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BruiseLeee

BruiseLeee

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Sep 7, 2001
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I haven't got the .22 yet but a question came up in my little brain. I should ask it before I forget it.

The difference in the 1911 Gov't model and the Commander model's barrel is 3/4" . Is there any signifigant difference in firing the two? Someone mentioned the longer barrel makes for a more reliable piece.

:confused:
 
Bruise?

The pro's will show up soon, but in my limited experience, a longer barrel gives you : a longer sighting plane and a bit more weight which stabilizes your muscle tension...or at least resists movement with the infinitesimal muscle movement (to hold your hand steady, you have to have two opposing muscle groups pulling against each other.)

I don't know if the additional 3/4 inch would add much to bullet stability in terms of ballistics, but it may. I'd think it would be marginal.

That said, pistols are usually used at very close range...5-6 feet in human encounters. Shouldn't be an issue in that event.

For target work, and for competition, the slight differences make a big difference between, say, a three-inch group, and a clover-leaf.


Knowledgeable shooters will be along soon.



Have fun.
 
I'm not the "knowledgeble" shooter either, but I did own a Colt 1911 all steel officers model at one time. I believe the barrel length was 3 1/2 ", so another 3/4" shorter than the commander. Got to say it was the most uncomfortable to shoot pistol I have ever owned, and I sold it years ago. If I had it to do again I would start with the full size model and possibly go to a smaller size as my comfort level increased. Just one person's limited experience. Enjoy your quest.:thumbup:
 
The big difference will be that the longer barrel will reduce barrel rise, and the shorter barrel will carry/conceal easier.

J
 
I had several 1911 full size models and one commander and they all shot the same to me. Of course, as Kismet noted, I never asked them to be accurate beyond the FBI pistol actual combat range (3 to 7 yards)
These are 45's though, Bruise, the difference between 22's and 45's is huge.
A 1/2" shorter barrel on a 22 wouldnt even be noticable, I imagine.
Now, some 1.5" snub nosed pistol at fifty yards will definitely not shoot as well as a 5" pistol. At 4 yards, however, a pistol doesnt even really need sights.
Thats' why the 38 snub nosed revolver has served millions of policemen reliably for more than 50 years.
 
I always preferred the standard 1911...the Commander always seemed muzzle light.

If you are looking at a 1911 *and* a .22 Bruise...you might as well look at the various dual caliber offerings. You use the same frame with two different slide assemblies...one in a centerfire (.45, .38 Super, 9m/m, etc) and the second in .22 of some flavor.

The idea there is that you get to practice and plink with cheap and easier to control stuff and then for "duty", go to the centerfire one. I had a nice setup once that was all tricked out (did all the work myself) but had to sell it when I was going through college to pay bills. I really miss that pistol...
 
I have owned all three lengths of 1911 platform.
I don't find the recoil of my 3" SA Micro-Compact that objectionable.
The 3" .40 S&W CZ I have has sharper, faster recoil than the .45.
The .45 to me is more of a slow push than sharp biting recoil.
The 5" barrel is inherently more acurate, but makes "old slab sides"
harder to conceal, especially if your my size, 5'9" and 185 lbs..

DaddyDett
 
It's a personal thing. For some (me) the Commander length points very naturally. It's also about the longest barrel length I can comfortably conceal IWB (3/4" can make a pretty big difference when you're 5'7" tall). The 5" barrel does tend to have a bit less muzzle rise than the Commander length, but neither is a pussycat to shoot for the uninitiated. Once you learn how to grip it properly and not to fear the recoil it's a lot of fun. All of my range sessions are cut short by time or ammo constraints, not because I'm tired of shooting. As far as reliability is concerned, a properly made Commander or Government model will be dead reliable. You just need to test it out to be sure.
 
I'm no expert either.

However with me at least such things as how easy the gun is to hold steady, and how stiff the trigger is and how good the sights are are way more important to my ability to shoot anything with any degree of accuracy than the barrel length.

