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My experience with Ann_Dem

I have no doubt its possible but I've never heard of an instance where someone could access the internet, access the BF forum and yet not have access to yahoo. Generally, any type of workplace filter would filter a knife website long before censoring a search engine and mail server such as yahoo.

I'm not saying it is not possible, just that it seems...strange. Looking forward to seeing those emails.
 
Roughedges,
I assure you, I have access to MUCH of the internet, but not internet mail from this location. For example, I can access Bladeforums but NOT Knife Network. Very selective (and sophisticated, but annoying) firewall.

There were numerous problems with viruses through internet mail specifically so the powers that be blocked access.

I will post the emails when I get home this evening. Sorry for the delay but out of my control.

Peter
 
Correction...Actually, I DO have access to Yahoo...but NOT Yahoo mail, or Hotmail, or AOL mail but I can get to the home pages.
 
Now that makes more sense to me. I know a guy who works for NASA and he recently forwarded me a message regarding some .doc virii. Apparently, the major source of the virus was private email accounts.
 
Each time a virus occurred, it affected as many as thousands of PC's. Caused Platform support many hours of recovery time.

A while back access was given back but then in a short time MORE VIRUSES!

Then we lost access to Internet mail permanently.
 
On 12/13/06, peter e <peterxx46@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
I had asked if the knife was still available
shipped including PayPal fees for $185. I think you
said the knife was unused? Is it mint and no cracks
in the pearl?

If so, let me know your PayPal ID and i'll send
payment. That will also get you my shipping
information.

Thanks,
Peter

Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:44:43 +0200
From: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
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To: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Pearl Damascus
Hey Peter

It's mint condition , I never used or carried it

My paypal addy is linklistsystems@yahoo.de

Please let me know your shipping address , thanks!


Wed, 13 Dec 2006 02:38:28 -0800
Subject: Your Payment Has Been Sent
To: "Peter Elovich" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
From: "service@paypal.com" <service@paypal.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
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Dear Peter Elovich,


Your payment for $185.00 USD to linklistsystems@yahoo.de has been sent.





-----------------------------------
Payment Details
-----------------------------------


Amount: $185.00 USD

Transaction ID: 1WK539456H116651U

Note:
Boker Damascus knife shipping included in price


When I noticed the payment was International I wrote to Ann:

On 12/14/06, peterinct @ BladeForums.com: The
Leading Edge of Knife
Discussion <peterxx46@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is the message:

Ann,
Please let me know when the knife was shipped and by what
carrier. If you have a tracking # that would be great.

Your Location shows IL, but when I sent PayPal it
showed a payment to
Martin Gegenfurtner as an International payment.

Thant concerns me. Please provide an explanation
upon receipt of this
email.

Thanks,
Peter

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:59:23 +0200
From: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
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To: "peterinct @ BladeForums.com: The Leading Edge of Knife Discussion" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
Hi there Peter

I'll provide you with tracking number in next 12 hours

The paypal address is fully correct as well

Thank you

On 12/15/06, peter e <peterxx46@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I was concerned that some
kind
of scam was taking place. I do feel somewhat
deceived
by your bladeforum location indicating "IL".

To be honest with you, I prefer not to have
international transactions and had I known you
were
not within the US would not have purchased the
knife.
Sorry but there are too many problems and I prefer
to
avoid the risk.

Peter

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:02:08 +0200
From: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
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To: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
Hey Peter

I do understand your worries , however , I'm honest person and don't have any intensions to scam

You can read feedback about me here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421038)

I shipped and still shipping many expencive folders,
your new folder will be in your hands in matter of 4 days.

Anyhow , it's late time , I have to go sleep
I'll send the knife out on morning and will email you the tracking number.

Thank you !

Best Regards , Ann



Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 04:52:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
To: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com>

Thanks Ann. I did see several compliments about you
on the forums which is why I bought the Boker knife
from you.

I did not notice that you were not located in the US
or that the PayPal address was not in your name.

Lately there have been all sorts or thieves trying to
scam people and I was worried that somehow my payment
did not get to the right person.

Looking forward to getting the Boker knife.

