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[jgloveracob]

Polished vs. Toothy

Some like polished, some toothy, But thats just their opinion right?
I sat down and thought about it today and thought I would add some FACT to the argument.
Well here is some NON biased FACTS about the edges.

From a scientific point of view everything has electrons on the outside and protons on the inside. Same charges repel so a cut is the repelling of electrons in-turn separating the material. So a polished edges seems like the best because it has a solid V of steel. That is ALMOST correct. It is very well at separating materials and SHOULD last longer. Toothy edges are just as thin, but the "Teeth" offer more surface area resulting in better cutting force. But would seem less durable.

So in a scientific point of view the two edges are ABOUT the SAME. Cutting area Vs. Durability. The polished SHOULD be more durable, And the toothy SHOULD cut better.

So I think its all about what YOU like, how YOU sharpen, and what YOU want to do.

I like both.

 

[Ultimate]

Sorry but the repulsion of subatomic particles is NOT related to cutting, at least in the sense you are referring to. Cutting is achieved by a knife (or anything) applying enough physical force to overcome the intermolecular forces of the material that hold it together.

You contradict yourself anyway when you say this: "but the "Teeth" offer more surface area resulting in better cutting force."...unless you were referring to the repulsive forces, which is incorrect anyway.

A polished edge won't always be more durable, and a toothy edge won't always cut better.

You are right about one thing though: "its all about what YOU like, how YOU sharpen, and what YOU want to do."

 

[jgloveracob]

Atoms are everywhere. Two like atoms want to be as far away from each other as possible. if alot of atoms are packed into a small area (cutting edge) then the thin area will repel the atoms on the material you touch it to resulting in a cut.

The way you say it is describing splitting the atom apart. We have never done that.

 

[jgloveracob]

Sorry but the repulsion of subatomic particles is NOT related to cutting, at least in the sense you are referring to. Cutting is achieved by a knife (or anything) applying enough physical force to overcome the intermolecular forces of the material that hold it together.
Answered in post above

You contradict yourself anyway when you say this: "but the "Teeth" offer more surface area resulting in better cutting force."...unless you were referring to the repulsive forces, which is incorrect anyway.
In this I mean that it has more surface area, just like a serrated edge has more surface area

A polished edge won't always be more durable, and a toothy edge won't always cut better.
But from a scientific point of view it SHOULD, meaning that it is expected, But dosnt always happen

You are right about one thing though: "its all about what YOU like, how YOU sharpen, and what YOU want to do."
Glad you see it my way

My responses in red

 

[stitchawl]

The way you say it is describing splitting the atom apart. We have never done that.

Don't worry... All you need is a little more practice at sharpening.



Stitchawl

 

[KennyB]

Atoms are everywhere. Two like atoms want to be as far away from each other as possible. if alot of atoms are packed into a small area (cutting edge) then the thin area will repel the atoms on the material you touch it to resulting in a cut.

The way you say it is describing splitting the atom apart. We have never done that.

What you're describing is far more like splitting an atom than what Ultimate described. If we reference Verhoeven sharpening experiments, then your average straight-razor's edge apex is .34 microns when measured with a 3,000 electron scanning microscope. .34 microns is practically gigantic when compared to an atomic scale. You've heard of nanotechnology recently, right? A micron is equal to 1000 nanometers; currently the smallest scale you're going to see in something like home computing is 45 nanometer. I don't remember what it was called, but I also saw that the world's sharpest syringe point ( used in cloning and stem cell research to inject into cells ) is about 100 nanometers; and that's just a cell that we're talking about, it could be comprised of trillions of atoms.

So anyway, Ultimate is closer, but even then I think only the truly sharp edges are interacting with single molecules, and of course it all depends on the size of the molecules themselves too, but for the most part the reason an edge cuts is because it concentrates pressure into this point to such a degree that the edge breaks the bonds of the molecules. I don't remember the exact application being discussed, but I once heard it said that the force that is exerted at the very edge of the apex is right around 30,000 PSI. So it has a lot more to do with force than things happening on a small scale.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure scientists first split the atom in the 1930s.

 

[Jason B.]

How are these facts?



Kenny, IIRC the 30k psi was only for 1 foot pound on a 1 micron edge too. I also thought it was something a little more unbelievable like 1 million psi. Any math experts in the house wanna crunch some numbers?

 

[pwet]

oh god not anymore ....


and this time with pseudo scientific blah blah ....

i'll pass.

