My Carbon Steel Rant

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joeradza said:
This thread has gotten to the point of ridiculousness. If you can't , won't, or don't want to maintain carbon steel then why buy it. As far as using a carbon steel knife in a shipyard, wrong tool for the job. You just don't maintain it properly. Ships are not made with stainless steel and last a long time, so what's the answer, maintenance.
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Completely agree. Folks have been here long enough to know more than what is being displayed in most of this post. Heck the op has been here for years and it seems has just now figured out carbon is not for him.

I know some here want to go back and forth and that's fine but to go to this extent over a tool when you are the one who decides what you buy and use is just as said above getting old.

I could understand if some or most here were new to the hobby but come on guys you all have been here long enough to get over this extremely easy concept to grasp. Carbon patinas and rust and requires maintenance. If you don't like it don't buy it. If you don't want to use it, don't. If you don't want to maintain your collection then let it go. It's that easy and doesn't require empathy for me to understand that.

Who cares what someone else from 1700 would have used they're all dead. It all matters what you enjoy using now and if you don't enjoy it why the heck do you even own it.
 
This Case split back came to me as a freebie gift when I bought a power tool. I carried it for a month or so and was po'd when it rusted up rather seriously. In the ensuing decades I have learned to properly care for carbon steel blades. I carry both carbon and SS these days, and while I like the low maintenance of SS, carbon steel rings the nostalgia gong. Reminds me of the EDCs of my dad and grandpa.
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Peregrin said:
From the guidelines,


Keep it friendly. Keep it civil. It stays open. If not, it gets closed.
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Gary if you refering to my post please let me know. While I tried to keep it "friendly and civil" I find it sometimes needs to be real as well. We can all go back in forth for pages upon pages on the topic but until everone gets real with what is really being discussed it will only go in circles. Maybe thats what the forum is for is, to talk in circles, but it just gets old.
 
This thread has made me curious; lots of people seem to have rust issues with pocket carried carbon steel, but none of my CV knives have has this problem.
I live in the hot, humid south and sweat ALOT in the shop where I work, but the old Sodbuster has only taken a nice patina, no rust.

Is Case's CV a fairly rust resistant steel or is there a body chemistry thing at work here?
 
My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, Brett ( KBA KBA ). I felt the thread was trending in a direction that could cause a problem. Just my attempt to nip it in the bud. No worries.

Someone posted "Carry what you like. Like what you carry", or something similar. A good rule I think.
I found out long ago that I want to carry a pocket knife to make my life easier. If I have to spend too much time maintaining it, that doesn't make it easier for me.
 
solphilos said:
Is Case's CV a fairly rust resistant steel or is there a body chemistry thing at work here?
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I haven't had any rust issues with Case CV yet. That could be because it's all mirror polish, where my user GEC's are more of a satin finish. That could be the difference.
 
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Doc @Dr-Mabuse you have a point regarding steel choice, if a little off topic. Buck went through this a number of years ago, when their new tooling method couldn't stand up to 440c. After a short while they settled on 420hc. (I know, old news to a lot of folks here). With the BOS HT it's quite good, with similar character to 1095, importantly holding an edge but still easily touched up I've read. (I just deleted a thread on this today from my watched conversations.) I think Buck had to gain acceptance on this, but now sells traditionals with this steel like hotcakes.

I've read people's statements here and elsewhere that they liked a knife in the $100 range but the 420hc steel killed the deal. But the funny thing is, Case's current SS steel is basically 420hc with a lower RC, and Case sells plenty of knives too.

In the end, GEC has absolutely no pressure to change so they won't.

My 2¢.
 
Carried a Case CV Small Texas Jack today. It was 98 F outside with relative humidity between 40% and 70%. Though I am not out in the heat except walking to and from my car. No rust. I carried that same knife for the first half of 2014 (or was it 2015?). Never rusted then either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
knarfeng said:
On a ship a lot of that "maintenance" is called paint.
So, you want him to paint his knife, I take it?
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LOL! A lot of the guys that my dad had as buddies when I was small worked in maritime trades. I used to think they painted their blades on their line knives brown! It was of course rust.
 
