Modern Scout knife - Need help

Jeffj - i was (mildly) concerned that Spyderco seemed to be trying to standardize on RED == TRAINER, and confusion could occur if somebody picked up their scout and thought it was, say, their delica trainer.

Unlikely, but not impossible. It really doesn't seem like much of a problem...
 
Sal, whatever style of scout knife you decide on if you make it I'll buy it. My nephew is approaching the age where he'll soon deserve a good first knife and I can't think of a better brand for that than Spyderco. Heck, maybe I'll even buy one for myself as well!
 
I would opt for something slim and light. My perfect combo would be knife, saw and combo tool (can opener, bottle opener and screwdriver). In fact, although not really a camp knife, I think a trapper style Spydie with knife and saw (saw does not need to have an opening hole) would be very nice.
 
I have nothing to add to the different types of tools, etc. I would echo an3-3.5" blade with a lock, and maybe a saw on the other side. I agree that if they want to added tools, they hould carry something else (i.e. Multitol). Boys will be boys and will buying things based on the coolness factor, as was already mentioned, but I would like to stress a couple of things in my humble opinion:

Locking plain edge blade 3-3.5" long (i.e. delica, not sheepsfoot or round pointed)
Maybe a saw or something, like the Dyad configuration of old (small spydersaw??)
FRN handles to keep the price down
and the price is the final thing. Definately no more than 35 dollars. When I was a scout if I wanted anything over 40 dollars or so that meant a trip to talk to parents or waiting until Christmas or birthday. I know some scouts who had expensive knives and when they lost them, it was a big deal to them, but if it is a god knife that was reasonaly priced and they lose it, they can get it replaced a little easier than a 65 dollar knife.

Oh yeah and I think the clip idea is a bad one. I agree, scouts should learn to use a sheath at first. Maybe have an optional clip? I dont know, just my two cents.

Thanks for the thread, this is the best one I have seen in a while.

Garrett
 
Keep the blade under 3" so it is legal almost everywhere. Read the notice on your post office door about concealed weapons. Be heck to be arrested for a boy scout knife having too long a blade.

Very bright color (with good publicity campaign) not normally used so sheeple learn to associate that color with Boy Scouts. Maybe bright orange so you could also find it when you lay it down or drop it or glow in the dark as previously suggested or a combination of both. How about half bright color and a contrasting glow in dark color on EACH side. Very distinctive.

Sheepsfoot design or spearpoint. No pointy like Delica blades. Tweezers for inevitable slivers. No cork-screw. Locking main blade. VGT-10 steel. Fingernail file w/flat bit screwdriver on end. AWL.

I don't agree on $30-$35. Go to any JR-High or High School. See what percentage are wearing $100-$150 tennis shoes. If they can afford those, they can afford $75 for something that is going to last more than 1-2 years. Put some real quality into it and you might be surprised how many adults would buy one.

Remember, most of the scouts ARE going to have some sort of multi-tool with them.
 
I would like a scout knife with a non threatening looking, plain edged, one hand opening blade that locks, just under 2 ½” in length to be legal most anywhere knives are not already prohibited.


I would also consider a wood saw, can opener, a screw driver of some sort, lanyard attachment, tweezers and a good awl to be “must haves”.


A pen, toothpick and scissors would be nice to have but not essential. The knife should not be too thick to carry in a pocket comfortably - preferably no thicker than about 5/8”. A pocket clip would be nice too.


A “premium” blade steel would also be welcome, but if it increases the price point too much above the price of a SAK, it might not sell. Maybe the premium steel should be an option for those of us who would want it.


I think that an internet price of $35-40 for the basic knife would be about right and the quality should match the Victorinox SAKs.


Since fixed blade knives are no longer allowed at many scout functions, I think that a folding version of the Bill Moran Drop point would also be a great idea, maybe with a leather belt pouch instead of a clip.






- Frank
 
As for coloration, I would go for any of the usual earthy tones- browns, tans, etc. Red is pretty much V-nox territory, and light colors will simply absorb dirt quickly.
 
I think a modern Scout knife needs to be fairly simple.

