Mountain Lions

[bruce]

I just read an article in this month's Readers Digest about a hiker in Colorado who had an encounter with a mountain lion. Because he was only out for a few hours in an area he knew well, he only carried a swiss army knife. During the struggle, he tried to stab the cat in the neck and was rewarded with the blade folding up on his finger (probably the least of his worries at the moment!).

Human encounters with large cats are on the rise as humans see fit to invade the cat's range. Two years ago while hunting deer in Idaho by myself, I found three or four places where deer had spent the night, but as I walked through these beds, I noticed cat tracks through all of them. Later when I spent the afternoon at the base of the mountain in a small mining town. I was told that Idaho Fish and Game had been trying to trap "five" cats on the same mountain I had been hunting. One of more of these cats had attacked a hiker's dog, among other things.

My question is, Why do people take chances by spending time in the woods without proper protection? It is common for hikers who go "light" to show disdain for any knife larger than a SAK. Frankly, when I enter the primitive areas of Idaho or Utah, I carry a 7 inch fixed blade and a handgun! Heavy you say? How much is your protection and security worth? I'm not a "light" hiker so don't mind the weight (military gear is anything but light!).

What's your opinion on the justification of spending time in the domain of cats and bears seemingly unprepared for an encounter gone bad?

Bruce Woodbury

 

[Sender]

Ignorance.

That's my excuse anyway

Things have changed though, no more non-locking folders for me -OUCH! I CAN learn from others' mistakes.

What type of blade would be best for fending off animal predators (as opposed to the two-legged kind) -I have an old M-16 bayonet used largely for 'kitchen' chores. It looks like it would put a deep hole in something, not very sharp though.

The pistol sounds reasonable to me.

 

[HankS]

Mountain Lion population is on the rise in my area, and we've been here for quite a few decades. The cats are coming into town even, since there is nothing to stop them, and they are protected! There have been a few attacks and fatalities on joggers and hikers in the main trails here as well. Food is plentiful for these beasts! I'd carry a nice size fighter, at least 8 inches or so, but would like a pistol better! Something like a .357 or bigger.

Hank

 

[switchback]

If you were to flip through some books specifically on “backpacking” you would notice that most flat out say to leave the big blades at home. It’s not until you start looking at books on more primitive living that you will see the carrying of big knives promoted. It almost makes sense when you consider that the majority of people using the wilderness carry food, water and shelter on their backs.

For most of my reasonably short outdoor life, I’ve carried nothing more than a 3” folder. HOWEVER, the first time I decided to carry a 5” fixed blade also happened to be the first time I encountered a really pissed off black bear. He/she was huffing, chomping and the whole works. Anyway, it ended peacefully but I got a lot of comfort out of that little fixed blade.

Having been on both sides of the fence, I can recall times when I was happy to have a big blade and other times when it felt like a nuisance. The type of hiking I most often do, that is to say self-contained with the lightest food and shelter I can carry, a large knife sometimes seems to get in the way.

Like a lot of issues regarding backcountry travel, everyone has to weigh the risks for themselves. For the most part, since the average hiker is many, many more times likely to fall off a cliff or drown in national parks than attacked by a bear or mountain lion, I often choose to leave the big blades at home. But at the same time, I can’t criticize someone for carrying an extra 10 oz of protection for a little peace of mind.

In my mind, settling for a smaller knife is no different than leaving your tent and sleeping bag at home. You are assuming a certain level of risk. By not taking a tent or sleeping bag, you assume a risk that you may not be able to find or construct adequate shelter. The elements kill more people than bears and mountain lions do. Similarly, by taking a smaller blade, you assume the risk that you will not need a bigger one. In my opinion, whether getting rid of weight in your pack is worth the risk is something everyone needs to decide for himself.

Me, I’ll probably be carrying a fixed blade, at least in bear country.

I expect there will be a lot of differing opinions on this topic. If anyone has questions regarding my opinion, don't hesitate to ask.

Switchback.

 

[Kevan Taylor-Perry]

I bought a Cold Steel Boar Spear for exactly that purpose among a couple others. I can use it for a walking stick (of a sort) and the blade is available when I might need it. I think a spear is a good option---it keeps an attacker at a distance.

