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My EDC Story - Victorinox Combo Tool Story
- Thread starter UnknownVT
- Start date
I swear you guys.... just when I'm about to try to continue about the combo tool anomoly I may have discovered - you get me all interested in something else
Here's the Phillips driver (corkscrew replacement) with the can key - these instructions for use are from that circa 1987/88 Vic catalog:
I think this was on the earlier corkscrew replacement Phillips drivers -
That catalog (1987/88) seemed to imply that the corkscrew replacement Phillips all had the can key - for both 84mm and 91mm sizes (it was the same tool) - also the photocopied even earlier catalog (year?) Frank had sent me also shows the Phillips with the can-key -
But the 1992/3 catalogs no longer has any mention of the can-key.
Vincent, your catalog snippets bring back memories. As a kid, I can remember looking at a fold out Victorinox catalog so many times it fell apart. The pictures were so crisp and it was very well put together. Thanks again.
Oh, yeah. As a warning to anyone trying to pick up a BSA Victorinox Yeoman (b/c the standard Yeoman is impossible to find), Victorinox is substituting the BSA Explorer in the BSA Yeoman marked box. Make sure you have the retailer check the knife in the box first.
Oh, yeah. As a warning to anyone trying to pick up a BSA Victorinox Yeoman (b/c the standard Yeoman is impossible to find), Victorinox is substituting the BSA Explorer in the BSA Yeoman marked box. Make sure you have the retailer check the knife in the box first.
Great advice APS -
It only shows that Swiss Army Brands recognize that the Yeoman has basically all the major functions as the Explorer -
Another case of the Combo Tool replacing the small blade but eliminating the two separate can-opener and cap-lifter tools - thus saving one backspring width
- which is important to some of us
Yeoman (with Combo tool)
Explorer (with two separate standard tools)
This is the scan of the Forschner catalog (circa 1987/88) I posted earlier:
toward the top righthand quadrant are 3 of the larger lockblade models that seem to have a strange configuration.
For the close up - I've cut and pasted 2 of the models to bring them next to the third and left the Soldier for comparison (otherwise the images are UNdoctored):
In these images the Picknicker (5904), Adventurer (5905) and the Rucksack (5900) all have the Combo tool at the front of the handle - yet at the other end of the handle is the standard Bottle opener with large screwdriver & wire stripper tool.
The normal/usual configuration is to have the standard Can opener with small screwdriver tool as shown on the Soldier.
I call this an anomoly because the Combo tool has the functions of:
Bottle opener with can opener, wire stripper and large screwdriver -
which would have made the standard Bottle opener with large screwdriver & wire stripper tool totally superfluous -
as the Combo would cover all those functions and add a can-opener.
All three of these same named models are current and show the standard small screwdriver/can-opener tool instead of the Combo tool - but they do carry different US model #'s:
Picknicker (53652)
Adventurer (53601)
Rucksack (53661)
So the question is:
Are those drawings WRONG?
had someone mistakenly drawn in the combo tool instead of the standard small screwdriver/can-opener in that catalog?
Or were there really those models that had the combo tool as well as the standard Bottle opener with large screwdriver & wire stripper tool? If so, does anyone have one?
toward the top righthand quadrant are 3 of the larger lockblade models that seem to have a strange configuration.
For the close up - I've cut and pasted 2 of the models to bring them next to the third and left the Soldier for comparison (otherwise the images are UNdoctored):
In these images the Picknicker (5904), Adventurer (5905) and the Rucksack (5900) all have the Combo tool at the front of the handle - yet at the other end of the handle is the standard Bottle opener with large screwdriver & wire stripper tool.
The normal/usual configuration is to have the standard Can opener with small screwdriver tool as shown on the Soldier.
I call this an anomoly because the Combo tool has the functions of:
Bottle opener with can opener, wire stripper and large screwdriver -
which would have made the standard Bottle opener with large screwdriver & wire stripper tool totally superfluous -
as the Combo would cover all those functions and add a can-opener.
All three of these same named models are current and show the standard small screwdriver/can-opener tool instead of the Combo tool - but they do carry different US model #'s:
Picknicker (53652)
Adventurer (53601)
Rucksack (53661)
So the question is:
Are those drawings WRONG?
had someone mistakenly drawn in the combo tool instead of the standard small screwdriver/can-opener in that catalog?
Or were there really those models that had the combo tool as well as the standard Bottle opener with large screwdriver & wire stripper tool? If so, does anyone have one?
I have certainly never seen that tool configuration. Like you said, it doesn't seem logical to put a combo tool in place of the regular can opener/small screwdriver. I would guess that maybe they had a non-Victorinox company draw the catalog with only descriptions of the knives, no access to the real knives. I guess for a non VIC knife nut, the description of combo tool (can opener, screwdriver and bottle opener) might be confused with the regular can opener/screw driver.
Thanks APS for your response.
Yes, the drawings being wrong seems to be the more logial explanation.
