My Carbon Steel Rant

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Buzzbait said:
I haven't had any rust issues with Case CV yet. That could be because it's all mirror polish, where my user GEC's are more of a satin finish. That could be the difference.
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I saw Case recently came out with a stonewashed CV. It looks pretty cool, but I wonder if the characteristics will be the same....
 
Case markets a few patterns in "As ground SS" which looks very traditional & has the benefit of rust resistance & also does not
show fingerprints as the highly polished blades do.
The nail nicks also have better purchase than the highly polished blades.
Unfortunately not many models are offered with these blades.:mad:
 
I really like Case's As Ground finish for the same reasons oldtymer mentioned above. Also because it's not polished and it's not satin either. It's a little bit unique and I like that.
 
It's still a good discussion as long as no one gets too offended. I've been watching this thread since it started because I'm interested in other people's opinion about it. I have one GEC, a cocobolo 74, that I absolutely love. However I don't carry it that often for this particular issue. I would like to have more GEC's but the carbon makes me nervous, especially the new 66 pattern since I'm a stockman fan. I can go on and on about what I want but I choose to miss out due to the time I would have to invest in taking care of them. Granted, it's not that much, but it's more than I care to spend. I want to drop it in my pocket and go without worry. It's a shame since they're so nice and extremely well made in my home state, but I personally don't know if it's worth it. Maybe I'll carry the one I have and if it gets screwed up, I'll chalk it up as a loss and stick to Buck and Case....
 
KBA said:
I was referring to keeping a knife or collection one does not like not trying a knife and finding out one does not like it. We all have been here long enough to know the basics of steel in carbon vs stainless but some seem to forget how this thread started in a rant.

I could care less for discussion in all honesty or the sensitivity needed as though carbon vs stainless is really all that important in life. As I'm sure most here will not spend their last seconds on earth wishing they had discussed this more or found insight in the hobby. I'm actually sure most will spend those last days wishing they had not taken this topic so seriously and just moved on. That is my point.

Yet I am only seen as complaining over what I believe is a waste of time in general not just to the hobby
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Technically yes but a hobby is a distraction. A way to relax, to spend time with things which we wouldn't usually have time or patience for otherwise. Topics that allow us to enjoy ourselves outside of the daily vicissitudes of life. For example I've just finished working a 12 hour work day, it's 8:30pm and I really need to relax. So I discuss carbon vs stainless online rather than thinking of the 2/3 of a million ancient documents still awaiting my attention at work in the museum. :) Earlier this morning I was listening to a lecture on a philosophical topic, a way to gear up my mind to the rather tedious tasks ahead and having to give a serious dressing down to an employee who I might be forced to fire soon. Is a discussion of this sort 'first world problems'? Yes, of course. Is it a useful way to spend time in discussion with our fellow humans in a relaxing way rather than discussing politics? Heck yeah! :D
 
This thread is good simply because it is divisive.:thumbsup: Simply put, I'd appreciate GEC and a lot of other Traditional knives if they offered more quality stainless and did not appear to promote carbon as some manner of virtue steel.

Yes, I know it rusts, yes I know it requires attention, but again in all honesty I would like my GEC collection a whole lot more if a whole lot more of the patterns were in stainless in the first place. My buying intentions have changed yes, I'm no longer able to turn a blind-eye to carbon's limitations as for me it sits as some anachronism. Yet I do appreciate the aesthetics of Traditional knife patterns, less thrilling is carbon's innate tendencies...;)

As for Queen, its D2 production seems to have been cut back a lot lately and is 420 is unlikely to ignite many enthusiasts. Recently, they even seemed to have a certain confusion about exactly what steels they were using, carbon or stainless on some patterns:rolleyes: CASE makes an OK knife, usually...but its patterns are driven by 'collect the whole series' ethos which generates some questionable aesthetics:D Plus, it has insufficient matte or as ground options to their buffed mirror. GEC disdains stainless or other modern variants. Canal Street offered stainless and stainless construction but a severely limited range of scale choices, deeply unimpressive shield of a coin type only, then you have to factor in a more than tame pull on nearly all knives to see that steel alone is not enough. This is surely the point isn't it? Knife enthusiasts like a well finished reliable knife in a range of scale options,patterns and steels and one that's available.

Traditionals cannot live by carbon alone. Well, not for much longer anyway....
 
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jc57 said:
Buck doesn't even make any carbon steel traditionals. Queen makes a few, but their specialty is D2 steel, which is nearly stainless and is a good steel.

