Mora knives: I've seen the light

[littleknife]

This week I got a couple of Eriksson Mora knives from Ragnar.
These are not my first Scandinavian blades. Previously I purchased and used a few stainless steel Marttiini knives, which I liked a lot.

I have hold a few times in my hand a stainless Frosts Mora clipper, but I was not particularly impressed with the shape of the handle or the feel of the rubberized grip.
I have never before seen in person any Eriksson Moras.
I was frequently reading about the wooden handled Moras in these Forums, in Mors Kochanski's Bushcraft and in Cody Lundins book, but I was always wondering why would one choose such an inexpensive knife as a survival or outdoor knife.
One of the reasons I was so hesitant was that I always thought that the classic wooden handled Moras had completely round in cross section handles.
This is due to the fact that all the pictures I have seen showing them are only sideviews.

Last week I decided to order a few of the different Mora models, they are not that expensive after all.

My obvious source to buy them was Ragnar (Ragweedforge), from whom I have received excellent customer service in the past .

Not only is he a great person to deal with but he also has a wast selection of Scandinavian knives:

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html

I have ordered the following knives:

- the wood handled #2 and #1241 Eriksson Moras

http://www.ragweedforge.com/mora.jpg

- the wood handled carbon steel #22 with leather sheath

http://www.ragweedforge.com/22.jpg

- the carbon steel # 510 with red plastic handle and no guard

http://www.ragweedforge.com/510.jpg

- the stainless steel #546 with blue plastic handle and guard

http://www.ragweedforge.com/546.jpg

My first impression is that these are high quality working knives. They might be inexpensive but are definitely not "cheap".

The wood handled ones have a nice oval crossection and are extremely comfortable to hold in variety of grips. Now it downed on me why are the outdoor experts recommending them highly.

The plastic handled ones are even more comfortable and secure. The grippy texture is not abrasive though and they securely snap into their sheaths. These plastic handled models won't fall out if turned upside down.

All knives arrived sharp and pointy. They would not shave but are close.
The blades are polished to a dull mirror finish with a few fine grinding marks still visible here and there. The back of the blades were roughly finished only, which is more than appropriate given their price.

For some reason I imagined thinner blades and was pleasantly surprised that these knives are not skinny paring knives. The blades are sufficiently strong to prevent easy flexing while still thin enough for very efficient slicing or cutting.

The guard on the stainless model I bought is large and restricts the variety of grips one can apply on this model. It might be an ideal outdoor or survival blade though for childrens, inexperienced users or in conditions restricting a secure knife grip, like arthritis, wet/slippery work, use of gloves/mittens etc.

THe guardless plastic handled model actually has a tiny protrusion which acts as a limited guard. It is not so pronounced though as the one on the Frosts clipper models. This knife is an excellent whittler: the blade lenghth, width and the handle shape are optimal or excelent for a great variety of cuts.

The Eriksson carbon steel is hardened to R 60, the stainless to 58, which makes them slightly harder than the Frosts blades.

Finally there is the #22 in carbon steel. This is definitely one of my new favorites. It looks an upscale version of the classic #2, with a steel buttcap and end rivet.
I requested the optional hot wax treatment of the leather sheath from Ragnar.
The result is stunning (and the picture does not reflect the true beauty of the actual result). Not only makes the wax the sheath look nice warm brown but it also feels very smooth yet not plastic like.
The ash handle is not as smooth as the red birch handles of the classic Moras, so it provides a better grip.

These knives became my new favorites and I am going to order couple more of them like the stainless guardles model:

http://www.ragweedforge.com/545.jpg

I think the plastic handled models are real sleepers, I don't see them mentioned too frequently as outdoor or survival blades.
As for me, from now on they will go with me on all of my outdoor trips.
I am very happy I discovered these knives, and the only thing I regret is that I did not buy them earlier.

littleknife

 

[OTguy]

I used to have a red handled no.1 Mora, also bought after reading about how lots of experts say they are great survival knives. Some field experience showed they may not be the best choice because of smooth handles and guardless design. I used one for a hunting knife a few years back and experianced lots of slipping and turning of the knife while field dressing a deer. I didn't get cut, but it was a near thing, which was lucky because they do get razor sharp. This led me to think about using the knife in real survival situations. Think about it, its getting dark and you are lost, cold ,tired and probably a little bit scared. Its been raining and things are wet and slippery and you need to get a fire started soon, so you are trying to hurry along and you loose your concentration for a second. The Mora in your hand hits a piece of wood you were going to batton into pieces and Whoops! your hand slides up 4 inches of razor sharp steel. A bad situation just got alot worse, possibly life threatening.

