My Case Tribal Lock will not get sharp!!

I must Be dealing with an unbelievably hard steel
It doesn't matter what steel it is. Your course stone does the work. The finer stones are just mostly polishing out the scratch marks left by the course stone. At least that is the way it works for me. You said you didn't raise a bur. That means there is very little chance You got it to a complete apex (sharp). You can spend hours, or days trying to finish getting to that apex with your fine stone and or strop. Or you can go back to your course stone, raise a burr on each side, so the you know you are to the apex. Then refine that edge with your finer grits to whatever level of polish you prefer. I think you will get to sharp faster by going back to your course stone, but that's up to you. Suit yourself.

O.B.
 
I must Be dealing with an unbelievably hard steel
☺️😄😆😂😂😂
sorry
but no
quite , quite the opposite .

perhaps , and this is just a guess but maybe you are taking this whole 'NEVER PRESS HARD ON A DIAMOND STONE' toooooo muuuuuch to heart .
Like I said before put a significant amount of downward force while sharpening . At least this one time until you get your bur .
ALSO
you should be able to get a wire edge eventually with the 220 stone but if you want to quit " playing " you could get a more aggressive stone , down around 80 or even 60 grit .
For sure , for sure , for sure DOES NOT have to be diamond for this squishy Case steel .

Bob knows I LOVE Case knives but it isn't for their knife blade heat treat it is for their wonderful handle/blade patterns ( handle and blade shapes ) .
I have about a hundred Case knives including over twenty five full size Trappers and a couple of Tribal locks .

Putting a decent edge on many ( most ) Case knives takes some significant time . . . since they seem to have so much confusion about doing it themselves .
 
Maybe this will help and here is some background.. I have the worksharp precision adjust, with the diamond stone upgrade, green strop and Hapstone leather strop and adapter with Hapstone 0.25 Micron diamond spray. Idk exactly it's the worksharp that cost like around a hundred plus a few upgrades.

You have to work with it some depending on certain knive's over-all edge geometry and sometimes even heat treat I think. This is exclusively at the lower grits 220 and 330. You will be removing the most steel with those and may in your case be having to completely reshape (reprofile) the edge. I have multiple times and it will show you who grinds their knives right and who doesn't. I then remove the burr and continue up in higher grit progressions removing the burr each time before going to a higher stone, and then stopping. And that is if it goes smoothly and successfully. If the 220 and 320 don't cut it after a while, then I either keep going with those stones or try running the full stone course progressions and then do it all again. Sometimes that has knocked the shoulders down on an edge enough to reprofile. I've had a lot of luck with this.

I've worn a few sets of those 220 and 320 grit out on some seriously less than ideally ground pieces.. I always take a black sharpie or other permanent marker and paint both sides of the edge including the apex. Then once the knife is secured I test a straight up and down pass on a short section of the edge to see if it removes the marker and keep going and adjusting the angle up or down, usually higher, they are realy ever thin, or making passes on a small part of the edge and keep feeling for a burr. Find the burr and see that marker is coming off and you're probably in business. Until the tip. Then that usually has to be more carefully done unless it grinds easily and doesn't round out.

Tips are often thicker but not alwaysToAnd thevstylenofbplade impacts all of this too. To not round out some knife tips when doing a pass, to me it will feel like you are keeping the stone flat like you would on the straight part of a knife edge and then as you continue your pass up the curve and to the tip you kind hold it level and flat instead of letting it level with the curve to the tip. This doesn't always apply but that is how I tell an edge may be thicker, sharpen it, and not round it off. It took a few rounded tips to know that.

I've reground a case folder a new edge before bc whoever did it at the factory had clearly not been introduced to measuring tools. It took a minute. And it was initially harder to make a burr. I think bc of the steel type and heat treat, it was tough but not hard I think. It didn't sharpen like 1095 or even cpm3v. It did seem to want to go the way your situation went. And it had a low edge angle on one side and somewhat higher and rounder on the other. Just takes more grinding and keeping even strokes to reshape. Most of the case knives I grew up seeing were either sharpened funny or put on grinders by people that just needed a cutting tool not a laser scalpel. I just had to keep at it until I made progress and even with low grit diamonds through the steel (420?).. it took a long time.. you've got this.

I have sharpened many, many knives with this system, folders, small knives, medium knives and made some solid attempts with bigger knives (Busse, etc). Its a good system but has real limitations. I have gotten some outstanding edges on most of my knives with it. But not all. The 'not all' is a story for another time along with the 'why.'
 
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Maybe this will help and here is some background.. I have the worksharp precision adjust, with the diamond stone upgrade, green strop and Hapstone leather strop with Hapstone 0.25 Micron diamond spray. Idk exactly it's the one that cost like around a hundred plus a few upgrades.

You have to work with it some depending on certain knives over-all edge geometry and sometimes even heat treat I think. This is exclusively at the lower grits 220 and 330. You will be removing the most steel with those and may in your case be having to completely reshape (reprofile) the edge. I then remove the burr and continue up in higher grit progressions removing the burr each time before going to a higher stone, and then stopping. And that is if it goes smugly and successfully. If the 220 and 320 don't cut it after a while, then I either keep going with those stones or try running the full stone course progressions and then do it all again. Sometimes that has knocked the shoulders down on an edge enough to reprofile. I've had a lot of luck with this.