1. One hand opening main blade of 3 inches
2. Pocket clip. People expect a pocket clip on their folding knives
3. Small blade of about 1.5 inches
4. Both types of screwdrivers
5. Can/bottle opener
6. Wood saw
7. File w/ edge for light metal cutting
8. Quality scissors
9. Toothpick and tweezers...maybe a pen
10. Whistle built into handle

The price point needs to be around $30.00. Scouts can likely afford this amount and parents will probably be willing to spend this much if the knife is a gift. Cutting blades should be made of a decent steel. I think that AUS8 or VG-10 would be an economical choice. FRN scales over metal would make a nice, durable handle.
 
Back on the idea of the hex driver being built into the knife... what if you just put a hexagonal hole straight through the handle and the blade? You can then have the whole solidity of the blade and the axle between blade and handle acting as leverage. Have some kind of system where, when the knife is closed, dropping the hex screwdriver bits through the hole locks it in place, allowing the entire knife to be used as a handle to the bit.

Probably a dumb idea, but possibly not.
 
I've got to ask the question: We are doing this for Boy Scouts...right?

It sounds like a lot of the features being requested are not for Scouts. A few of the tools are okay, but many will go completely unused. I don't know any Scout who uses the bottle opener, for instance, that is a tool which has long since expired in usefulness. All those tools will also drive the price considerable higher than $35 to $50 that most agree as the appropriate range. If you want a good knife for Scouts...keep it simple.

Just something to think about.

I guess my approach is more utilitarian and less "cool factor". I just want to train the Scouts to use a good knife. Right now there is no knife being marketed as a Scout knife that I would consider just a "good" knife.

I would add to my previous post and echo what others have already requested...add a pocket clip. Very useful to clip to pocket or gear and less likely to be lost during regular activity.

Jeff
 
I guess the big question is: are they carrying a multi-tool or not. If they are, then the knife can just be a knife. If not, what tools might they want/need?

Scissors are incredibly useful... but not usually spyderco territory. Tweezers, well, they can be dropped in the handle pretty cheaply. I really like the idea of the hex driver being in the knife, so you just throw some bits in your pocket and go, if you think you'll need a screwdriver.

A corkscrew is the one tool you just can't fake with anything else, but how much wine do Scouts drink? I'd think they're more likely to be beer and corn whiskey types...

I just don't know.
 
Muppet,

What do you need a hex drive for? I go on monthly outings with Scouts and nobody ever carries a hex driver. There's never a need for one. This includes, canoeing, hiking, climbing, backpacking, camping, etc. I have a Victorinox Craftsman that has a pair of pliers I use in a pinch, but have used them once on trips over the last 5 years and that was not to drive a nut.

I'm just curious?

Jeff

---
Sorry...I misread your previous post...you want to include some bits. I have a box full of lost clothing, utensils, gear, and miscellanous parts from each outing (but no knives yet :grumpy: ), so I would not suggest loose bits to keep track of with your knife.
 
The idea is to substitute something cheap (a hexagonal hole in the body of the knife) for something expensive: extra blades to mount screwdrivers on.

That way, for the average scout who doesn't need a screwdriver, the knife is a few dollars cheaper, but for the guy who wants to have screwdrivers, they just drop a couple of hex bits in their bag and go.
 
Perhaps I can make this somewhat easier in stating that I am targeting ALL Scouts, 11 to 18. The younger Scouts need it SIMPLE. The older Scouts know the value of a good knife...or at least my Scouts do. So given that as my criteria, I think I would want something simple, yet effective. I'm just not into gadgets unless they are useful. I've long since learned, "Be Prepared" does not mean to bring everything with you. Knowledge and innovation are your best tools. When I go out, my tools are very simple. One reliable single-blade locking knife and sometimes a SAK. Duct tape for emergencies. :D

It sounds like you have a much older Scout in mind. One that can keep track of things like bits. Most of my older Scouts carry single-bladed knives. None carry the multitools. I don't know if that is consistent with most troops. Given the current market, most probably would carry the tactical-style single blade knives, but probably also own a multitool for camping.