Don't misunderstand me, I love scandi knives, I have 5 of them and think the blade grinds are wonderful, but all 5 of them either have some type of guard or contoured handle to prevent slippage and turning under wet conditions. I happen to think the Clipper handle design is very good and the Mora2000 excellent. The grippy soft plastic handles are much more secure under wet conditions. The red handled Mora has a place in your survival battery, but to me that is a supplementary knife to use when you can focus and its dry. They have great steel and make wonderful utility knives, but I think there are better choices for a true survival knife.

 

[pict]

I love Mora knives as well. I've had very good experiences so far with the Frost's Mora SWAK. I have three of them, one Clipper and a red handled #1, they have been great knives.

I came to the same conclusions about the red handled #1 as a survival knife. The last thing I want in a survival situation is a deep ugly slice through my right index finger! The guard on the SWAK is sufficient to prevent this and doesn't interfere with the necessary cuts you have to make. Mac

 

[elvenbladesmith07]

OTguy, i understand exactly what you mean. thats why i chopped of the handle and attached a better one of walnut wood, with an integral guard and pommel. i also made a better sheath of leather, and threw away the black plastic one. i have the #2 1/2, and like it alot after i fixed it up a bit. put a square back on it so i can stike flints, and it has a serrated back, after a little space for flint striking. i like it alot, and carry it every where.

 

[skammer]

Good blades for the money but don't bet your life on them. They are limited in their overall utility and durability.

Skam

 

[rebeltf]

I have two , one I keep in my truck glovebox , the other is in my daily carry bag o' tricks. Both are great for small chores , I even use one in my kitchen if my dishes are dirty .
I wouldnt mind having one in my BOB at all , for those same small chores , but as a "first pick" survival blade , no way.
Although , either would surely be better than nothing.

 

[elvenbladesmith07]

theyd make a good trench knife, reminds me of the german trench knives of ww1.

 

[randjack]

Good blades for the money but don't bet your life on them. They are limited in their overall utility and durability.

Skam

I think those statements are true of any one knife.

Mora's steel reminds me more of medical blades than any american knife, and most other european blades, due to their flexibility and ease of sharpening. They can be very, very precise little blades.

 

[littleknife]

I have to agree with you gentlemen, that the wooden handled classic Moras are not the optimal choice for the "one and only" survival knife role. They are not designed to be that, even though they can work in that role, as it was proven by Mors Kochansky and Cody Lundin.
However, since I don't have their knowledge neither their skills, my choice for a single survival blade would be also something with some kind of a guard, and maybe with a more substantial blade too.

On the other hand, the classic Moras are great utility knives, and I think they really excel in whittling and slicing. .
The classic Moras weigh close to nothing, so one can easily stash in the backpack at least one: they would make a great outdoor and camping knife on their own and perfect companion to a "true" survival blade.
After all, the typical survival knives, which are designed to chop, make power cuts and take more abuse are rarely good for finer slicing, whittling or carving.

The Eriksson plastic handled Moras are much more suited to the survival blade role. While they are not long and thick enough to chop or pry with, they provide very secure grip for power cuts.
The Eriksson #546 has more guard than one might need, so in cold, wet/slippery conditions it is a very safe knife to use.

The "guardless" Eriksson #510 (and its stainless steel cousin) have a very secure handle shape + a very grippy (yet not abrasive) surface texture, and the front knob on the handle acts as a small guard. These 3 features make these knives very secure even in wet or cold conditions.
While IMHO the plastic Erikssons have better designed and more secure handles, they are seldom mentioned, and are far less known than the just slightly larger Frosts SWAK. The only substantial difference is that the Frosts SWAK has a lanyard hole. However, aside from the boat knife scenario, this is not much of a consideration for knives so small anyway.
The Eriksson plastic models have a more secure sheath.

The Eriksson plastic models' handle shape is kind of a hybrid between that of a safe paring knife and of a puukko, thus allowing one to palm the knife, to perform light stabbing, variety of push and draw cuts. I think this handle shape, especially on the guardless models is much more versatile than the ones of the Frosts SWAK/Craftsman or Clipper models.

Their pictures you can see on the net (e.g. on Ragnar's website) do not give them justice, they are bigger and nicer in reality than they appear.
You might hate the classic Moras, but these plastic handled Erikssons are really safe and versatile for most outdoor knife chores and more than adequate in survival situations too.