I've worn a few sets of those 220 and 320 grit out on some seriously less than ideally ground pieces.. I always take a black sharpie or other permanent marker and paint both sides of the edge including the apex. Then once the knife is secured I test a straight up and down pass on a short section of the edge to see if it removes the marker and keep going and adjusting the angle up or down, usually higher, they are realy ever thin, or making passes on a small part of the edge and keep feeling for a burr. Find the burr and see that marker is coming off and you're probably in business. Until the tip. Then that usually has to be more carefully done unless it grinds easily and doesn't round out. Tips are often thicker on the unsweetened but not always.

I've reground a case folder a new edge before bc whoever did it at the factory had clearly not been introduced to measuring tools. It took a minute. And it was initially harder to make a burr. I think bc of the steel type and heat treat. It didn't sharpen like 1095 or even cpm3v. It did seem to want to go the way your situation went. And it had lowedge edge angle on ome side and somewhat higher and rounder on the other. Just takes more grinding and keeping even strokes to reshape. Most of the case knives I grew up seeing were either sharpened funny or put on grinders by people that just needed a cutting tool not a laser scalpel. I just had to keep at it until I made progress and even with low grit diamonds through the steel (420?).. it took a long time.. you've got this.

I have sharpened many, many knives with this system, folders, small knives, medium knives and made some solid attempts with bigger knives (Busse, etc). I have gotten some outstanding edges on most of my knives. But not all. The 'not all' is a story for another time along with the 'why.'
Thank you for this!! This is encouraging to me. I felt Like a failure or like I’ve ruined it in my trying to get it sharp. I’ll keep pressing forward
 
☺️😄😆😂😂😂
sorry
but no
quite , quite the opposite .

perhaps , and this is just a guess but maybe you are taking this whole 'NEVER PRESS HARD ON A DIAMOND STONE' toooooo muuuuuch to heart .
Like I said before put a significant amount of downward force while sharpening . At least this one time until you get your bur .
ALSO
you should be able to get a wire edge eventually with the 220 stone but if you want to quit " playing " you could get a more aggressive stone , down around 80 or even 60 grit .
For sure , for sure , for sure DOES NOT have to be diamond for this squishy Case steel .

Bob knows I LOVE Case knives but it isn't for their knife blade heat treat it is for their wonderful handle/blade patterns ( handle and blade shapes ) .
I have about a hundred Case knives including over twenty five full size Trappers and a couple of Tribal locks .

Putting a decent edge on many ( most ) Case knives takes some significant time . . . since they seem to have so much confusion about doing it themselves .
Thank you for this! I got Discouraged and thought maybe i ruined it because i had tried so many timed
 
I tell You what I’ve tried it all. I dont Know how many passes on a guided system from a coarse to a fine to coarse ceramic to fine ceramic to guided stropping a half million times and nothing changes. This thing seems to be made of the same material as wolverines claws
As others are suggesting, it does sound like the edge isn't apexed (no burr yet, in other words). That suggests to me that the existing edge was probably very thick or wide in angle (or probably both). Even a relatively soft steel like Case's 420HC can present problems like this, including clogging the stones you're using. If that's the situation, then the work gets even slower as the clogged stone isn't able to cut the steel anymore.

The burr is everything here. With your coarsest stone, keep going until you can get the burr - don't bother with finer stones or strops until that happens. And if you can post a clear, close up picture or two of what the edge looks like, that should clear up what the issues are in terms of getting very specific advice on what to do. There are a lot of experienced eyes here and a clear photo will show what is going on.
 
A pair of Tribal Locks, SS and CV. As you can see, there is nothing extraordinary about the edges, yet they both are "hair poppin'" sharp.

54317034661_32598c3be7_b.jpg
 
As others are suggesting, it does sound like the edge isn't apexed (no burr yet, in other words). That suggests to me that the existing edge was probably very thick or wide in angle (or probably both). Even a relatively soft steel like Case's 420HC can present problems like this, including clogging the stones you're using. If that's the situation, then the work gets even slower as the clogged stone isn't able to cut the steel anymore.

The burr is everything here. With your coarsest stone, keep going until you can get the burr - don't bother with finer stones or strops until that happens. And if you can post a clear, close up picture or two of what the edge looks like, that should clear up what the issues are in terms of getting very specific advice on what to do. There are a lot of experienced eyes here and a clear photo will show what is going on.
 
As others are suggesting, it does sound like the edge isn't apexed (no burr yet, in other words). That suggests to me that the existing edge was probably very thick or wide in angle (or probably both). Even a relatively soft steel like Case's 420HC can present problems like this, including clogging the stones you're using. If that's the situation, then the work gets even slower as the clogged stone isn't able to cut the steel anymore.

The burr is everything here. With your coarsest stone, keep going until you can get the burr - don't bother with finer stones or strops until that happens. And if you can post a clear, close up picture or two of what the edge looks like, that should clear up what the issues are in terms of getting very specific advice on what to do. There are a lot of experienced eyes here and a clear photo will show what is going on.
 