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Kevan "Raven" Taylor-Perry

 

[Alberta Ed]

A friend and I backtracked over a pass in Glacier National Park one time and discovered cougar tracks following ours... never got a glimpse of it, though. Taking a dog into wilderness areas is not a real good idea, IMHO, since they can and will locate critters like bears (Look what I brought you...!). Also dogs are a favorite snack food of cougars, and I suspect that in many of the reported cases of "Toy poodle dies defending four year old" the cat was really after the dog. I feel in more danger driving in downtown Edmonton that out in the bush. Notwithstanding that, when I used to fish along the west coast with my dog (who loved rolling in a good, smelly dead salmon), I usually had the 12 gauge handy.
PS. We have way too many poodles and not enough cougars.

 

[lady warrior]

I always carry a pistol, nothing less than .40 s&w. I also carry a folding lockback, pepper spray, and usually a fixed blade of at least 6 inches. I have logged over 20,000 miles of wilderness trails as a runner/jogger. I've seen just about every wild animal one can see in my area (Southern California). The only animals I've ever been attacked by are dogs. Pepper spray usually takes care of that problem, but I had to shoot one once.

 

[Walt Welch]

Although I live in an urban area (Walnut Creek, CA), there are 2500 acres of wilderness across my driveway. I came across one fresh cougar kill once in the wilderness(they tend to kill the deer at night or early morning, then lay up in the brush nearby until dark to feed); this made me rather frightened, so I slowly retreated, looking around as I went.

One cougar walked down the driveway in front of my house, according to four (sober) neighbors. This was several years ago. In the fall, the deer find forage scarce, so come down to the irrigated lawns to feed. The cougars follow.

Despite the number of cougars in the general area, and many killings of dogs by them, there has been only one attack, unfortunately fatal, on a human being, and this was about 10 years ago. It was a woman who was jogging around the nearby Lafayette Reservoir. What probably happened was that the cougar had its' attack instincts triggered by the fact that the woman was running away; the cougar attack from behind, and fatally bit the woman's head and neck.

Do I carry a gun when I go into the wilderness? No, I don't. Cougars are primarily nocturnal, after all, and if you should see one, just walking away slowly while facing the cougar should protect you. I am not sure that a knife would help me much against a 20 lb. wildcat, let alone a cougar.

Hope this helps, Walt

 

[Diligence]

This thread brings up an interesting point regarding perceived threats.

For instance, how many of you who insist on carrying firepower while hiking will not wear your vehicle seat-belts or helmets while mountain biking? Or for instance, how many of you speed more than 15mph over the limit? Each of these actions increases your risk to physical harm to a level far greater than exists for wild animal induced trauma.

Although I can't quote the statistics, I think it's common knowledge that one of the most dangerous things for us to do, is to jump into our vehicles without a seatbelt on...

Just something to feed the thread,
Diligence

 

[bruce]

Good rhetoric here! Now, those of you with children, would you change the means of self protection you carry when you take your sub-adult children with you into the wilds?

I remember reading of an incident where a hiking family let their young son (eight or ten yreas old) run along up the trail ahead of them. Upon rounding a corner in the trail, a mountain lion was standing on top of their son, his head in the lions mouth. I think they drove the animal away and the rest of the article was about how they evacuated the mauled child back to medical attention.

I don't know if I could stand myself if I did something foolish that resulted in the mauling of one of my children! I know it would change my relationship with my good wife. The proximate cause in the above paragraph was the family letting the child get separated but could they have reduced the trauma to the child if they had had a gun or more confidence that a large knife might give in getting closer to the cat?

When it comes to my children, I don't mind a little more weight in my load. I used to carry a .357 mag but it was heavy and limited to six very powerful shots. Now I carry a .40 *&* (I won't even type smith&wesson) with 11 rounds, almost as powerful, and a little less weight.

Bruce

 

[Plainsman]

Carrying a knife is only the beginning. Being in the woods or even in civilization anything can and will happen to put you in a predicament.

Hence, I have my pocket kit and normal SAK and folding knife. The vehicle has a kit and a solid sheath knife. Normally, the vehicle has a firearm and quite often I have a 1911 concealed on myself.

When the situation may get intense, then another firearm and larger kit is carried. It's called being prepared.

Just like posted above, wearing your seatbelt, driving within speed limits and being "defensive" keeps one alive!!



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Plainsman
primitiveguy@hotmail.com
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Plainsman's Cabin Forums</A>

 

[TimmyTheTalkingToilet]

I have been to Glacier once before, and I really liked it alot. (hated yellostone)

I found something about my dad recently (CCW) he carried a 9mm llamma handgun with the 15 rnd mags, and on the pack frame right behind his head, in a hidden compartment. Heck I didn't even know that he carried on vacation.


also I hope that I'm not the only one who thinks, that they should of realased a bunch of hungry cougars while those idiots were filming "the Blair Witch Progect"

 

[psy-ops]

I never understand the weight argument.

are people that damn lazy that carrying 1lbs ruins their hike?

