Mtn Lion Attack in Orange County

M

Manuel Talavera

Joined
Jan 9, 2004
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8
I saw the news today about the lady killed by a Mtn Lion. I have been mtn biking in similar terrain... except I'm in Northern CA (Santa Cruz mtns) I'm thinking I should consider bringing some defensive items with me !! I had been considering bringing a can of pepper spray - Suggestions?
 
A big cat attacks from behind without warning. A helmet with a chain mail collar might be more help. You want something with more range than pepper spray. An anti-rape air horn might work better.
 
I guess I was wrong about a lady being killed, she is currently in critical condition, and a man's body was found nearby, possibly killed by the same mtn lion. Yes, it would be difficult to fend off a mtn lion if it pounces.... What if I was the other rider in a similar scenario? I posted here thinking a big knife might be handy...
 
Hello Jeff,

Are you going to honk at it while its muckled onto the back of your neck or just honk as you travel through mountain lion country?

I might suggest pepper spray in those bear sized containers , a fixed blade, or those with the knowledge carry a handgun.

Frankly, I probably end up just having a folder with me because I always carry one. That's not what would be best, but you gotta use what is available. A man recently killed one with a folder in B.C. as I remember. It really ripped him him up in the process as I remember.

Now if a grizz grabs me and all I have is a folder I'd probably TRY to play dead. If that didn't work I'd stab the bear, not to kill it mind you, but so it will get real mad and get it all over with quickly. :)

Sometimes I've brought a shotgun along on fishing trips and of course a I have the 300 WIN MAG on hunting trips. These weopons might not be too practical in Northern CA on a hike, mountain biking, etc.

Bruce
 
I'm not going to go into weapon choices, since most attacks from mountain lions come from ambush behind the victim... you are likely F'd. Be aware of your surroundings and potential ambush points. Another thing that may help would be to put decals of eyes on the back of your helmet/hat. May help.
 
No Bruce, I don't figure on waiting till I am pounced upon to use the air horn and I don't expect to toot it periodically. I am talking about a horn that puts out something like a jet engine shriek. These are very compact and you can hear them for a mile. If you see a big cat getting close you let her rip. This is much the same as you would do with pepper spray. The advantage is that it has much longer range and is smaller than a big can of bear spray. I'm assuming bears are not a big problem in the Santa Cruz mountains. For example take a look at:
http://www.shipstore.com/ss/html/FAL/FALSH3.html
 
That's right, bears are not common here. But, deer are plentiful, therefore there are mtn lions around. The "eye stickers" is an interesting idea. I'm not too sure about "...if you see a big cat getting close..." I don't think the cat would give me that kind of warning! Is anybody reading that's familiar with mtn lion behavior?
 
I used to live in Orange County, and I remember seeing news stories about hikers spotting mountain lions over 15 years ago. One news story featured a photo that a man had taken of his wife and child posing on a hiking trail. When he had the photo developed you could clearly make out a lion crouching in the brush less than 10 yards behind them! Spooky. Now I hike quite a bit in No Cal, and there seems to be much less of a mountain lion presence here than down south, in places that hikers or bikers are likely to be anyways. Still, I never hike by myself, and I think that your best protection is not being alone. Beyond that, the "experts" have said that if a mountain lion attacks you, it's pretty much already committed to a life or death struggle, and you need to fight for your life. In other words, you probably aren't going to discourage a lion by yelling at it or causing it pain. This is supported by the recent case where the man in BC had to kill a lion with a knife in order to stop an attack.

In addition to a companion, I always have a readily accessible fixed blade when I hike or camp, that I can draw right into an icepick grip. Most commonly I carry a MOD Razorback with a Tek-lok on the sheath, clipped to my waist.
 
According to the LA Times the woman was on her bike, riding, when the attack happened. Riding a Mt bike and deploying a weapon to fend off a stealth attack by a Mountain Lion will make for some interesting self defense discussions.

The man found dead nearby was the first Mt Lion fatality since 94. The fires at the end of October took out significant portions of habitat, I don't think this will be an isolated incident. The LA times article mentioned, David Baron, author of "The Beast in the Garden," as saying that wild cats are losing their fear of humans. The implications are that we are being thought of as prey.

We, as Humans, don't like to think of ourselves as part of the food chain. Recent events remind us that we can be. If we stay mindfull of this fact it is to our advantage.

I don't know what the best defense is when you have been knocked off your bike, air pump club, camelback bludgeon, handful of dirt. Somebody more knowlegable than I, said anything you put into your head is a weapon, anything you put in your hand is a tool.
 
Have a good dog with you, and I don't mean a cocker spaniel. Something in the 80# and up range. They work pretty well as bear repellant also.
 
I was thinking - Maybe I should carry a Rock Pick or, since getting close to a mtn lion while it's attacking somebody might be tricky, a throwing axe. OF Course, I'd have to practice aiming my throws...
 
