Multi purpose rifle

[SpookyPistolero]

It hasn't become that, or started to. You were the one to bring up such 'doomsday' preparations or the notion of a fantasy end of the world scenario.

The next question I'd have to ask of you is whether you believe you're immune from harm in the woods for some reason? Do you think that people doing evil things stop doing them in the backwoods? The only difference is a bad person has a better chance of getting away without consequence, and that you can't call for help. You are your only hope for safety out there, so the best tool for such a role is worth keeping on you. Just like a small fixed blade is best at bushcraft roles, so I bring one, or a hatchet is best at getting small wood for fires, so I bring one.

Bringing a firearm to the woods doesn't imply preparation for such improbable and extreme scenarios, as you suggested. Your personal bias has tinted your views such that you assume everyone with a gun thinks he's going to fight off Russians and aliens, and you pigeon-holed him as such.

This is a survival forum, survival is about staying alive in an unpredictable and potentially volatile situation. It doesn't take much imagination to picture your life being at risk, from either starvation or an attacker, while in the woods during such an event.

I'm going to stop here, however, because I've helped to derail this thread too much as it is.

 

[Shotgun]

My contribution to the ongoing violent extremism:

I'd get this guy in .308, or maybe .243. It doesn't break-down, but it's not very long overall, very light, and you can't break it. The only downside is that the felt recoil in .308 is significant in such a light rifle.

Ruger Frontier Rifle in "target gray."

It's near 7 pounds so I doubt recoil is going to be all that bad. 7 pounds is about average for a bolt gun this is just under. I would really like to see some good sights on that rifle though.

 

[magneto]

The original poster is wanting advice on a rifle to be used for both hunting and self-defence, with the emphasis being on its self defence capabilities.

Emphasis on being on its self defense capabilities??? Where in his post does he emphathise that???

 

[jh205]

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[MIKE MACINTOSH]

The NEF Handi-Rifle might fit your description, sure dosen't look military, can be broken down for discrete carry in pack, also comes in calibers from 22lr to 500 S&W OR 45-70 GOVT. Spare barrels can also be fitted by NEF for about $80 to $100 Dollars. Not as pretty as some other rifles maybe, but its a very simple design with very few parts. less things to brake or go wrong when you might need a rifle the most it is also fairly light weight which is allway's an issue if you have to carry it for any length of time

 

[GibsonFan]

In my opinion we should really do all we can to discourage the kind of delusional extremism which leads people to think they need powerful rifles to defend themselves in some kind of fantasy end-of-the-world scenario. In particular, we should not encourage it on this forum.
J.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Not on your general point, but in regards to this forum in particular. When these fellows talk about guns, they always discuss responsibility, legal implications, reliability and effectiveness. Read through a couple of threads here and you'll see things like lever-actions and break-open shotguns are quite popular here, not so much the super-duper-battle-rifles. Similarly, I bet traditional-type blades far outnumber "tacticool" BS in these guys' kits.

Not to speak for them, but the guys that hang around here don't really exhibit delusional extremism as you mentioned, IMHO. The "grey man" approach is recommended a lot more than any "Rambo" fantasy, in here. I bet most would feel more comfortable with the term "preparedness" over "survivalism". Fieldtestornothing made that pretty clear when he asked the question in the first place:

I am looking for a multi-purpose rifle for a Vehicle/non-Vehicle bug out, hunting, and self defense rifle... I am more interested in a non military rifle.

I wonder, jh205, do you approve of my camo jacket? Or does that mark me as an extremist, too? If you want to talk with some zombie-slaying delusional whackos, there's some next door in the tactical forum. That type doesn't last long in here, they get snickered right on out. I would have thought you'd figured that out by now, since you know what this forum is all about.

There are plenty of forums on the net for that kind of discussion, and this forum isn't one of them and I'd rather that it stayed that way.

Who died and left you in charge? I'm not trying to fight with ya; I just think you should get to know these guys and their opinions a little before you go off on them for being extremists or fostering doomsday scenarios. The only one who brought that stuff up was you, friend.

Rant off, and let me say, I agree with your right to disagree.

 

[mp510]

kel-tech makes a pretty cool rifle in .223. takes ar mags and has ak type sights, and is fairly inexpensive. i believe under 500.00.

built in bipod, and folds in half for storage. is also pretty light.

my friend has one, it shoots well and is accurate

Kel Tec also makes models with folding stocks (can be fired folded IIRC) that are available in non-ban states. I've seen the CA (CT is a ban state ), and it is a nice rifle.

I'm not sure what configuration your AR's are in, maybe their all 24" varmint/ bullseye configuration or are fixed stock 20" service (type) rifles. If you have a shorter model, pop off the the upper from the lower (it's 2 pins, simple enough, no?) and you have broke it pretty much in half. A telescoping stock and the lower is even more stowable.