Peter






Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 19:59:56 +0200
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To: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
Hi there Peter !

Peter , I didn't got a chance to ship a knife this morning , as I was carrying about kid.

It's weekend here , short day today .

I'll ship the knife on sunday morning , (Sunday is first working day of week in Israel )
and will provide you with tracking number in same time.

To make it more exact , you should expect email in 36 hours.

I'll include a benchmade nylon sheath for your Boker knife , I trully sorry for this delay.

Wish you a great weekend as well , I'll keep you updated as I mentioned in this email.

Best Regards , Ann.

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:38:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
To: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com>

Ann,
Hopefully this delay is not a sign of what this
transaction holds in store. I am a person that does
what I say without exception and expect that of
others.

As I said, had I known you were located in Israel I
would not have initiated this purchase.

Is "IL" the abbreviation for Israel? I interpreted
that as Illinois, USA.

I am hoping my concerns are unfounded.

What shipper will be delivering the knife?

Thanks,
Peter




Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:05:57 +0200
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To: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
Hi Peter

IL is abbreviation for Israel indeed.

It's will be shipped tomorrow by EMS.

I'm already told you , I don't play any games , and tell you as it is.

Since the knife is not shipped yet , I can refund your paypal if you don't feel
that comfortable with this purschase.

Just let me know , thanks.



Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 19:21:39 +0200
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To: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
Hi there Peter

First of all , I'm sorry for all this misunderstanding.

I'm well trusted person who selling his collection , and today I just completed another high dollar value deal (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421038 )

The Paypal person is friend of our family , as we couldn't subscribe to Paypal account.

Please allow me exactly 14 hours from now to provide you with tracking number , there will be no delays.

I'm sorry :(

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:45:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
To: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com>

Ann,
"I'm already told you , I don't play any games ,
and tell you as it is."

Those are your words but from my perspective I see it
this way:

First, all I know is your name is Ann yet when I make
a paypal payment it goes to a man in Israel. I ask
for an explanation but you did not provide one?

Then you told me I will have the knife in 4 days.

You said I would have a tracking number in 12
hours....still waiting after 48?

Next you tell me you didn't ship it but it will be
shipped tomorrow. That was two days ago.

Now you tell me it will ship tomorrow once again.

That certainly doesn't seen honest and telling it like
it is to me.

I do want the knife but I am not tolerant of excuses
and delays. I did not say the knife needed to be
shipped immediately. IF you had said the knife will
be shipped in 3 days that would have been fine. I am
only expecting for you to do what YOU stated you
would.

Suppose I told you I would pay on the 13th and it is
now the 16th and I hadn't paid you? What would you
think of me? You are a total stranger. All I have to
base my opinion on is your actions based on your
words. Words are just that... words!

Upon receipt of this email please provide a tracking
number or return my payment

Thanks,
Peter



Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:39:20 +0200
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To: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
Hi there Peter

It's known fact mentioned many times on BladeFoums I'm from Israel

Like here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422035&page=2&highlight=israel)

or here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=419956&page=2&highlight=israel)

I'm not trying to confuse anyone.

Anyhow , you still didn't provided me with your shipping address which I asked 2 days ago....

Please provide me with the shipping address the the knife will be sent less then in 12 hours.
Thank you

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:34:13 -0800 (PST)
From: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
To: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com>

Ann,
I thought I was clear in my request:

"Upon receipt of this email please provide a
tracking number or return my payment"

Your reply:

"Please allow me exactly 14 hours from now to provide
you with tracking number , there will be no delays."

That IS A DELAY!!!

If you are honest as you claim, I expect to see your
location changed from "IL" to "Israel" in Bladeforums.

If I don't see that I will know you deliberatly
specified "IL" so others will think you are in
Illinois, USA, just as I made that mistake.

Thanks,
Peter

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:37:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
To: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com>

Ann,
As I said from the time I paid you, my shipping
information is provided with the PayPal payment. You
have it available within that statement informing
payment was made. That was 3 days ago!!

Everything about dealing with you in MY experience is
not as it appears and evasive. I did not research
every bit of information about you or I would NEVER
have entered into this saga! If you are honest CHANGE
YOUR LOCATION to "Israel".