For instance I have a CZ52 and a CZ82. The 82 is shorter but is much easier to hold and shoot accurately due to it's ergonomic design.

On a sunny day at 25 yards I can outshoot the 82 with the 52 because I can see the sights well and the 52 is maybe really more accurate off a bench.

However if it is overcast I can drastically outshoot the 52 with the 82 because of the better 82 sights. Also even though the trigger is a bit heavier on the 82, I seem to shoot it better faster than the 52 which has a very light trigger because the design of the grip on the 82 allows for me to hold the gun more steady while pulling the trigger.

I'm not sure of the actual accuracy of any of my pistols because I never shoot them off of a rest, or at least haven't yet. Plus I am really more concerned with how accurate they are for me and my particular handicaps in shooting versus their built in accuracy.
 
Bruise -

I own both a gold cup mkIV colt 45 and a combat commander. granted, it's not apples and apples, but the full-frame makes a huge difference -- to me -- in the shootability of the weapon. Accuracy doesn't seem to be all that different, honestly, but the cc is a bit of a handful. The recoil isn't unmanageable. It's just kinda unpleasent, whereas the gold cup is one of the best shooting handguns I have ever used.

Other 1911 full-frames that I have shot are pretty much the same deal -- it depends on how they have been set up.

For my money, go with a generic full-frame, and modify it from there. Whole lotta aftermarket goodies for that one.
 
Thanks for all of the replies. I'll have to print out more money eventually because no one is buying indulgences. :) ;)

I'll probably have more questions about stuff I can't afford soon enough.
 
Hey guys...*I* bought some indulgences from Bruise.

So far, they have protected me from having to accept responsibility as a moderator.

How's *that* for a testimonial?

Step up and buy some of Bruise's indulgences for yourself...he needs hobby money...
 
Bruise
I own a Kimber 1911 "stainless target" government model and it is accurate out of the box for the modest cost. You can buy a .22 Kimber conversion ($250) that includes a slide and clip that will allow you to shoot cheap .22LR while practicing with the same frame (trigger pull and grip). If you decide to buy a Kimber conversion, make sure it's made by Kimber and not Ceiner. Kimber originally sold the Ceiner conversion with their name on it, and the one I first purchased shot 6" high at 25yds with the adjustable sights all of the way down :mad: . Complaining to Ceiner about it was like talking to a brick wall :rolleyes: . I also own a 1911 commander model made by Les Baer. It does have a little more muzzle rise but it's easier to carry under a jacket in the waist belt holster. If Uncle Sam starts outfitting the troops with the 1911 again, you'll have a good source for reloadable brass :thumbup: ! Hope this helps................Malcolm
 
Bruise,

Take a trip over to KitteryTrading Post. They have a huge selection of Ruger .22s as well as lots of others. They also have one of the largest selection of 1911s around. See what feels good to your hand and what you would want to carry daily. I have been shooting the 1911 regularly since 1974 when I trained with it as a MP in the Marines. I have owned and shot one since that time. Right now I CCW a Kimber Ultra CDP. That is a 3" version with aluminum frame. It is light and easy to carry daily with comfort. I find it easy to shoot but would not generally steer someone to the smallest, lightest of the group as a starting point. I also have a Springfield 1911 race piece that I have had since the time I got into steel plate speed shooting. It is large, heavy, a beast. I love it as it still shoots real well and is OK to carry in a thigh rig in the woods. Long and heavy= ease of control and faster 2nd shots.
Short and light= comfortable carry for extended periods and slower recovery between shots. Actually control is less of an issue these days with all of the lightweight bullet loads that have become popular.
Check some out in person and see what you like the feel of. Who knows, you may find that a Sig, or HK or what ever feels better in your hand. Feel is important in something as personal as a handgun. If you ever want to try one I belong to a local range where one can shoot without being hassled by non shooters. We can go incognito.;)
 
BruiseLeee said:
I haven't got the .22 yet but a question came up in my little brain. I should ask it before I forget it.

