Modern hand forged axes with flat cheeks ?

Would you buy a new custom or hand forged axe with flat cheeks ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • No

    Votes: 11 45.8%
  • Total voters
    24
Square_peg said:
Radial grinds suck for my uses. Too thick in the middle, too thin at the heel and toe. Draw filing jigs have no appeal to me. My hands and eyes know what angles I want to achieve. The placement of the axe in the vise for sharpening also helps control the bevel angle. I try to control the placement of the axe in the vise so that I'm filing close to level for the majority of my work.
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I have a Plumb I am putting on a 34" handle I want to try a bannana grind on. It is going to be my "green pine" axe. But there is no way in hell I am doing the grind. I am a working edge sharpening kind of guy.
 
Woodcraft said:
I have a Plumb I am putting on a 34" handle I want to try a bannana grind on. It is going to be my "green pine" axe. But there is no way in hell I am doing the grind. I am a working edge sharpening kind of guy.
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Do you want to send it here for filing? I'll do you a freebie. It would be good to get feedback on how my grinds work for others.
 
I'm in the believer of High centerlines camp. Hickory n steel Hickory n steel add the Council Tools hatchet to the list of currently produced axes with high centerlines. They work for me and my uses which involve bucking, limbing, and Splitting. This past weekend I ended up using an old Bingham's XLCR hatchet on a long handle over my Gransfors SFA. It just simply put did a better job for the tasks at hand. I attribute that to the high centerline, but also the longer and thinner handle.

XLCR Camp Axe by MJGEGB, on Flickr

As for the discussion of when high centerlines came about. The axes Bernie posted up from the 1700s both had high centerlines. I would say they have been in use for a reasonable amount of time.
 
Hacked said:
I'm in the believer of High centerlines camp. Hickory n steel Hickory n steel add the Council Tools hatchet to the list of currently produced axes with high centerlines. They work for me and my uses which involve bucking, limbing, and Splitting. This past weekend I ended up using an old Bingham's XLCR hatchet on a long handle over my Gransfors SFA. It just simply put did a better job for the tasks at hand. I attribute that to the high centerline, but also the longer and thinner handle.

As for the discussion of when high centerlines came about. The axes Bernie posted up from the 1700s both had high centerlines. I would say they have been in use for a reasonable amount of time.
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The Classic Jersey has a high centerline, as well. Probably a bunch of the others, too.
 
Hacked said:
I'm in the believer of High centerlines camp.

...

As for the discussion of when high centerlines came about. The axes Bernie posted up from the 1700s both had high centerlines. I would say they have been in use for a reasonable amount of time.
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You mean these? I don't see what I'd call a high centerline, but maybe I'm missing something.
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/historic-axes-18th-century.1383910/

Either way, I loved an excuse to find that thread again!

PS. I see old Axeman describes the first one as having a high center grind. Pretty subtle in profile, thoughl
 
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BG_Farmer said:
You mean these? I don't see what I'd call a high centerline, but maybe I'm missing something.
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/historic-axes-18th-century.1383910/

Either way, I loved an excuse to find that thread again!

PS. I see old Axeman describes the first one as having a high center grind. Pretty subtle in profile, thoughl
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That's the thread. If you look closely at the first picture you will notice that it does indeed have a high centerline. Also here is what O Old Axeman had to say about the axe himself. "The head weighs about 2.5lbs, it has a high center grind, it has forge welded insert bit and a forge welded poll" from the same thread. Plus always good to have an excuse to dig that one up. If anyone is ever in Hawaii they need to go photograph his collection and catalog it ;-)
 
High Centerline Action by MJGEGB, on Flickr

Here is a picture that I took to demonstrate the effectiveness of an old high centerline ground axe. The wood is wedged and pushed up and out of the cut so that the edge can continue to cut. The high centerline simply reduces surface area in contact and thus friction.


Belt Axe Top by MJGEGB, on Flickr

Belt Axe Bit Profile by MJGEGB, on Flickr

Belt Axe side A by MJGEGB, on Flickr

Here is an old smith forged hand axe that I own. I have no idea who made it, or when but I'm guessing that it's probably one of the oldest axes I own. It also has a pronounced high centerline, though due to depth of field it doesn't show up in all of the pictures.
 