However SAK collectors are notorious for paying attention to details - so the fact that Forschner the official US importers had these illustrated in their catalog - wouldn't anyone who bought those models at that time notice the difference and point this discreprency/anomoly out?
and wouldn't Forschners quickly correct the catalog or at least overprint or attach a note to the catalog noting the errors?
Does anyone have or remember this catalog with corrections?
or still on the remote possibilty - anyone with the knives with that strange configuration?
APS - does your book have a date for the introduction of the larger lockblade SAK models, please?
Thanks,
Vincent,
Nope, there isn't a mention on the timeline, nor a date given in the text, for the large locking SAKs. Since your book probably goes up to 1984, here is what is in my book:
1983 patented mini-screwdreiver, fitting onto corkscrew
1985 ballpoint pen, fine screwdriver, chisel
1986 pliers with wirecutters
1987 camoflage handles
1990 swiss watch in handle
1991 multipurpose hook and pin
1992 golfer blade
1994 nylon mat handles (guessing this is the "Economy" models sold here during the 90's. My Economy Tinker has nylon mat handles.)
1995 wire crimping tool in pliers
1999 wrench and case with 10 screwdrivers (maybe for the swisstool?)
2000 precision thermo and altimeter
While flipping through I found this also and thought it was good info:
The blades have a hardness of RC 56. The wood saw, scissors and nail files have a hardness of RC53. The screwdrivers, tin openers and awls RC52 and the corkscrew and springs RC49.
"The spring exerts a pressure of 26.5lb on the large blade and 17.6lb on the small blade. These combine to exert 44lb of pressure on the corkscrew. With two springs and six pressure locations a total of 154lb pressure is achieved. In the case of the SwissChamp mode, with 8 springs and 24 pressure points, a total of 600lb is achieved."
Nope, there isn't a mention on the timeline, nor a date given in the text, for the large locking SAKs. Since your book probably goes up to 1984, here is what is in my book:
1983 patented mini-screwdreiver, fitting onto corkscrew
1985 ballpoint pen, fine screwdriver, chisel
1986 pliers with wirecutters
1987 camoflage handles
1990 swiss watch in handle
1991 multipurpose hook and pin
1992 golfer blade
1994 nylon mat handles (guessing this is the "Economy" models sold here during the 90's. My Economy Tinker has nylon mat handles.)
1995 wire crimping tool in pliers
1999 wrench and case with 10 screwdrivers (maybe for the swisstool?)
2000 precision thermo and altimeter
While flipping through I found this also and thought it was good info:
The blades have a hardness of RC 56. The wood saw, scissors and nail files have a hardness of RC53. The screwdrivers, tin openers and awls RC52 and the corkscrew and springs RC49.
"The spring exerts a pressure of 26.5lb on the large blade and 17.6lb on the small blade. These combine to exert 44lb of pressure on the corkscrew. With two springs and six pressure locations a total of 154lb pressure is achieved. In the case of the SwissChamp mode, with 8 springs and 24 pressure points, a total of 600lb is achieved."
WoW! thanks APS - that is great information -
you may have seen I've already used the timeline information for my post in the Knife Catalogs thread (linked) to date the Ecomony textured nylon handle line of Vic SAKs.
As for the steel hardness this is just what I was looking for - Victorinox were reticent about giving me any information when I asked back in 1993.
However since then they have actually put this up on their web site in their FAQ (which is under Service)
http://www.victorinox.ch/newsite/en/service/index.htm
QUOTE:
What steel is used for Victorinox knives?
All Victorinox knives are high carbon, stainless, first grade, A-quality steel. They are tempered to a 55-56 HRC hardness for optimum edge retention.
UNQUOTE
Thanks!
Originally posted by UnknownVT
instruction on the use of the Combo tool:
This is the second can that I opened about 1/3 with the Combo tool, 1/3 with the standard Can-opener tool and the last 1/3 with a regular turn-the-handle kitchen can-opener.
Image displays about actual size on my screen - can is about 85mm (3 5/16") diameter.
Combo tool from about 12 to 4 o'clock; Standard Can-opener tool from 12 to about 8 o'clock; kitchen opener from 4 to 8 o'clock (ie: combo end to standard tool end)
My conclusions are the same from both cans even though they were slightly different - the image is of a tuna can so it is a squatter can than the pork & beans can I tried before.
However I found that despite being unsharpened the initial punch/cut by the combo tool may actually be a bit easier - definitely on the beans can - marginal on the tuna can.
I think this may be because the corner seems to have better leverage mechanical advantage in making the first punch/cut.
One can (
) see that the Combo tool cuts a wider gap than the standard can-opener tool which in turn is wider than the kitchen opener.For whatever reason - perhaps because the can is short I found it hard to find purchase with the hook under the rim of the can with the standard can-opener tool on this can - one can just see the ragged paper label protruding at about 9 to 10 o'clock in the image. I don't know why this is so - as I had no trouble some days ago on the bean can.
As one can see also that the standard can-opener tool 's cut did not meet up with the kitchen opener - whereas the combo tool's did.