The transaction you cited with Gary Graley took place
in August!!! It is now December.

So far not one thing you have said you were going to
do has been done!

You said the payment went to the "right place". If so
you have my shipping address.

If you don't send my $185 dollars to
peterxx46@yahoo.com.

End of story...I am done!

Peter



Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:55:28 -0800 (PST)
From: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
To: "Deridah" <deridah@gmail.com>

Ann/Martin or whoever you are,

Once again you have not provided the tracking number
you have committed to providing numerous times for
over 4 days now.

I could NOT be more unhappy with this transaction.

I paid you promptly in good faith and you have done
nothing but make promises you haven't kept and provide
one excuse after another.

I am at THE END OF MY PATIENCE.

It is now 12/17 18:48 Eastern Time.

I will wait 24 hours for the return of my $185 to
peterxx46@yahoo.com in PayPal.

If my money is not returned I will take the actions I
feel are necessary by contacting my Credit Card
company to reverse the payment and will expose you for
the less than honest person you have proved to be in
Baldeforums.

I am sorry it has come to this. But I have trusted you
numerous times to fullfill the obligation YOU MADE
regarding shipment of the Boker knife. Each time all
I got was another lie and promise which you then DID
NOT KEEP.

The last email you sent requested 14 hours and it has
been over 24 and you have not even had the decency to
contact me!

Peter


Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:32:47 +0200
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To: "peter e" <peterxx46@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boker Damascus knife
You knife was alreadyy shipped

I'm not 24/7 near my monitor , I have a real life also.

are you threating me Peter ? You calling me a liar ?

You know what , I would like it to be posted on Bladeforum , let's see if you can ACT and you are not just full of words.

POST IT I beg you.

Mr.President who didnt provided me with shipping address waited over 4 days , CRY ME A RIVER

you will be refunded in 24 hours

I sure don't want to hear from you EVER again.
 
peterinct: all I see in that email exchange is you acting like a complete asshat. She said she would send the knife on monday morning, and you just continued to hound her and make accusations. Monday is the 18th, but you are demanding a refund sunday night. and acting like a dickhead all weekend long. . .
 
I don't know, but I wouldn't be happy with a seller saying one thing and not doing it. The buyer might be somewhat anal about the issue with his numerous emails, but the seller could've simply done what she said she was going to do to ease his worries. And from what I read, the seller either wasn't understanding the question or wasn't reading the buyer's full messages. Afterall, his first email did provide the shipping information the seller kept on saying never came. The way I see it is the buyer's part of the deal is to make the payment promptly and give his/her mailing address. From what I see, the buyer did his part, even if he was over the top a bit.
 
It wasn't like there was a long delay, and the seller contacted the buyer saying that they missed the shipping date, and provided a new date. Shit happens, and the buyer overreacted.
 
No, it wasn't a long delay, and yes, shit happens. Still, why would the seller accuse the buyer of not sending his address when he did? And I don't see anything wrong with expecting someone to do what they said. No worries if it takes a few days, but just say that in the first place. It was like the two weren't even having the same conversation with each other at times. Probably just miscommunications that only got worse by the fact the buyer felt like things weren't kosher:)D ) in the first place. Live and learn.
 
Not including the PayPal e-mail notification, there are 17 e-mails above. Nine are Peter to Ann and eight are Ann to Peter. Except for several towards the end of the chain on the 16th, they are both responding to each others e-mails.

Looking at both sides of the communication process above, it's easy to see why / where Peter became concerned. In fact, he addressed those issues on four occasions. Ann didn't ease Peter's tensions early in the process and finally responds to Peter's concerns on the 16th (@ 12:05:57 and @ 19:21:39). It's not until late into the transaction, the 16th @ 22:39:20, that Ann states that she doesn't have his address. Prior to that, she has notified Peter that all is good on shipping the knife. No once, but twice. She was supposed to ship the knife on Friday (see her e-mail on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:59:23) and then again on Saturday (see her e-mail on Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:02:08), which didn't happen.