I always bring a 6-9" knife in my pack and a folder.

guns are illegal to carry on our trails.


always check your 6

I agree there are too many poodles to cougars anyway. I am not afraid of seeing a cougar. I would be awestruck and felt priviledged. in fact I can't wait to see one. when I go out I look for them.


If you have kids, dogs or are having a barbeque or running then I would take extra precautions.

[This message has been edited by chrisaloia (edited 11-15-2000).]

 

[Phil Ca]

Here above the Napa Valley we have a small airport with a nice trail through the woods nearby. There is a sign at the entrance that warns of mountain lions and that you should procede with caution.

About a year ago or so my son, his daughter and their 50 pound dog went walking with a couple and their dog. While on this trail the dogs ranged ahead checking out every interesting scent. A mountain lion apparantly objected to theirpresecne and let out a large roar. The dogs came running back and the hikers all decided to go back to the car.

Anothe time a lady was in her hot tub when she saw a large couger walk across the back yard.

More recently a man had a Malamute killed by a lion. He notified the F and G people who came up with a hunter and some dogs. A lion was eventually tracked down and when it tried to go after one of the hounds, the officer shot the lion.

If I decide to go hiking in those woods I will definitely be packing.

 

[Kevan Taylor-Perry]

I just remembered a very old folktale I once heard about cougars. Seems that a cougar, so the tale goes, can smell the blood on a woman in her "Moon" time. This sounds like BS to me, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

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Kevan "Raven" Taylor-Perry

 

[Dave B]

This link lists every documented Mountain Lion attack (on a human) since 1890.
http://gurlpages.com/dearheart/lionatax.html

My wife was shadowed by one while jogging less that 1/2 mile from our house. I have not seen one myself, although I've heard them.

Decide for yourself how real a threat they are, and what you should do to prepare yourself. Personally, I'd give anything to see one out in the woods in the flesh.

db

 

[Bobwhite]

About three or four years ago there were repeated sightings in the Philadelphia area. It was thought that it was an escaped "Pet". It is illegal to own these animals in this area. Anyway, there were repeated attempts to capture it that all failed. There has been no sightings lately and no one knows what happened to the mountain lion. No carcass was ever found and no one was attacked but it sure created a stir.

 

[Lone Hunter]

This is from an old article I've saved for years because this woman is one of my heros.This is word for word.
Woman kills mountain lion.
DOS RIOS.Calif.- A woman killed a mountain lion with a kitchen knife yesterday after the 60 pound animal attacked a group of campers and bit off her husband's thumb.
"I had a hell of a time getting the knife through its skin," said Robin Winslow, 48. Its tough,like shark."
The two men wrestled the mountain lion and held it down while Mrs. Winslow stabbed it in the stomach with a 12-inch serrated knife.

[This message has been edited by Lone Hunter (edited 11-27-2000).]

 

[Bronco]

I spend a good deal of time hiking and camping in the Cuyamaca Rancho State Park area where many of these cougar attacks have occurred. Like the trails where chrisaloia hikes, firearms are restricted in Cuyamaca Rancho.

I hope none of you will think any less of me when I tell you that are certain laws in this land that I choose to ignore. Regardless, my H&K USP .40 will continue to accompany me on these treks.

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Semper Fi

-Bill

 

[Stryver]

The story I heard on this guy is that he came across this cat, and had enough time standing there in a non-physical confrontation to pull out his swiss, and fumble through several different implements on it, trying to come up with the best one to use.

I don't know what ya'll have been taught, but having hiked trails in Colorado, worked at camps and parks in that state that had cougars frequent them, and taught Scouts and Cubs things to do if they ever ran into a cat, he didn't do what he was supposed to.

The lesson to learn here is that the first reaction you should have to a large cat, or any other carnivore you meet in the woods (or dark alley) should not be to whip out your knife. This guy probably froze, looked down at his hands, and fumbled with his knife. Very prey-like actions. Sort of like the bunnies that freeze when they see me, and stand there, looking away, twitching their noses.

Know the predatory/dangerous animals in the areas you frequent. Know their typical habitats, actions and lifestyles. Know what to do to make yourself less prey-like, or less threatening, depending on the specific carnivore. After you know all of this, if you still do not feel safe, arm yourself. Know then the proper use, both method and time, and the effectiveness of your chosen arms. Then avoid encountering any dangerous beast, and you'll be safe.

Stryver, who likes cougars. They make the noisy little scouts go to bed on time, and keep them from running off on their own.