Again this did not happen on the previous bean can - and may well been the difficulty I was experiencing with the standard can-opener tool tonight.
Having said all that - both work about as well as each other and will open cans readily - it's just that I would not choose either over a kitchen opener -
so, for me, the argument about which is better is kind of moot.
--
Vincent
http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
I have opened many cans in my lifetime and used many different openers, from p-38 knock-offs to a large table mounted model (4 years working in a cafeteria while in college), never used an electric one though.
My favorite would have to be the full size swing-away I, have one at home and I´ve heard it´s been on space flights, it cuts cleanly and easily.
I still open several cans a week, very often with a SAK, I´ve used at least 5 different versions of SAK can openers, this would be
- The standard Victorinox with small driver tip.
- The standard Wenger, similar to most modern boy scout knives.
- The Victorinox combo.
- The Wenger combo.
- The old Wenger type that cut the can lid upwards, you would "stab" the tip into the lid from above, rest the base of the tool on the side of the can and lever pushing the handle down as the cutter worked down-up, staying inside the can. This is not the same as the even older styles that would cut as you pulled up on the handle, I´ve never used those.
My favorite SAK can opener would be the standard Vic type, specially in the soldier model which seems to be a bit larger (actually the one I use is in a Wenger soldier). I can cut faster and get a cleaner cut with this type.
I´ve also used can openers in boy scout knives and multitools, none as good as those on SAKs.
My favorite would have to be the full size swing-away I, have one at home and I´ve heard it´s been on space flights, it cuts cleanly and easily.
I still open several cans a week, very often with a SAK, I´ve used at least 5 different versions of SAK can openers, this would be
- The standard Victorinox with small driver tip.
- The standard Wenger, similar to most modern boy scout knives.
- The Victorinox combo.
- The Wenger combo.
- The old Wenger type that cut the can lid upwards, you would "stab" the tip into the lid from above, rest the base of the tool on the side of the can and lever pushing the handle down as the cutter worked down-up, staying inside the can. This is not the same as the even older styles that would cut as you pulled up on the handle, I´ve never used those.
My favorite SAK can opener would be the standard Vic type, specially in the soldier model which seems to be a bit larger (actually the one I use is in a Wenger soldier). I can cut faster and get a cleaner cut with this type.
I´ve also used can openers in boy scout knives and multitools, none as good as those on SAKs.
One time, I was curious and wanted to find out which of the SAK/multitool can openers I liked best, and used each to open a week or so worth of cans in the kitchen. Then I used each of them side by side on a bunch of coffee cans I was throwing out.
After all of this, I found I liked the beak type can openers as found on the Wenger SAKs, the Leatherman tools and the Camillus scout camp knife the best. The Wenger actually did the best by a very small margin, since it left the cleanest edges on the cans.
The Wenger also required a very light touch or it would jam so preference will depend a lot on how you use the openers and what you are accustomed to.
The Vic openers worked fairly well although they require you to cut towards the tip rather than away as with the beaked openers. The Vic dose have the advantage of the small screw driver tip, which is probably more important to many than any small difference in can opener function.
The Gerber has a opener like the Vic but it is a tad smaller and didnt work that well for me.
The Vic combo tool was the slowest and most awkward for me but it still got the job done. Actually I wish Victorinox would offer more knives with the combo tool and a second small blade like they do with the gutting blade on the Hunter Model.
- Frank
After all of this, I found I liked the beak type can openers as found on the Wenger SAKs, the Leatherman tools and the Camillus scout camp knife the best. The Wenger actually did the best by a very small margin, since it left the cleanest edges on the cans.
The Wenger also required a very light touch or it would jam so preference will depend a lot on how you use the openers and what you are accustomed to.
The Vic openers worked fairly well although they require you to cut towards the tip rather than away as with the beaked openers. The Vic dose have the advantage of the small screw driver tip, which is probably more important to many than any small difference in can opener function.
The Gerber has a opener like the Vic but it is a tad smaller and didnt work that well for me.
The Vic combo tool was the slowest and most awkward for me but it still got the job done. Actually I wish Victorinox would offer more knives with the combo tool and a second small blade like they do with the gutting blade on the Hunter Model.
- Frank
Thanks guys.
3 different people, and three different choices -
probably goes to show there's probably little difference between the openers, and probably down to personal preference.
Just to be sure I am not casting any aspersions - I did the 1/3 can opening thing again tonight - on a baked bean can -
and tonight the standard Vic can-opener was easier on the initial punch/cut.
Also because of the difficulty I had last night - I made more effort to try to keep the can-opener blade cutting closer to the rim - again the two SAK opners (Combo and standard) were comparable - with may be the slight edge going to the standard opener tonight.
The two tools obviously have not changed - so the real variable was me - so it shows that slight inconsistencies can make the difference.
If that's the case then - for me - and I emphasize that -
I'd be happy with either to open cans, if a regular kitchen opener were not available.
If a regular kitchen opener were available, I would not use either of the SAK tools - and you all know what a SAKnut I am