I’m hoping yall can see the pics:)
Yes, i see what youre describing there. That is one if it were mine I would reprofile or sort of reshape the edge if that makes sense. A person who is much better at that than I, could probably do that and blend it to mimic a factory appearance. I would just reprofile and make the best of it appearance wise if it were mine, it can get frustrating lol. It can be done
 
Yes, i see what youre describing there. That is one if it were mine I would reprofile or sort of reshape the edge if that makes sense. A person who is much better at that than I, could probably do that and blend it to mimic a factory appearance. I would just reprofile and make the best of it appearance wise if it were mine, it can get frustrating lol. It can be done you think it’s too thick behind the edge?
 
I’m hoping yall can see the pics:)
Yes, I see them. It looks like maybe there's some rounding or faceting of the bevels. My edges looked like that when I was still trying to get a feel for freehand sharpening. Basically, when I was seeing that, it was due to a tendency to rock the spine up/down, which will leave the bevel behind the apex looking sort of faceted - you'll see a bright reflection of each individual 'facet', depending on the angle of the light under which it's viewed. This also happened with mine when the existing factory edge grind was pretty obtuse (wide in angle), and most or all of the grinding I was doing was behind the edge apex itself.

This is where marking the bevels with ink (like a Sharpie or other permanent ink marker) is helpful in gauging whether you're reaching the apex consistently. Use a magnifier under BRIGHT light to inspect for that as you make each pass, so you can adjust the held angle as you proceed. If the ink is being scrubbed off behind the apex but not near the apex itself, it means your held angle is lower than the existing edge angle. That by itself is OK if you want to narrow the edge angle - I always do, for the most part, with a newly acquired knife. But it'll take more time to grind all the way to a new apex when you do that. But steadily watching where that ink is coming off will guide you as you work, in making adjustments to your held angle. When you are starting to get all the way to a new apex, that's where you need to start watching for the formation of the burr from each side and along the full length of the edge. It's OK to see that faceted look on your edges if you're freehand sharpening - it goes with the territory. But the key is to make sure that most of your quality sharpening passes are reaching the apex. And when they do, watch for the burr.

I attached some close-up pics below of the edge on a Victorinox paring knife I'd sharpened a few years ago. You can see that faceted look pretty clearly in the 2nd photo. And the burr (or wire edge) indicated I was in fact creating a new & crisp apex, which is where 'sharp' starts to happen. Not all burrs or wire edges will be so obvious as in these photos. But I was working with that particular knife to make a burr that I could easily see. When it started separating from the edge, it just looked like a very, very fine thread or fiber in the bright light, by naked eye.
kxNPzMN.jpg

mIacPbu.jpg

B047BIR.jpg
 
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Yes, I see them. It looks like maybe there's some rounding or faceting of the bevels. My edges looked like that when I was still trying to get a feel for freehand sharpening. Basically, when I was seeing that, it was due to a tendency to rock the spine up/down, which will leave the bevel behind the apex looking sort of faceted - you'll see a bright reflection of each individual 'facet', depending on the angle of the light under which it's viewed. This also happened with mine when the existing factory edge grind was pretty obtuse (wide in angle), and most or all of the grinding I was doing was behind the edge apex itself.

This is where marking the bevels with ink (like a Sharpie or other permanent ink marker) is helpful in gauging whether you're reaching the apex consistently. Use a magnifier under BRIGHT light to inspect for that as you make each pass, so you can adjust the held angle as you proceed. If the ink is being scrubbed off behind the apex but not near the apex itself, it means your held angle is lower than the existing edge angle. That by itself is OK if you want to narrow the edge angle - I always do, for the most part, with a newly acquired knife. But it'll take more time to grind all the way to a new apex when you do that. But steadily watching where that ink is coming off will guide you as you work, in making adjustments to your held angle. When you are starting to get all the way to a new apex, that's where you need to start watching for the formation of the burr from each side and along the full length of the edge. It's OK to see that faceted look on your edges if you're freehand sharpening - it goes with the territory. But the key is to make sure that most of your quality sharpening passes are reaching the apex. And when they do, watch for the burr.

I attached some close-up pics below of the edge on a Victorinox paring knife I'd sharpened a few years ago. You can see that faceted look pretty clearly in the 2nd photo. And the burr (or wire edge) indicated I was in fact creating a new & crisp apex, which is where 'sharp' starts to happen. Not all burrs or wire edges will be so obvious as in these photos. But I was working with that particular knife to make a burr that I could easily see. When it started separating from the edge, it just looked like a very, very fine thread or fiber in the bright light, by naked eye.
kxNPzMN.jpg

mIacPbu.jpg

B047BIR.jpg
This is super helpful! Looking at the pics do you think i harmed it or removed too much or is it contrary have i just Rounded it and not removed anything?
 
I can't open the pics, but it occurred to me this may just be another "case factory belt grinder" edge issue. If they didn't kiss the full edge length on the belt then they sometimes leave either end or both uneven and it can be a bear to get it proper the whole length.
 
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