I wonder how many sailors on cargo ships (the ultimate 'working tool' of the shipping world) would mourn the invention of ship building metal which would not involve constant painting. How many would only ever buy the 'old style' ships with it's requirement to constantly touch up the paint for traditions sake? I wonder if they would have forums where the work was considered part of the character and charm and modern sailors rejected for not wanting to carry out the constant work?

I agree with everything that makes a traditional a better choice than whatever the latest over thick, over big, over tacti-cool framelock flipper that is popular today. Those reasons are very good reasons and have nothing to do with history, they are as relevant today. I just can't find the logic with the nostalgia for the constant metal maintenance in both rust prevention and sharpness that using old metal involves or the associated cognitive dissonance. Whether it's as a tool or pocket jewellery, I believe 1095 is the wrong answer for anything other than manufacturing ease and cost.
 
Pomsbz said:
I wonder if they would have forums where the work was considered part of the character and charm and modern sailors rejected for not wanting to carry out the constant work?
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Sailors, as in people that get around with sails? Gee, I thought they all moved on to engine powered vessels....
 
Bartleby said:
Yes, I am referring to definition two. People still use sails for transport, even though they are obsolete. Just like some people use knives that rust even though they might choose not to do so.
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A sailing boat and a motor boat are two very different ways of approaching water transport. A completely different experience and joy. I can enjoy the experience of riding my bike even though I own a car.

IMO, as opposed to those examples, using 1095 steel is just to save money or due to outdated machinery. There is no advantage for the end user other than nostalgia for an era which would have used better materials like a shot if they could have. Are we as an buying public really that hipster that of the big three making traditional knives today two of them are pretty much only doing carbon steel and cheap carbon steel at that? I'm confused as to what the advantages are for actually cutting and using the thing over something like 154cm which is stainless, holds an edge far longer and is nice and easy to sharpen.

50-100 years from now the collections of modern traditionals will be looked at by history. They will see beautiful well made knives. But they will see that the steel choice was purposely crippled as a marketing ploy to give the impression of 'retro' and I honestly believe they will be rejected as a result. As curios of interest they will have value. As examples of the possibilities and art of slipjoint pocket knife making in the 21 century? Nope. The conclusion of history will have been 'they could have made them better but chose not to'.
 
KBA said:
Completely agree. Folks have been here long enough to know more than what is being displayed in most of this post. Heck the op has been here for years and it seems has just now figured out carbon is not for him.

I know some here want to go back and forth and that's fine but to go to this extent over a tool when you are the one who decides what you buy and use is just as said above getting old.

I could understand if some or most here were new to the hobby but come on guys you all have been here long enough to get over this extremely easy concept to grasp. Carbon patinas and rust and requires maintenance. If you don't like it don't buy it. If you don't want to use it, don't. If you don't want to maintain your collection then let it go. It's that easy and doesn't require empathy for me to understand that.

Who cares what someone else from 1700 would have used they're all dead. It all matters what you enjoy using now and if you don't enjoy it why the heck do you even own it.
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Buying a knife you don't like and complaining about it is kinda like... well, it's kinda like reading a thread you don't like and complaining about it. :) I've found many of the comments in the thread interesting, some mirror my thoughts, some don't.
 
Canal Street Cutlery made traditional knives in newer steels. That alone was not enough to keep them in business.

The vast majority of Case knives are made in stainless steel. They do keep a few families of CV steel around for those who like it, but from the statements of Case dealers whose posts I read on the Case Collector's Club forum, probably 90% of their sales are stainless blades. Every once in a while they will try using 154CM, but that bumps the price up higher than current Case customers are readily willing to pay.

Buck doesn't even make any carbon steel traditionals. Queen makes a few, but their specialty is D2 steel, which is nearly stainless and is a good steel.

I am not sure who you are considering the big 3, but assuming GEC is in that list, they are the only one focusing on carbon steel. They used to produce 440C knives more frequently, but for some reason (perhaps market demand) they rarely do now.

I'm fairly old and if for some reason anything I do is considered "hipster" it's because things I've been doing for a long time have suddenly come into fashion without my knowing it. :D
 
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