A big dog is an excellent idea - and both of us would be getting a workout!! Hmm - how big of a dog do you need to handle a 110 lb. mtn lion?
 
I wouldn't go with a throwing axe to throw, no matter how much you practice if you throw it and miss you are SOOL. I'd suggest maybe one of the larger neck knives on the market and a more tactical and secure sheath for it from survivalsheath.com. This would be my bare minimum. Maybe look into the Becker BK2 or BK10, they both seem to be sturdy yet very affordable and about 10 inches overall. Hope that helps. Just a side note, if you choose a knife, I would make sure to put a lanyard on to put around your wrist to help better secure it or give you that little extra to hang on to/reach for in the really tight situations.
 
Near Denver a jogger was killed by a mountain lion something like 10 years ago. It pounced on him from behind.

I've got a nearly feral coon cat and from its tactics I don't want to use any short weapons on a mountain lion. I would expect them to use their front claws to pull you into their jaws while they use their back claws to disembowl you. I would want something more like a spear or a gun. In California you can pretty much give up the idea of a carry permit so a "hiking stick" is one of the few things you could carry.
 
I think that if you were a greatly skilled hunter, you may be able to track down, sneak up on, and possibly, if you're very lucky, kill a mountain lion with a throwing axe. But otherwise, I would think that a throwing axe would be worse than useless.

If a mountain lion decides that you're prey, and you're dumb enough to be riding alone, chances are that you're not going to come out in one piece, no matter what weapons you have with you.

Mountain lion's are fast, very quiet, and a heck of a lot better at ambushing than you probably are at spotting an ambush. In an attack, they will most certainly have the element of surprise. And, more than likely, they'll be on top of you, jaws clamped on something vital, before you'll even get a chance to respond.

Rather than fight them off, you would be a lot smarter to just avoid the attack in the first place. You're best bet to do this, as already suggested, is to travel in groups. Dogs are another good answer. Take a couple good sized ones along, or one really big one, and the lion will probably decide you're too tough of a target, and will wait for the next fool riding a bike alone.

-- Rob
 
Ok, the throwing axe was a bad idea. But that's what is great about forums, everybody can throw ideas in, and some of the solutions might be winners ;)
 
Here's what little I think I know about Mt Lions, but could be wrong.

First, regarding big dogs, in mountain lion country, lions occasionally prey on dogs of any size. I don't believe any dog is really a match for a lion that's hunting it. On the other hand, people hunt lions with packs of dogs, so maybe it's a big group of barking dogs that makes the difference.

I also understand that lions attack from behind, and one bite to the skull or neck and it's game over. HOWEVER, that said, I've also heard, and read anecdotal evidence, that lions aren't that hard for an adult to fight off if you see them coming. You generally don't have to kill them -- just hurt them and they'll run. The literature is full of stories of people fighting them off ... IF they see them first.
 
As I read through this thread, the best idea comes from Mongo. A cat (any cat) does not like to be stared at--is considered a threat gesture. Various tribes, natives, etc..in S. America employ this very technique to ward off Jaguars.

Without going into too much detail, I have, shall we say, seen a mountain lion up close and personal. If one were to decide to initiate an attack on you while biking down a bike path I really doubt there is much you could do. Carrying a pistol in a state park or some such locale in California would probably put you in deep water w/ the local l.e. A knife might help and from my knowledge if I could ONLY carry a knife I would carry a hawkbill serrated blade such as what Spyderco puts out or a big karambit. I say this b/c if you did get a cat on you, you are not going to be able to "fight" the cat with kung fu, karate, kicks, punches or anything like that. Best you could probably do is slash it with such a knife as I have described and hope it breaks off. Also, if a cat attacks a human then you are most assuredly going to the ground which is not good as any street fighter or martial artist will tell you.

Best advice I can give you is be constantly vigilant. They like to pounce "down" from on high. They like slow moving things as opposed to fast moving things UNTIL they initiate the attack. Once the cat makes that decision it doesn't matter how fast you move, you're done. Which brings me to another point. If you see a cat do not run away from it. That activates the cat's circuit that says run after the prey and pounce.

I hope this helps somewhat. I have seen these things in action here in Texas attacking livestock and as I mentioned I had "personal dealings" with one circa 1987. They are quick tough animals with musculature like you wouldn't believe. Happy cycling.
 
Originally posted by Manuel Talavera
Ok, the throwing axe was a bad idea. But that's what is great about forums, everybody can throw ideas in, and some of the solutions might be winners ;)
Click to expand...
Forget throwing it, but using it to bludgeon the beast would be a good option! Everything I understand about these cats has been mentioned, they excel at surprise, it is what they live to do. You'll never see it coming. But I'd think that a nasty blade deployed quickly enough might save you, or at least help take him with you. ;)
 
P.S. ---Talmadge is right about the dog thing. I can't imagine a mountain lion attacking someone running or biking with a big dog.
 
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