However, I don't think that 5.56 is an inherently good foraging round for larger game, unless you are capable of making THE shot. I have no clue what your marksmanship skills really are. Something you need to consider. The other fact of the matter is youre a hell of a lot more likely to see small game than larger when your foraging. Deer hunting always leads me to more squirrels, turkey's, and almost everything other than deer. Maybe it would be better to focus on a shotgun (most pump guns will come reasonably apart) or folding/takedown break action. With appropriate load selection you can hunt and defent yourslef with the same, affordable, weapon. If you prefer rifles, maybe a .22 rifle for animals and a centerfire handgun for personal protection. There is also quite a few handguns that are more than capable of taking down larger game. Maybe that's a concept to look into.

 

[messer454]

A friend had one of the Kel Tec .223 rifles and it was a jam o matic. i have also had trouble with some of their pistols myself. They look like they would fill a good niche but IMO I do not trust them.

I have seen pictures of a new Savage Scout rifle that is being introduced this year but not much is being said about it yet. It is in .308 and has a rear peep sight, front sight, scout mount, detachable 4-5 rd mag. It is the same weight as their Sierra rifle I belive.

Looks like this might fit your bill but its not a takedown.

 

[nemoaz]

+1 Keltec for a pack gun.

 

[45-70]

How about a nice scout rifle.

You could convert a beater mauser into one heck of a rifle probably for less than $300 (depending on cost of the rifle)...

 

[SpookyPistolero]

A friend had one of the Kel Tec .223 rifles and it was a jam o matic. i have also had trouble with some of their pistols myself. They look like they would fill a good niche but IMO I do not trust them.

I have seen pictures of a new Savage Scout rifle that is being introduced this year but not much is being said about it yet. It is in .308 and has a rear peep sight, front sight, scout mount, detachable 4-5 rd mag. It is the same weight as their Sierra rifle I belive.

Looks like this might fit your bill but its not a takedown.

That's very cool news about the Savage! I always wanted one but never got one. Do you know much else about the specs or have a link to other info? I was hoping they would have solved a few of the minor problems I kept reading about with the first models.

That might be my 'one gun' this year if it's all it could be...

 

[joeshredd]

Can pick up a .303 or an Ishapor rebuild in .308 for just a couple of hundred bucks... Mount it in a new synthetic stock and you're got a great field gun!

The mauser suggestion would be great, too, and you can get one of those in just about any caliber you'd want... Military reliability in a sheeple-friendly coat!

 

[shecky]

KelTecs have some really mixed reviews, which breaks my heart because I like the way it feels. At this point, I'm just not willing to plunk down the bucks for a possible crapshoot.

 

[rhino]

It's near 7 pounds so I doubt recoil is going to be all that bad. 7 pounds is about average for a bolt gun this is just under. I would really like to see some good sights on that rifle though.

Hmmm... I only speak from my experience with my Ruger M77 MkII Compact, which I thought was the same rifle (without the forward scope mount). I recall that the original frontier rifle had a heavier barrel profile than my compact, but I saw one in a shop on Friday that was a dead ringer for my compact.

Looking at the Ruger web site, I confirm your estimate as they list 6.75 lbs for the Frontier, 6 lbs for my Compact, and 7.5 lbs. for the Standard with wood stock. My Compact doesn't really feel that heavy, but even so it's a pound and a half less than the standard size M77 Mk II.


Anyway, my compact HURTS when you shoot it.

 

[rhino]

In all honesty the last thing this forum needs is discussion of delusional "bug out" scenarios and the kinds of weaponry needed for them.

Just a comment . . .

If you had refrained from repetitive condescension and passive-aggression (such as your use of "delusional" above and in your first message), I think your difference in opinion would have been more easily accepted.

Of course, you can deny that you meant the words you typed in any pejorative sense, but then you'd be adding a little dishonesty to an already unpleasant mixture.

 

[Fieldtestornothing]

Well now, this got pretty interesting.

Rant On:
Suppose I could say many things to ya Jh205, probably not as intelligently and as controlled as others have put them though. So I'll mind my buisness, hell, I'm only an aging Army Grunt. What do I know anyway? But let me let you in on just a little secret. I've looked the devil in the eyes on several occasions. Two theateres of war, three YEARS of my life in deadly conflict as a Paratrooper. Enough to know that firearms have a very real place in ensuring my survival in this world. I am a very peaceful, nice guy. My wife would tell you that anyday. But buddy, YOU better get your head out of your ass if you think firearms have less to do with survival than offroading, hiking, and mountain biking. Survival is about staying alive. In any conditions. I am not a zombie killer. I am a realist. I have seen first hand the effects of a lawless land in Lousiana, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Firearms played a significant role in many of those peoples survival or lack of.