On Saturday (see the 16 Dec 2006 08:45:51 e-mail), Peter tends to melt down and of course. . . .the transaction goes to hell. . . . .quick ! First, while "IL" can be confusing, nobody has the right to "demand" that anyone change "anything" about their personal info here. Second, if you (Peter) were so concerned about an "international transaction" you (Peter) should have picked up on that as you were processing your PayPal payment. For example, the person receiving the payment is a "yahoo.de" e-mail addy, which indicates "Germany," and his name definitely doesn't match Ann's. Third, finding out that Ann is in Israel, based on your previous statements that you do not do international transactions, you should have terminated the transaction immediately and walked away.

I haven't dealt with Peter or Ann before. The chances of both being standup people - - - - very likely. Easy to see how a transaction can go to ka-ka due to a lack of communication or errors in communication ~ on both sides of the fence.
 
As a disinterested third party I really can't find fault with the seller's performance here. "IL" is in fact the internationally recognized abbreviation for Israel. The buyer assumed it to be the US state of Illinois which shares the same abbreviation. Had the buyer done a quick search on this forum he would have learned that Ann is from Israel. He could also have simply asked, "where are you located?" prior to sending the funds. Also, why the stubborn refusal to provide the shipping address after being asked for it several times? I agree it should have been included with the PayPal payment details but maybe it was overlooked by Ann or it was omitted by PayPal for some reason.
 
I have no doubt its possible but I've never heard of an instance where someone could access the internet, access the BF forum and yet not have access to yahoo. Generally, any type of workplace filter would filter a knife website long before censoring a search engine and mail server such as yahoo.

I'm not saying it is not possible, just that it seems...strange. Looking forward to seeing those emails.

It is true, I work for the state of Pennsylvania and our network will allow me onto Bladeforums and other knife related sites but I cannot access any email sites, totally backwards if you ask me.
 
Had the buyer done a quick search on this forum he would have learned that Ann is from Israel.

:rolleyes:

She has 399 posts. Quick search ? I think not. Of course, different story if one does a specific search using her name and Israel. I think that it's clear in Peter's posts that he thought that she was in the US.

I highly doubt that people will exert that much energy searching the forums in an attempt to discover where a seller is from.

I'll put it to you this way. . . . .I have a little more than 10,000 posts. Do a search to see where I'm originally from.



He could also have simply asked, "where are you located?" prior to sending the funds.


He made that perfectly clear. He thought that she was from Illinois, but the PayPal e-mail receipt payment to showed that it was an "international payment."



Also, why the stubborn refusal to provide the shipping address after being asked for it several times?


There are two occasions where she mentions that she doesn't have his address (Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:39:20 and Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:32:47). Of course, the transaction had pretty much shit the bed before then.

One would think that if a buyer is going to ship on the previous Thurs (14th) and then Fri (15th) and then Saturday (16th). . . .there would be requests, in her e-mails, that she needed his shipping information.
 
Peter , why didn't you posted ALL the emails then ?

You sent about 8 ~ 10 emails per day. on which I answered all.
u forgot about separate emails ? like this one ? or others ?

This is the message:

I have not heard anything from you for over 2 days now after you have repeatedly stated you were going to provide a tracking number for the Boker Damascus knife which I paid you for on 12/13.

For 4 days you stated several times I would have a tracking number. You stated my PayPal payment went to the correct place. That would have contained my shipping information.

Then after repeatedly saying the knife will be shipped and stating within 12, hours, then 36 hours, then 14 hours, you claim you need my shipping address?

I made my position very clear and since you hadn't shipped the knife and offered to return my payment, I requested my payment be sent back in PayPal.

Now I have not heard from you in over 2 days. I prefer NOT to document this experience in a public forum but you leave me no choice!

This is the second time I am asking you to please return my $185 to peterxx46@yahoo.com in PayPal. At this point I do not want the knife and prefer to have no more dealing with you.

Peter


well , I'm not getting in to flames , but at least , when you POST LOGS post all , no selective ones !

anyhow I'm out of this thread , it's beauty shining morning and I don't plan to ruin it.

have a good day folks :)
 
Ann,
I don't know why you continue to tell lies? I did not post that email because I sent it from within Blade Forums and do not have it. If there is a way to locate messages sent from here I am unaware of it.