I am not sure who you are considering the big 3, but assuming GEC is in that list, they are the only one focusing on carbon steel. They used to produce 440C knives more frequently, but for some reason (perhaps market demand) they rarely do now.
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Case, GEC, Queen. I'm afraid I don't consider D2 'nearly stainless' after carrying a Queen for a year every day though it is as you say, a good steel! Unfortunately the steel is the (only) reason I'm currently selling what was my favourite knife and carry.
 
I would enjoy collecting my GECs more if more of them were stainless. I don't enjoy the constant threat of rust on knives that I want to preserve in their original condition.

That said, my experience with GEC's stainless is that it rusts a lot! A few of mine have developed bad spots that I haven't been able to remove.
 
I always find steel rants entertaining especially in the traditional forum.

My father and grandfather carried 1095 because it was the super steel of the day. Yes 1095 was a super steel at one time. I should also mention they had little choice in steel. My grandfather was a farmer and dad was a tool and die maker. 1095 done right was the best edge holder readily available. The people I grew up around knew the available steels and wanted a knife that would hold an edge.

I don't remember the people I grew up with having pen knives and peanuts, they were not minimalists. It was 3 ¼ to 4” stockmans, muskrats, trappers and barlows.

When I went around asking for advise on my first knife purchase, the answer was Old Timer or Camillus carbon. Those were the recommended brands carried by the local hardware stores. I didn't listen. I saw a pretty Case and bought it and learned the hard way, that they were right.

The group that says buy carbon because it was good enough for our grandfathers and it's traditional. Are are selling you the same line of BS in reverse as the guys in the General Knife Discussion saying buy the latest greatest super steel. They are both steel nuts at opposite ends of the spectrum. They are both wrong, and they will not change their minds. Proper steel for the job and all that.

In the olden days, as today there was a market for stainless. But. Steels like 420HC and 440A were not chosen by companies like Case Buck and Camillus because they were good steels.

Steels like 420HC and 440A were chosen because they could be stamped out by the thousands with out wearing out equipment. Easy to produce, easy to sharpen, easy to take care of but in the same sentence you can't say they hold a great edge. They might be good enough for your uses but that's not the same as holding great edge.

The good old days of the pocket knife was not generations ago, It is here today.
Now you can get the same proven traditional patterns, in a variety of steels.
CV, 420HC, 440A, 1095, 440C, ATS34/154CM, CPM 154, D2 to name the more common.

Carbon vs stainless it doesn't matter as long as you like it. Your choices have never been better, just pick what you prefer, need or want.
Then go out and cut something.

1095 is not going away and neither are the newer steels. Knives and steels evolve, you don't like it, so what. Get over it.
Rant over.
 
Buzzbait said:
Rant Mode On
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Buzzbait said:
Rant Mode On
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Uggghhhhhh!!!!!!!! For the first time all year, it's been exceptionally hot in Upstate New York. The last 3 days have been beastly, temperatures reaching as high as 95 degrees yesterday afternoon, and humid. My wife and I haven't gotten around to putting the air conditioner in the bedroom window yet, so we've just been leaving the windows open and turning on some fans.

Well, I always have a few choice traditional pocketknives on my nightstand. I grab one every morning, and put it in my pocket. The rest of my knives live in a storage room upstairs, safe and sound. The windows are always closed upstairs, and the door is kept shut.

Anyway, I go to grab a knife from my nightstand last night, a pristine Case CV sowbelly stockman, to cut up some cardboard for recycling. I open the big sheepsfoot, and stare at a giant nasty orange patch of rust. Two blades now have deeply pitted spots on them, after buffing them out.

To make matters worse, all 3 of the carbon steel knives on my nightstand were effected. The Sowbelly got it the worst, but my Soda Scout and Esky Zulu also had large orange rust spots, and those two already had a heavy patina going on them.

The three remaining knives on my dresser, My Boker 440C camp knife, my Camillus 440A C4 saw scout, and me Remington 440A Trailhand were not even remotely effected.

I am now officially sick of carbon steel. I really love old traditional pocketknives, and I love the edge I can get on 1095 with just an Arkansas stone. I also adore the look of a blade with a nice dark patina. But it just isn't worth it, for knives that I actually plan on using. This exact same thing happened to me last year also, and three of four GEC's were forever pitted. I went camping last summer, spent a rainy two days in a tent, and couldn't keep up with the rust forming on my Texas Camp Knife.

I've never liked Case's soft Tru-Sharp all that much, so Case is now pretty much eliminated from my purchasing decisions altogether, other than the occasional model with upgraded steel.