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Hacked said:
That's the thread. If you look closely at the first picture you will notice that it does indeed have a high centerline. Also here is what O Old Axeman had to say about the axe himself. "The head weighs about 2.5lbs, it has a high center grind, it has forge welded insert bit and a forge welded poll" from the same thread. Plus always good to have an excuse to dig that one up. If anyone is ever in Hawaii they need to go photograph his collection and catalog it ;-)
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Maybe Old Axeman will see this and comment. From the pictures, I really don't see what I'd call high centerline or convex cheeks forged on purpose, just ground ever so slightly thinner top and bottom. From my experience, just that little bit makes a difference, but I'd still consider the cheeks flat.

On your old axe, I can definitely see the convex!
 
The pictures of my axe in question has a forged high centerline as well as a slight grind. The pictures mostly show just the slight grind. I would describe it as a small high centerline compared to what we usually are calling a high centerline on this forum, but it is also not the flat grind that we refer to. In use, it chops like a high centerline and not a flat grind.
 
Old Axeman,
Thanks! That is great information. Those two axes are the best documents! I read too much into your use of phrase "high center grind".

We saw yesterday a 1938 Kelly/True Temper catalog that basically says WC Kelly invented our current conception of high centerline and convex cheeks sometime in the 1870s, but it is not surprising that some elements of his innovation were around before.
 
BG_Farmer said:
We saw yesterday a 1938 Kelly/True Temper catalog that basically says WC Kelly invented our current conception of high centerline and convex cheeks sometime in the 1870s, but it is not surprising that some elements of his innovation were around before.
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I don't think Kelly invented it. I think he just recognized its value and had the good sense to market it.
 
Square_peg said:
I don't think Kelly invented it. I think he just recognized its value and had the good sense to market it.
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I agree in principle, as that is how a lot of things get invented. Not the first to use elements known to the art, but to put them together in a new and effective way. I will say his design must have been fairly innovative as the company is still touting it 60 years later, though by then from the perspective of having been first, as the other companies had long ago adopted similar designs.

A patent search would be in order.
 
Yes, he certainly marketed it and well.

Old Axeman has shown us a convex cheeked axe that pre-dates Kelly by 100 years.
 
To be fair the original Kelly perfect axes had beveled cheeks and may very well have been an original design. Kelly and TrueTemper axes are probably my favorite. While there was almost certainly some marketing in there well marketing, they definitely knew what they were doing, probably more so than any axe manufacturer around today.
 
Square peg,
VERY subtly convexed! Probably the smith was top flight and experienced, perhaps even discovered the benefit himself in a scenario such as you suggested earlier, but the point I've been hanging on is that Old Axeman's high centerline axe is not a huge departure visually from completely flat cheeked axes which do appear to have predominated at least until the 1870s if we believe the Kelly story. Or am I reading too much into that?

For my purposes, I actually like the looks of OAs axe better than the full on fat convex, and I think the slight convex would not compromise the advantage of flat cheeks in some applications. Outside the timber industry, people used a single axe where we probably use a dozen tools, at least for rough work.

Anyway, maybe the custom makers should look at OAs axe as an example!
 
Here's an example of a "high centerline" axe that was probably made around 1864-1871, before Kelly's patent:

300Six said:
McLean%20test%20tree%20and%20axes%20005%20Medium_zps5pbnqmre.jpg
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Another example in the middle of the photo below (also posted by 300Six) was stamped with a different maker's name but shows a similar high centerline:

300Six said:
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Autum%202016%20015%20Medium_zpsescrqxba.jpg

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These heads both resemble the profile drawing of an "American axe" that appeared in an old book, the first edition of which was published in 1863 (before translation from German to English):

content


The text identifies it as a Kenebec American axe, made in two sizes, 5-1/2 and 7 pounds including the handle.

from
Schlich's Manual of Forestry: Forest utilization, by W. R. Fisher; being an ...
By Sir William Schlich, William Rogers Fisher, Richard Alexander Hess, Karl Gayer
Second edition, 1908
 
I have been thinking, maybe I should find an America smith who would like to reproduce my axe for sale. I would require it to be made exactly as the original is with the forge welded insert bit and forge welded poll. What do you think, and what American smith do you think might be interested and able to do this ?
 
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