 

[numberthree]

I'm a big fan of the Mora as well. I think assessing it in the context of an 'all in one' survival knife is sort of missing the point of this type of blade. It's designed to perform knife tasks with maximum efficiency; it's not a chopper, digger or prybar. Many of the outdoors writers who use the mora use it with at least one other tool such as an axe or saw. I think the 'one knife' survival myth is overblown, and causes people to select knives based on false criteria. I want a knife that cuts things well, I don't care if it'll chop down a tree or cut off a car door. The major limiting factor with ANY knife is the skill of the user.

 

[skammer]

" I think assessing it in the context of an 'all in one' survival knife is sort of missing the point of this type of blade. "

Why is that? I think its prudent to assume one may find themselves in a situation with only one blade so why not discuss this possibility.

"It's designed to perform knife tasks with maximum efficiency; it's not a chopper, digger or prybar. "

Some blades do all the above albeit not the best at any.


"Many of the outdoors writers who use the mora use it with at least one other tool such as an axe or saw. "

Most teachers use only one blade and its not a Mora.

" I think the 'one knife' survival myth is overblown, "

How is this a myth? Explain.

"and causes people to select knives based on false criteria."

What criteria? I think carrying 4 blades for different uses is plain dumb.

"I want a knife that cuts things well, I don't care if it'll chop down a tree or cut off a car door. "

I want a blade that will do anything I ask of it and more as said, the Mora is limited.

"The major limiting factor with ANY knife is the skill of the user."

There are 3 limiting factors. Blade shape/size, Blade steel/durability, users ability. Otherwise $5 dime store specials would be the blade of choice.

Skam

 

[UnixDork]

" I think assessing it in the context of an 'all in one' survival knife is sort of missing the point of this type of blade. "

Why is that? I think its prudent to assume one may find themselves in a situation with only one blade so why not discuss this possibility.

Why is it always assumed that the knife a person will have in the emergency is always the optimal one? If I found myself in a survival situation, I'm not going to lay down and die because I don't have my "survival knife" with me. I don't want to get in the rut of thinking that I must have my uber knife or I'm going to fail. That doesn't make me right or wrong, but that's what works for me.

"It's designed to perform knife tasks with maximum efficiency; it's not a chopper, digger or prybar. "

Some blades do all the above albeit not the best at any.

Some blades do one best, albeit are not good for all.

"Many of the outdoors writers who use the mora use it with at least one other tool such as an axe or saw. "

Most teachers use only one blade and its not a Mora.

Do they all use the same knife? Why not?

" I think the 'one knife' survival myth is overblown, "

How is this a myth? Explain.

Because it leads to this: http://www.ritualblades.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/BM1770_479220.gif and that's kinda silly, sorry.

"and causes people to select knives based on false criteria."

What criteria? I think carrying 4 blades for different uses is plain dumb.

Carrying a knife instead of a chain saw is, too. One knife for all cutting tasks is going to be compromise no matter how you look at it. Specialization or generalization are both just different types of compromise.

"I want a knife that cuts things well, I don't care if it'll chop down a tree or cut off a car door. "

I want a blade that will do anything I ask of it and more as said, the Mora is limited.

All knives are. A machete won't fit in my pocket. Does that make machetes worthless?

"The major limiting factor with ANY knife is the skill of the user."

There are 3 limiting factors. Blade shape/size, Blade steel/durability, users ability. Otherwise $5 dime store specials would be the blade of choice.

Skam

$5 dime store knives can still cut. For a lot of people, knives are used for cutting. My father is a prime example. If he saw me use a knife for chopping (even a knife built for it) he'd just laugh at me and tell me to get an axe. He's wrong in thinking that a knife can't chop. Axes work pretty well, though too.


I understand what you mean about overbuilt knives that are suitable for a wide range of tasks. I own knives like that. I don't own any Moras. But maybe these people who own them, use them and like them have found what works for their purposes.

 

[pict]

Mora's make great companion blades to a heavy hitter like an axe or machete.

The one knife concept is valid in my opinion as long as you understand the mix of compromises by your lblade choice and how they relate to the actual field conditions where you plan to be, what activities you plan to engage in etc.

If you select a highly specialized blade due to some overwhelming factor in your activities or area of operations then you can off-set it's limitations with a second blade that fills in the gaps.

Where I live a machete is essential, an axe is dead weight. A small fixed blade like a Mora off-sets the machete's weaknesses very well. Mac

 

[littleknife]

Mors Kochanski uses and recommends the wooden handled Moras as compoletely adequate tools for the boreal forests. He recommends an axe for the heavy chopping tasks. The weighth of the classic Moras is so small, that having them with you all the time (e.g. as a neck knife) is not a problem.
For him these knives are not as much survival, but everyday tools for living in the wilderness.

