical in profile, but different in a top-down view. Maine patterns are not as thick as Wedge patterns are.
 
I can't verify convex cheeks before at least 2nd half of 19th century, so I have several flat cheeked axes to see what the people on the frontier had. Flat cheeks work fine. They do stick a little more in some situations, but it is not something apparently that made a big difference until large timber operations on big trees became the norm. Convex cheeked axes were not commonly made by smiths, they were made in factories, I think, and that goes double for phantom bevels. So, why should a smith waste time on a design from the machine age, when there's plenty of factory made examples still available?
 
BG_Farmer said:
I can't verify convex cheeks before at least 2nd half of 19th century, so I have several flat cheeked axes to see what the people on the frontier had. Flat cheeks work fine. They do stick a little more in some situations, but it is not something apparently that made a big difference until large timber operations on big trees became the norm. Convex cheeked axes were not commonly made by smiths, they were made in factories, I think, and that goes double for phantom bevels. So, why should a smith waste time on a design from the machine age, when there's plenty of factory made examples still available?
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I would say to distinguish themselves as the best of the best, and to differentiate themselves from companies like GB.
I'm starting to understand why they don't do it, but still think it's something that the axe enthusiasts who buy them ( the average Joe non enthusiast would probably just go to harbor freight or home Depot ) would appreciate.
 
BG_Farmer said:
Convex cheeked axes were not commonly made by smiths, they were made in factories, I think, and that goes double for phantom bevels. So, why should a smith waste time on a design from the machine age, when there's plenty of factory made examples still available?
Click to expand...

Of course they were made by smiths. I think they started when users brought their worn axes with short toes and heels back to the smith for repair. The fastest repair was simply to move some metal forward from the cheeks to the heel and toe. And Voila! The beveled axe was born. Users quickly realized that the new shape was better than the old. And a revolution in axes was made.
 
The average axe enthusiast would probably still not pay the price for a custom one, would restore 5 vintage ones in the mean time (instead of waiting in line to have one forged for him) and write some more on forums about how the old axes were so much better :P.
 
Moonw said:
The average axe enthusiast would probably still not pay the price for a custom one, would restore 5 vintage ones in the mean time (instead of waiting in line to have one forged for him) and write some more on forums about how the old axes were so much better :p.
Click to expand...

Average ( smart ) axe enthusiasts definitely do go for vintage axes first, but you'd still have to be an enthusiast to some degree to want an expensive custom axe.
I sort of get the feeling that those who buy a hand forged custom axe , buy them to feel superior for owning something so expensive.
I guess there are those who don't care about axes and use a HF axe, those who do care and use something vintage, and hipsters who buy a custom or something like a best made just because it's hand crafted ( overpriced boutique jobbie )
 
Competition axes are pretty flat cheeked, and they work with very soft wood...don't see them dealing with sticking too often.
 
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