Jeff
 
My friend Walter, who I asked to contribute something

-------------------------------------------

First, who I am (sort of).

Cub Scout for 4 years.
Boy Scout for 6 years (Sadly, only got to Life Scout)
Adult Leader for the past 8 years.

Camping with the Boy Scouts. Never made it National Jamboree. :(
- can't tell you how many
Camping on my own (with friends) since college.
- can't tell you how many
Camping as a family right after I met my wife
- can't tell you how many
Camping with my boys once they could walk, barley! ;)
- can't tell you how many
Camping with my boys Cub Scout Pack for the last 5 years
- 5 annual winter overnights
- 5 summer camps, 5 days/4 night
Camping with my boys Boy Scout Troop since they "crossed over" last Feb.
- been on 8 Troop overnights 1 or 2 nights out
- been to 1 Troop summer camp 6days/5 nights

So, I've been camping.

Now, as for a "Scout Knife".

They don't need a cork screw
They don't need a bottle opener

Safety should be first in mind.
Remember, these are boys from 11 to 18 years old. Experience is all over
the board.

A hard sharp point is a bit dangerous.
Rounded "point" is safer.
Must be easy to sharpen and keep its edge for a long time.
A dull knife is dangerous.

Legal limit is a good idea. Too many Scouts have been arrested for
having a scout knife on them, or in their pack, because they forgot they
had it.

An Eagle Scout was arrested in school for having his scout knife in the
TRUCK of his car, in his pack, in its sheath. He forgot to clean out his
car after a camping trip, and someone wanted to "get him". They got him.
He was arrested and expelled. Thank God he already had is Eagle,
otherwise he would have NEVER received it.

Think about what a Scout does at camp.
- Cuts rope
- trims limbs
- cuts fabric
- eats with it
- "whittles" with it (or attempts to)

My "Scout knives" have 2 or 3 blade lengths.

I've not really needed more than that. In fact, I've rarely used the
middle length blade.

Now, a pair of tweezers would be nice once in a while.

I have a Swiss Knife that has:
- Long blade
- short blade
- scissors
- screw driver head (flat)
- screw driver head (Phillips)
- bottle opener
- tweezers
- tooth pick

I've used the blades.
I've used the flat screw driver hear, not for screws.
I've used the tweezers
I've used the tooth pick

that's it.

Now, I bought a "special" scout knife. It had only 2 blades, but it had
the Scout logo on it and the handle was made of wood. Real cool! The
boys of the troop really like it.

I bought a smaller knife for my boys when they earned their knife safety
card in Cub Scouts (3rd grade). Small, for small hands. Blue, for Cub
Scouts. Cub Scout logo on it. The love it.

When they reached First Class, I bought them a 2 blade knife with the
BSA logo on it.

I told them, when they reach Eagle (next year at the rate their going) I
will try and find them a wooden handle knife like mine.

Price should be less than $50.

So, I hope this helps a bit.
 
More from Walter.

---------------------

Saws are saws, not something on a knife! Too dangerous: you don't cut timber with a knife

Price is important as money goes to camp and gear. The more costly the gear, the less change of purchase, and most scouts I know don't own $100 shoes. They're smarter thatn that.

$100 shoes is 3 camping trips or half of summer camp
 
On the hex drive thing: think of it as an expansion port. If you need screwdrivers, you just bring the bits, and if you don't, your knife has a funny-looking hexagonal hole somewhere on it.

Younger scouts never use them, older, geekier ones who want to take the back off their lantern and futz with it, do.
 
More from walter:

http://www.intrex.net/agbiotech/scoutknf.htm

Long list of uses for a scout knife, and some other tips and useful material. Actually very relevant to our discussion.

http://www.scoutingaround.com/boy_scouts/totinchip/knife_policy.html

Including the choice quote on why fixed blades are banned:

Many years ago the BSA sold official sheath knives however scouts had to one up each other till scouts were carrying machetes. At that point most camps banned all sheath/fixed blade knives.
 
Here's the OFFICIAL policy:

A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

Remember—knives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Cub Scout Book, and Wolf Cub Scout Book
 
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