Cody Lundin uses and recommends highly either the classic wooden Moras (#1 or #2) or the rubberized plastic handled Frosts Clippers. He sells them in the store of his Aboriginal Survival Course and thinks they are more than adequate for surviving in a wide variety of terrains, climates and seasons: from forest to desert and all around the year.

There is also the factor of how to grip a knife. While the classic Moras are more than adequate to hold in a hammer grip, they are much more secure to hold with the butt of the handle nested in and resting against the lower middle of your plam. This is not a power grip, so it is not suited for chopping or very powerful cuts, but it is very versatile, and easy to modify depending on the requirements for the next cuts.

I find that any longer or thicker blade limits the ability of fine whittling or slicing, and knives with highly contoured handles are decreasing the variety of grips one can apply.
The Moras can do very efiiciently the work of a small folder while being much stronger, and also perform the vast majority of the large knife tasks one might need on a daily basis: food preparation, whittling, cutting smaller branches, cordage, packaging, scraping, boring small holes.

Once again, they are so light and so versatile, that make the perfect companion to an axe/hatchet, machete, saw or a "true" hevay survival knife..
And I bet, if you need a cutting tool in the outdoors, more than 90% of the time the Moras will be not only adequate, but are actually much better suited for the majority of one's outdoor cutting needs.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Mors Kochanski uses and recommends the wooden handled Moras as compoletely adequate tools for the boreal forests.

I do my outdoor "stuff" in a climax maple/beech forrest: very different woods to cut than pine/fir/larch/poplar.

He recommends an axe for the heavy chopping tasks.

More to the point, he carries an axe in his kit so the deficiencies of the Mora do not appear.

The weighth of the classic Moras is so small, that having them with you all the time (e.g. as a neck knife) is not a problem.

Very true IMO. I hardly notice my 2000 around my neck.

For him these knives are not as much survival, but everyday tools for living in the wilderness

He teaches bushcraft, not survival as such. Compare to Lundin's approach. To be sure, a proficient "bushcrafter" would have no trouble surviving, but there are relatively few of those.

Cody Lundin uses and recommends highly either the classic wooden Moras (#1 or #2) or the rubberized plastic handled Frosts Clippers. He sells them in the store of his Aboriginal Survival Course and thinks they are more than adequate for surviving in a wide variety of terrains, climates and seasons: from forest to desert and all around the year.

But he also thinks all SS knives are always harder than all carbon steel knives. Ergo, he has limited information from which to work. Has he ever tried a Swamp Rat Bandicoot, a Fallkniven F-1, a Bark River North Star, or an Alan Blade PackPal? His limited prospective is not surprising. The instructors in the survival training I took believed Ka-bars were the "only" thing, but they were Marines. I'd feel better about his opinion if he didn't compare the Moras to "Rambo" knives -- a pretty easy comparison to "win" for the Moras.
. . .

I find that any longer or thicker blade limits the ability of fine whittling or slicing, and knives with highly contoured handles are decreasing the variety of grips one can apply.

And, as you know, a shorter and thinner blade limits the ability to chop, slash brush, or baton larger hardwood. All selections are compromises, as someone already observed. A "neutral" handle is the best compromise.

The Moras can do very efiiciently the work of a small folder while being much stronger, and also perform the vast majority of the large knife tasks one might need on a daily basis: food preparation, whittling, cutting smaller branches, cordage, packaging, scraping, boring small holes.

As can numerous other knives in that size class -- some substantially thicker and some even shorter. But some acknowledged experts still favor folders (combined with a large fixed-blade and saw and/or axe).

Once again, they are so light and so versatile, that make the perfect companion to an axe/hatchet, machete, saw or a "true" hevay survival knife. And I bet, if you need a cutting tool in the outdoors, more than 90% of the time the Moras will be not only adequate, but are actually much better suited for the majority of one's outdoor cutting needs.

They are slicing machines, no doubt, and a great value.

 

[Fort Henry Custom Knives]

I have placed an Order for several of the Plastic handled varieties from Ragnar. I did so based on dozens of positive reviews on several different forums (including the one by Littleknife). The price for the Eriksson and Frosts knives are absolutely the best Bang for the Buck in the fixed blade category that you can find IMO.

For some reason this thread got diverted into a dissertation on the ultimate survival knife and why the Mora category is lacking. I had my share of Survival training while in the Corps (and Ka-bars were essential) but I won't get into the compatibility of the Mora knife to my training or experience. I will simply enjoy the knives for what they appear to be, excellent tools for an outstanding price.

Thanks for posting Littleknife!

 

[numberthree]

" I think assessing it in the context
of an 'all in one' survival knife is sort of
missing the point of this type of blade. "

Why is that? I think its prudent to assume
one may find themselves in a situation with
only one blade so why not discuss this
possibility.