I'm also done with 99% of the GEC knives that are manufactured. I love GEC with all my heart. I really do. But I just can't stomach the heartache of not being able to use their knives for even a few summer days without ruining them. I have no interest in buying them, just to forever store them in dark dry room. That's not me.

So where does this leave me in the traditional knife world? I'm not totally sure. I only really collect American-made pocketknives, and there isn't much made in America anymore, that is of decent quality and features stainless steel.

Maybe Queen's D2 will surprise me, and not be effected like my carbon steel knives were. It's hard to say. Maybe I'll toss a D2 "test knife" in my bedroom for a couple days, and see what happens. But I'm not sure that I like the idea of buying Queens from the Internet, where I can't handle them first. And they aren't sold in stores locally.

I have a feeling that I'll be saving a whole lot of money from here on. I have a GEC #66 preorder still outstanding, and I'll pick up the Bladeforums knife this year, but I think that's it for me, in the world of carbon steel. I'm done with it. I'm sick of carbon steel and all of its issues. There's a good reason why stainless was invented.

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Rant Mode Off
Click to expand...

Uggghhhhhh!!!!!!!! For the first time all year, it's been exceptionally hot in Upstate New York. The last 3 days have been beastly, temperatures reaching as high as 95 degrees yesterday afternoon, and humid. My wife and I haven't gotten around to putting the air conditioner in the bedroom window yet, so we've just been leaving the windows open and turning on some fans.

Well, I always have a few choice traditional pocketknives on my nightstand. I grab one every morning, and put it in my pocket. The rest of my knives live in a storage room upstairs, safe and sound. The windows are always closed upstairs, and the door is kept shut.

Anyway, I go to grab a knife from my nightstand last night, a pristine Case CV sowbelly stockman, to cut up some cardboard for recycling. I open the big sheepsfoot, and stare at a giant nasty orange patch of rust. Two blades now have deeply pitted spots on them, after buffing them out.

To make matters worse, all 3 of the carbon steel knives on my nightstand were effected. The Sowbelly got it the worst, but my Soda Scout and Esky Zulu also had large orange rust spots, and those two already had a heavy patina going on them.

The three remaining knives on my dresser, My Boker 440C camp knife, my Camillus 440A C4 saw scout, and me Remington 440A Trailhand were not even remotely effected.

I am now officially sick of carbon steel. I really love old traditional pocketknives, and I love the edge I can get on 1095 with just an Arkansas stone. I also adore the look of a blade with a nice dark patina. But it just isn't worth it, for knives that I actually plan on using. This exact same thing happened to me last year also, and three of four GEC's were forever pitted. I went camping last summer, spent a rainy two days in a tent, and couldn't keep up with the rust forming on my Texas Camp Knife.

I've never liked Case's soft Tru-Sharp all that much, so Case is now pretty much eliminated from my purchasing decisions altogether, other than the occasional model with upgraded steel.

I'm also done with 99% of the GEC knives that are manufactured. I love GEC with all my heart. I really do. But I just can't stomach the heartache of not being able to use their knives for even a few summer days without ruining them. I have no interest in buying them, just to forever store them in dark dry room. That's not me.

So where does this leave me in the traditional knife world? I'm not totally sure. I only really collect American-made pocketknives, and there isn't much made in America anymore, that is of decent quality and features stainless steel.

Maybe Queen's D2 will surprise me, and not be effected like my carbon steel knives were. It's hard to say. Maybe I'll toss a D2 "test knife" in my bedroom for a couple days, and see what happens. But I'm not sure that I like the idea of buying Queens from the Internet, where I can't handle them first. And they aren't sold in stores locally.

I have a feeling that I'll be saving a whole lot of money from here on. I have a GEC #66 preorder still outstanding, and I'll pick up the Bladeforums knife this year, but I think that's it for me, in the world of carbon steel. I'm done with it. I'm sick of carbon steel and all of its issues. There's a good reason why stainless was invented.

--------------------------------------------
Rant Mode Off
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Dean51 said:
I always find steel rants entertaining especially in the traditional forum.

My father and grandfather carried 1095 because it was the super steel of the day. Yes 1095 was a super steel at one time. I should also mention they had little choice in steel. My grandfather was a farmer and dad was a tool and die maker. 1095 done right was the best edge holder readily available. The people I grew up around knew the available steels and wanted a knife that would hold an edge.

I don't remember the people I grew up with having pen knives and peanuts, they were not minimalists. It was 3 ¼ to 4” stockmans, muskrats, trappers and barlows.