 

[singularity35]

so what happens on a molecular level when cutting?

 

[jgloveracob]

So anyway, Ultimate is closer, but even then I think only the truly sharp edges are interacting with single molecules, and of course it all depends on the size of the molecules themselves too, but for the most part the reason an edge cuts is because it concentrates pressure into this point to such a degree that the edge breaks the bonds of the molecules.

The edge donsnt need to be the size of an atom to repel one. The amount of electrons on the edge will repel the electrons on the cutting surface (as long as the edge is harder than the material being cut) which separates the materials.

 

[xtestifyx]

I love how these are facts that came from no research.

Could I also add that I've split an atom with a Mirror edge? Fact!

 

[jgloveracob]

I love how these are facts that came from no research.

Could I also add that I've split an atom with a Mirror edge? Fact!

I never said that I researched it. This is what i learned in my chemistry class last year, its just in THEORY.

I should change the word fact to Theory.

 

[Ultimate]

I never said that I researched it. This is what i learned in my chemistry class last year, its just in THEORY.

You didn't by any chance fail that class, did you?

 

[Ultimate]

but for the most part the reason an edge cuts is because it concentrates pressure into this point to such a degree that the edge breaks the bonds of the molecules.

This is what I was trying to say. I suck at words.

 

[RubiconSS]

oh god not anymore ....


and this time with pseudo scientific blah blah ....

i'll pass.

This toothy vs polished really has gotten nuts.

 

[unit]

This toothy vs polished really has gotten nuts.

Amen to that!

I do not want to come off as an ass here (but I probably will anyway). When I saw the subject line.... Putting the word "fact" in all caps amounts to web-speak for screaming the word "fact"...screaming does not necessarily make an idea more correct

Congratulations though, we have now elevated the an argument about one of the most primitive tools to the atomic physics level!

Have a great weekend guys. This thread really puts a smile on my face!

 

[thombrogan]

Atoms are everywhere.

Not in my house! Hate those stupid things with a vengeance! :grumpy:

Outside of my house, I've been carrying and using a serrated hawkbill (Spyderco Tasman Salt SE) that I've polished using a felt wheel loaded with Flitz. The serrations make it extremely toothy (ala a 10 and 24 grit finish depending on the scallop size) and the Flitz finish makes it very polished.

I use it for cutting whatever needs cutting and cardboard. The problem is that its simultaneous mixture of being extremely polished and extremely toothy has caused fluxes in the space time continuum that aren't always pleasant.

Sure, one time a being from the future who could levitate appeared from the future and asked me to sharpen his Kershaw JYD II pocketknife and Konosuke HD kitchen knife and that was very cool. One other time, though, and I was just opening a bag of navel oranges, a bunch of Sleestacks came out of nowhere and ate every last kibble in my cat's dish and that sucked.

FACT!

 

[RubiconSS]

Not in my house! Hate those stupid things with a vengeance! :grumpy:

Outside of my house, I've been carrying and using a serrated hawkbill (Spyderco Tasman Salt SE) that I've polished using a felt wheel loaded with Flitz. The serrations make it extremely toothy (ala a 10 and 24 grit finish depending on the scallop size) and the Flitz finish makes it very polished.

I use it for cutting whatever needs cutting and cardboard. The problem is that its simultaneous mixture of being extremely polished and extremely toothy has caused fluxes in the space time continuum that aren't always pleasant.

Sure, one time a being from the future who could levitate appeared from the future and asked me to sharpen his Kershaw JYD II pocketknife and Konosuke HD kitchen knife and that was very cool. One other time, though, and I was just opening a bag of navel oranges, a bunch of Sleestacks came out of nowhere and ate every last kibble in my cat's dish and that sucked.

FACT!

I tried to buy a bag of Naval Oranges last week (They were out of the Army Oranges) I asked for a bag of "innies" and they gave me "outties" - it was obvious to me this was an attempt at intra-service embarrassment so I asked them Polished or Toothy? They threw the oranges at me and called security.
Very stressful.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

I never said that I researched it. This is what i learned in my chemistry class last year, its just in THEORY.

I should change the word fact to Theory.

I've taken organic chem, inorganic chem, genetics, and all that jazz. Never once did I think of knives - only when I could leave.

 

[EvilOlivE]

If this all happens at subatomic levels shouldn't I just be able to place my blade on a piece of paper and have it explode in a puff of glittery magic?