I have no problem with discussing the
possibility, but I don't think I've EVER
carried only one knife. Even those who
prefer a single 'survival' knife can
appreciate the benefits of redundancy,
especially with such a critical tool. I carry
several knives, the total weight of which
probably is equal to or less than that of a
'prybar' type survival knife. Look at the
cultures that the mora-type blades come
from, those people carry more than one
blade, and often an axe besides. They
don't really consider the unlikely 'one knife'
scenario as applicable, and therefore carry
a more specialized SET of tools. Besides,
I'd feel very comfortable if all I had was a
mora; I'd still enjoy a significant material
advantage over millennia of human beings
who survived and thrived with far less than
that.

"It's designed to perform knife
tasks with maximum efficiency; it's not a
chopper, digger or prybar.

Some blades do all the above albeit not the
best at any.

Which is why I specifically state "...with
maximum efficiency". My knife can cut
very well, my axe or machete can chop very
well. I don't accept the compromises that
an artificial reliance on a single knife offers.

"Many of the outdoors writers who
use the mora use it with at least one other
tool such as an axe or saw. "
Most teachers use only one blade and its
not a Mora.

Note I said 'writers', not 'teachers'. And I've
encountered many teachers who use
Moras exclusively, and/or tool sets. The point of teaching
'single knife' survival is to focus the
student on skills rather than equipment.
It's not a commandment that thou shalt
never carry more than a single knife. Mors
Kochanski, an accomplished
outdoorsman, teacher, AND writer would
take an axe if he had to choose a single
tool, not a knife at all. Given only a Mora,
he'd probably do just fine. The point is the
skill of the user, not the specific knife
model. The climate that one operates in will also dictate what tools you carry. A jungle scenario is far better served with a small blade and a machete than a single medium sized knife.

" I think the 'one knife' survival myth is
overblown, "

How is this a myth? Explain.

The 'one knife' scenario is more of a fun
logical exercise; it allows one to sort of
size up whatever knife they choose against
whatever survival scenario they think is
likely. It's an assessment tool, not a likely
scenario. For me, 2 scenarios are likely:
one, I'll have my EDC, which will give me a
robust cross-section of basic tools that fit
well with the skills I've developed; two, I'll
be totally without my EDC, and most likely
without a knife at all (air travel, etc...), in
which case, I will have to rely entirely on
skills. Whatever the case, I will survive,
regardless if I have a Mora, a Strider, nothing, or a $2
flea market piece of junk. I just don't think
there's any realistic scenario where you'd
be limited to a single blade that you could
choose, except for maybe abduction by amused bladeforumites.
Again it's a fun logical exercise but nothing more....

"and causes people to select knives based on false criteria."
What criteria? I think carrying 4 blades for different uses is plain dumb.

Well if you can't see the advantages of that approach, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that expecting a single knife to do everything and do it well is unrealistic and inefficient.

I want a knife that cuts things well, I don't care if it'll chop down a tree or cut off a car door. "

I want a blade that will do anything I ask of it and more as said, the Mora is limited.

ANY blade is limited....the user has to decide which limitations they're willing to accept. I just don't think it makes sense to limit the cutting ability of one's knife. The Mora does everything I've ever asked a blade to do anyway.

"The major limiting factor with ANY knife is the skill of the user."

There are 3 limiting factors. Blade shape/size, Blade steel/durability, users ability. Otherwise $5 dime store specials would be the blade of choice

Note my use of the term 'major' rather than 'only'. There are many factors which limit the usefulness of a knife, and they will vary with the user.

 

[longbow50]

I like the Moras. I've bataned the Frost SwAK and M2K through 3" Sycamore, Coastal Oak and Pine, as well as whittled, carved, powered through sapplings, gouged, notched and drilled. When you add in their superb slicing and dicing qualities, well, they are tough to beat for any price in my book and have earned a permanent place in my gear.

 

[pict]

One photo put it all in perspective for me a years ago.

A South American Indian had some sort of arm band located between his bicep and deltoid. Stuck under the armband was a cheap $.75 paring knife. This was his "One knife" concept and I'll bet it was one of his prized possessions.

As we say in my other hobby... "It's not the gun, but the man." Mac

 

[Thomas Linton]

One photo put it all in perspective for me a years ago.

A South American Indian had some sort of arm band located between his bicep and deltoid. Stuck under the armband was a cheap $.75 paring knife. This was his "One knife" concept and I'll bet it was one of his prized possessions.

As we say in my other hobby... "It's not the gun, but the man." Mac

New thread: "Best Survival Paring Knife?"