Food procurement tents to also be a priority in a survival situation. A rifle is reconized as one of the best tools to procure food while hunting. A valuable addition to traps, fishing takle, edible plant references ect... I'm sure your getting the idea. It's just another tool in your tool box. It's also a tool that can put any man or beast on equal ground. Important unless you think that you can defeat ANY man in unarmed combat, or two, or three, or four....Or a bear, or a Mt Lion, or ......the list goes on my friend.

I appologize for protraying myself as some sort of zombie killing wierdo. I was interested in gaining some knowledge here. I appreciate all you others who stuck up for me while I was gone. I could say more but...I'm gonna go clean my assualt weapons and prepare for the hordes of attacking zombies

Rant Off:
Some great ideas all. I have several M1A's but they are all set up for High Power and weigh almost 20 Lbs. They also look a little too zombie killerish (Don't want to give that impression). I have fired the Kel-Tecs but wasn't impressed at all with their performance. I love bolt guns, but being a Left handed shooter have problems with them. I was looking at that ruger, and also the Savage Scout models. I'm probably gonna be going with something like that, cost bearing. I just kind of wanted a Lever, because I like the Rapid fire capability, and it seems like it would be an ideal gun for a general purpose application. Thanks for the ideas all!!

 

[Stubai]

Go with a bolt-action 7.62x51 (for hunting) or if you are recoil shy, try a paratrooper sks in 7.62x39. Some people like the Ruger mini 14, although the .223 lacks the punch needed for some applications. On the plus side, the .223 is VERY fun to shoot and accurate in some auto-rifles. It seems the military is still buying up loads of 5.56 ammo in an effort to defend our liberty. Get one of the black rifles and learn to shoot it well. Keep a box of federal 40 grain blitz ammo for the home defense scenario...but the accuracy out to 300 yards? I'd opt for a .308 sniper rifle any day of the week. It will be tough to settle on an 'all-rounder' given your stringent criteria, but your choice should be either a .308, 7.62x39 or a 5.56mm.

 

[GUN SNOB]

I have had a Aunt and a close family Friend both involved in Big cat situations. My Aunts dog was killed and taken off while it was 20 ft from her. The friend was in his yard and a cat (cougar/ monition lion....) was stocking the yard animals. (chickens, domestic cats, dogs...) Our neighbor lost a dog to a bob cat about 3 weeks ago. Had any of these people been alone in the woods they may well have been on the menu. I can think of several stories that have been on the news in the last year and I won't even mention the gaiters in Fl. that eat tourist joggers.

A Friend was treed by a pack of wild dogs several years ago while camping. He had three kids with him and they spent the night in the tree. He fought the dogs off with a piece of fire wood long enough for the kids to get in the tree. The next morning the dog pack was still lurking around when they made the dash for the car, leaving the gear behind.

Many rangers I have come across Carry a side arm. When asked many also keep a long arm (rifle or shotgun) in the truck. These are not just for law enforcement, though there are bad guys in the woods. (I suspect I have more firearms training and experience than most LE personnel)

There is an entire industry dedicated to survival guns for pilots/bird watchers/fishermen/backpackers in 'Bear country'. A Friend in Alaska considered a 12 gage part of his fishing gear just in case giving the bear the fish was not enough.

I must be one of the fanatics everyone hear is worried about. I don't call it zombie killing, I call it what it is, defending my self from the sick F&*^s that lurk on the fringe of society. Because there is an element of society that will feed on the weak, stranded, alone, unprepared and/or targets of opportunity I carry a gun(s). I don't carry a gun to fight Zombies, terrorist or a wave of commie paratroopers. I Carry a gun to shoot Americans who intend to do me or mine harm.

There, guns, are just part of my kit. A tool just like a fire stick, PJ Cotton balls, compass or a roll of T.P with the tube pulled out of it and packed in a zip lock.

I respect your right to not carry a gun, If i choose to carry a gun in a safe, non threatening manner you should show me the same respect. I will refrain from the name calling or voicing my opinion of people who don't think they need a gun or other form of self defense. I don't expect to change anybodies mind but don't label me just because you don't agree with the lessons I have learned in life.

 

[Deerslayer71]

I'm only an aging Army Grunt. What do I know anyway? But let me let you in on just a little secret. I've looked the devil in the eyes on several occasions. Two theateres of war, three YEARS of my life in deadly conflict as a Paratrooper. QUOTE]


Thank you for your service Fieldtest. I appreciate the peaceful sleep I get because of it. :thumbup:

 

[Shotgun]

That's very cool news about the Savage! I always wanted one but never got one. Do you know much else about the specs or have a link to other info? I was hoping they would have solved a few of the minor problems I kept reading about with the first models.

That might be my 'one gun' this year if it's all it could be...

Yeah that about sounds exactly what I want in a rifle.
I found a link check it out.http://www.steyrscout.org/savscout.htm