The difference in the 1911 Gov't model and the Commander model's barrel is 3/4" . Is there any signifigant difference in firing the two? Someone mentioned the longer barrel makes for a more reliable piece.

:confused:
Click to expand...

Hi Bruise:

Both are dependable. Barrel length matters not there. A longer barrel is somewhat more accurate.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think this is your first handgun purchase? The .45 is a lot of fun to shoot, but might not be best to learn on due to recoil. It is also single action and requires more training to handle safely. To carry a 1911 it should be cocked. Yeah there are multiple safeties, but it's still cocked. You might want to look at a double action semi-auto if you are going for a caliber larger than .22. Safer to handle and fast to use. Plus you have both single action and double action in one pistol. An exposed hammer might also be of benefit since you can see if it's cocked.

My .02.
 
O.K. Here goes....I am as close to an expert as you're going to find around here...just fact. I have carried a 1911, practiced, and yes, shot with it people who desparately needed shot at the time. This is NOT fun, as most would have you believe, and explaining your reasons on the stand is humbling. Your question about different barrel lengths is a good one, and I am basing my answer on over 30 years and over two dozen 1911's and derivatives. In general it is easier to get a 5" 1911 to feed, extract and eject reliably, even with sloppy tolerances and abominable triggers. Literally dozens of competent gunsmiths are making their living accurizing and refining the 45. Anyone's 5" plain jane .45 can be made to work reliably with a little effort. Go to a 4" or 4 1/4" Commander style (other companies use different names) and reliable feeding and extraction become a little more iffy. Go to a 3 1/2" Officer's Model and fully half of those encountered will jam regularly.

Happily there are several solutions. First, you can either spend the money up front and have exactly what you want in terms of reliability, smoothness, trigger, and accuracy.....OR you can buy something reasonably close to what you want, and then address one facet at a time until you have reached satisfaction. Assuming you are not ready to drop $2,000 or more on a Wilson or Brown custom, I strongly suggest a Kimber or Springfield full sized model (or perhaps a Colt, but Kimber is better these days)...Certainly nothing smaller than a 4" barrel for reliability (compromise on ANYTHING ELSE other than reliability). Make sure the extractor is the old internal type, not the little short external one. If you have really small hands, some makers put a Commander barrel and slide on an Officers Model frame, but your little finger winds up folded under the magazine...not as good for control, but O.K. feeding.

Unless you are in police work, carrying concealed should mean getting the necessary permit, and then do a reasonable job of hiding it well enough not to offend anybody. An average sized guy can carry a full sized .45 well enough concealed; most other folks are not trying to spot a gun on you. I came from an agency that literally gave me cases of ammo to practice with, and I could carry or try anything I wanted to. Double action semi-autos are an answer to a non-existant problem. Stay with a 1911...don't leave home without it. Rather than any other auto, my second choice would be a revolver. Jurassicnarc
 
Steve Poll said:
The .45 is a lot of fun to shoot, but might not be best to learn on due to recoil.
Click to expand...

I'm still getting the 22. I just like to look down the road a little. :)
 
BruiseLeee said:
Thanks for all of the replies. I'll have to print out more money eventually because no one is buying indulgences. :) ;)

I'll probably have more questions about stuff I can't afford soon enough.
Click to expand...

Most of us buy guns one at a time. Please buy the .22 or else something easier to handle than the .45 for a first pistol. Yeah I know tens of thousands have learned to handle a pistol using a .45, but that doesn't mean it's the best path to take. I currently own two 1911's. Love 'em, but realize they aren't the answer for everything.

Also note there is a difference between the Combat Commander and the Commander. Historically the C.C. had an alloy frame. The Commander didn't.

(I vote for the Full size govt frame, with a straight mainspring housing and the flatter grip panels for those keeping score.)
 
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