When I went around asking for advise on my first knife purchase, the answer was Old Timer or Camillus carbon. Those were the recommended brands carried by the local hardware stores. I didn't listen. I saw a pretty Case and bought it and learned the hard way, that they were right.

The group that says buy carbon because it was good enough for our grandfathers and it's traditional. Are are selling you the same line of BS in reverse as the guys in the General Knife Discussion saying buy the latest greatest super steel. They are both steel nuts at opposite ends of the spectrum. They are both wrong, and they will not change their minds. Proper steel for the job and all that.

In the olden days, as today there was a market for stainless. But. Steels like 420HC and 440A were not chosen by companies like Case Buck and Camillus because they were good steels.

Steels like 420HC and 440A were chosen because they could be stamped out by the thousands with out wearing out equipment. Easy to produce, easy to sharpen, easy to take care of but in the same sentence you can't say they hold a great edge. They might be good enough for your uses but that's not the same as holding great edge.

The good old days of the pocket knife was not generations ago, It is here today.
Now you can get the same proven traditional patterns, in a variety of steels.
CV, 420HC, 440A, 1095, 440C, ATS34/154CM, CPM 154, D2 to name the more common.

Carbon vs stainless it doesn't matter as long as you like it. Your choices have never been better, just pick what you prefer, need or want.
Then go out and cut something.

1095 is not going away and neither are the newer steels. Knives and steels evolve, you don't like it, so what. Get over it.
Rant over.
Click to expand...
 
I would highly recommend putting a dehumidifier in the room where you store your knives. Makes a world of difference. They can pull a gallon or more of moisture from the room each day. It also helps to remove that sticky-tacky feel on the floors and furniture. Great investment, you won't regret it.
 
Posts that are not about knives are going to get moved elsewhere.
Post them in the Lounge. Post them in Community. Don't post them in the threads. I don't care how philosophical and profound you are. This is a knife forum. We talk about knives here. 5 posts moved.

Dean51 said:
Carbon vs stainless it doesn't matter as long as you like it. Your choices have never been better, just pick what you prefer, need or want.
Then go out and cut something.
Click to expand...
Amen, Brother. Buy and use what you like. Don't tell other people what they should like.
 
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knarfeng said:
Posts that are not about knives are going to get moved elsewhere.
Post them in the Lounge. Post them in Community. Don't post them in the threads. I don't care how philosophical and profound you are. This is a knife forum. We talk about knives here. 5 posts moved.


Amen, Brother. Buy and use what you like. Don't tell other people what they should like.
Click to expand...

And post about sailors are and thank you threads are and other non knife talk is.

Yet we can't talk about the hobby as a whole and bring motivating factors into why we buy, keep, and sale.

I find you you contradict yourself constantly Frank and even have to edit your own post as though all knives need to be painted because someone mentions painted steel.

I may be philosophical in thought or come across as one way or another but your opinion of my post doesn't change my opinion or stance. Knife talk is not all that goes on here and you know it.

I respect you and and Gary and believe you do a well enough job but don't come in here with a position of power and make such claims and contradict yourself.

I graceful will leave BF but good grief half the post in the "porch" are not of knives.

Feel free to edit as you will
 
knarfeng said:
Posts that are not about knives are going to get moved elsewhere.
Post them in the Lounge. Post them in Community. Don't post them in the threads. I don't care how philosophical and profound you are. This is a knife forum. We talk about knives here. 5 posts moved.


Amen, Brother. Buy and use what you like. Don't tell other people what they should like.
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THANK YOU, Frank!!!
 
Buzz

I hear what you are saying since I live in upstate NY too. Maybe your are further up than me because we have not hit 90 yet but it has been warm and humid the last few days. What caught me that maybe many did not catch on here is you mentioning your window a/c unit. I am assuming you have an older home like me. Many older homes up here do not have central air, and if they do, they are aftermarket.
So, living in the south might be hard to compare since it is total central air there (climate controlled).
 
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KBA said:
And post about sailors are and thank you threads are and other non knife talk is.

Yet we can't talk about the hobby as a whole and bring motivating factors into why we buy, keep, and sale.

I find you you contradict yourself constantly Frank and even have to edit your own post as though all knives need to be painted because someone mentions painted steel.

I may be philosophical in thought or come across as one way or another but your opinion of my post doesn't change my opinion or stance. Knife talk is not all that goes on here and you know it.

I respect you and and Gary and believe you do a well enough job but don't come in here with a position of power and make such claims and contradict yourself.

I graceful will leave BF but good grief half the post in the "porch" are not of knives.

Feel free to edit as you will
Click to expand...
what is the porch?
 
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