Munk Bowie edge failure

Bladite said:
15 minutes? you're the fastest in the land then :)

that's a lot of stock removal end to end, and then you've got to keep it perfectly straight, aligned, and more. doesn't include sharpening. nor addressed the heat treat or potential other issues.

bladite
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I agree. I did that once and it took a long time and the area on back wasn't well hardened.
 
Sir, are you the famous Joe Flournoy, MS? Welcome!

Gentlemen, I think we may have been visited by one of the premier bladesmiths of our time.

Steve Ferguson
 
Welcome Joe...*very* nice to have you visit!
 
Bladite said:
15 minutes? you're the fastest in the land then :)

that's a lot of stock removal end to end, and then you've got to keep it perfectly straight, aligned, and more. doesn't include sharpening. nor addressed the heat treat or potential other issues.

bladite
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Er, if you read my post a bit more carefully, you'll note that I said it would affect the blade shape. Clearly you won't be able to regrind the entire blade in 15 minutes and maintain that profile with hand tools. I figured it'd just be a hard user blade at this point if it survives, and that gradual resharpening would smooth out the blade shape without having to hog off a bunch of metal. Not sure what I was thinking!
 
This is a very nice blade, beautiful fullers. I would try to save it.>>>flournoy


The knife is not known for beauty, though I think it has more than imagined in a photograph. Thanks for that- you're one of the few. Welcome to HI land.


munk
 
spiraltwista said:
Intersting stuff Flournoy, but thats how western knives are made & tempered. Not Nepalese kukri.

Spiral
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That's true Spiral, but this one doesn't exactly leap out at you as a traditional kukri, and the kamis wouldn't be doing the heat treat work Mr. Flournoy suggested in any case. Also, just because they did it one way originally (and it seems incorrectly this time) doesn't mean it could not be redone in another, correct?

Had the person the skill to do what was suggested, this would be a way to salvage a useless knife and make it stronger than ever.

Norm
 
Indeed Svashtar, If someone of Mr. Frourney skills or at anyone else with the apptitude did that it may repair the said knife.

But Given the obvious further crack even closer to the handle & the testimony about the rolled edge it seems hardly likly that bieng to hard was the problem in the first place?

That seemerd the issue to me, and an incorrect interpritation of the visible evidence perhaps?

Much more likly a damaged piece of old spring that slipped through the testing process or the old quality control by observation proccess.

I wouldnt trust that blade again myself.

In my book Faulty steel is faulty piece of steel unless reforged at enough temp. with flux to forge weld any other cracks that may currently still be hidden by the buffing proccess.

But each to thier own & certanly things can be done differently, after all they even have electricity & power tools in Nepal nowadays.

Spiral
 
It is my limited understanding that if the leaf spring were forged correctly this would not happen? I don't see what the prior condition of the leaf spring has to do with it. I'm taking from the posts in this thread that it is possible to have a original flaw in the metal not addressed by reforging, but that is not the case here?

Can someone enlighten me as to the desirability of leaf spring compared to Rail line?

munk
 
Weve been here recently before I think Munk?

The forging tempratures in Nepal dont fix cracks, if they did all the kukri houses would offer laminated blades. {thats why they dont.}

Also any cracks would need to be seen & fluxed the same as soldering.

Railway steel can also have faults & is reputedly harder when forged & tempered the same way & has less spring.


Good forging at red hot wont repair cracks.


Spiral
 
So Kamis don't forge hot enough? What about pounding? The combination of pounding and heat is insufficient? I'm asking knife makers. Rail steel would have less flex. OK.


munk
 
Munk You say "So Kamis don't forge hot enough?"

I wouldnt say that . So No I disagree.

They forge hot enough to change rectangular steel bars into kukri.

They dont forge hot enough to repair cracks. thats very different.

Untill steel is nearly molten all the pounding in the world makes no differance, when it comes to cracks..


They use very basic charcoal forges in Nepal, if they put powerfull automated blowers on the could raise the tempreture.

So far to date they havent done that.

But Old Cracks need flux to repair though at high temprature.

I am sure evry bladesmith on this forum will confirm that for you.

The answear is to reject cracked metal, test kukris & HI s traditionnal way of replace any defects when & if they occour.

Spiral
 
Thanks for the info Spiral. Makes sense to me, but I'm not a metalworker.
 
I've introduced a thread on this topic in the Cantina. I'd like to hear other opinions. It does not make sense to my limited brain. Watching color changes and pounding steel is a universal forging technique. I've a forge here with a neighbor and am just learning. If I could take a leaf spring, and gradually pound it into the shape I want, I can't see how a crack would survive. See other thread.

munk
 
munk said:
, I can't see how a crack would survive. See other thread.

munk
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Ok, perhaps you can get to see it oneday.

If what I said wasnt true, evry japanese sword would be worth $20,000 plus

most arnt. Fore the same reason.

Thanks Ted.

Spiral
 
Your veracity is not in doubt, Spiral, but lets talk about metal in the other thread. I think it will get lost here, and I'd like a future reference. Experienced knife makers will see the thread and hopefully weigh in, OK?

munk
 
Question:

How would one forge a big hunka 1/2" steel like the Munk Chunk from a leaf spring? Would folding be involved? Forging two springs together?

That crack looks like two separate pieces of metal separated.

Eric.
 
I'd just assumed they'd gradually pounded a ridge, moved the metal, massed it on one side. You see what I mean? How could you do that and leave a crack? You've made the metal flow- even when they bend the khuk into shape.

munk
 
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