You claim I sent 8 - 10 emails per day. THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!

Based on the opinions expressed in this thread I overreacted and let my suspicions get in the way of better judgement. I regret spending my time creating this thread and apologize to those that wasted their time reading it.

Should a moderator deem it appropriate to remove it, that would be fine with me.

As to you Ann, YOUR reactions and subsequent LIES affirm my feeling that you are not the honest person you claim to be. I have completed hundreds of transactions using PayPal and NEVER had anyone need to ask for my address.

You confirmed my PayPal payment went to the correct place from the beginning, and if so, you HAD my address.

Lastly, you claim I sent over 30 to 40 emails...POST THEM...you can't because they don't exist!

Once again, I am sorry to anyone wasting their time reading these flames. I AM an honest person and have nothing to hide about this ordeal.

Peter
 
peterinct: all I see in that email exchange is you acting like a complete asshat. She said she would send the knife on monday morning, and you just continued to hound her and make accusations. Monday is the 18th, but you are demanding a refund sunday night. and acting like a dickhead all weekend long. . .

Thanks Rat Finkenstein , that's exactly how I felt but couldn't post this myself.... ;)
 
I don't know, but I wouldn't be happy with a seller saying one thing and not doing it. The buyer might be somewhat anal about the issue with his numerous emails, but the seller could've simply done what she said she was going to do to ease his worries. And from what I read, the seller either wasn't understanding the question or wasn't reading the buyer's full messages. Afterall, his first email did provide the shipping information the seller kept on saying never came. The way I see it is the buyer's part of the deal is to make the payment promptly and give his/her mailing address. From what I see, the buyer did his part, even if he was over the top a bit.

True that. But I don't have the access to paypal descriptions (where the shipping info was writted) and I didn't knew that until the last moment, so if it's wouldn't be a busy morning while I carried about kid , I couldn't ship it anyhow , as I'm clearly asked in emails for shipping address , and didn't got ANY responce. I appoligized , said I'll ship right after the weekend (it's was short weekend beggining day when I was suppose to ship)

So basically , if it's wasn't okey for him , he could ask for refund in same minute , but I do assume he didn't wanted to loose the deal until the last moment heh.
 
Not including the PayPal e-mail notification, there are 17 e-mails above. Nine are Peter to Ann and eight are Ann to Peter. Except for several towards the end of the chain on the 16th, they are both responding to each others e-mails.

Looking at both sides of the communication process above, it's easy to see why / where Peter became concerned. In fact, he addressed those issues on four occasions. Ann didn't ease Peter's tensions early in the process and finally responds to Peter's concerns on the 16th (@ 12:05:57 and @ 19:21:39). It's not until late into the transaction, the 16th @ 22:39:20, that Ann states that she doesn't have his address. Prior to that, she has notified Peter that all is good on shipping the knife. No once, but twice. She was supposed to ship the knife on Friday (see her e-mail on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:59:23) and then again on Saturday (see her e-mail on Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:02:08), which didn't happen.

On Saturday (see the 16 Dec 2006 08:45:51 e-mail), Peter tends to melt down and of course. . . .the transaction goes to hell. . . . .quick ! First, while "IL" can be confusing, nobody has the right to "demand" that anyone change "anything" about their personal info here. Second, if you (Peter) were so concerned about an "international transaction" you (Peter) should have picked up on that as you were processing your PayPal payment. For example, the person receiving the payment is a "yahoo.de" e-mail addy, which indicates "Germany," and his name definitely doesn't match Ann's. Third, finding out that Ann is in Israel, based on your previous statements that you do not do international transactions, you should have terminated the transaction immediately and walked away.

I haven't dealt with Peter or Ann before. The chances of both being standup people - - - - very likely. Easy to see how a transaction can go to ka-ka due to a lack of communication or errors in communication ~ on both sides of the fence.

I emailed Peter 2! threads where I'm explained myself I was from ISRAEL

so there is shouldn't be any confuse ?!

also I did provided Peter with my feedback thread , to illiminate any worries of him being scammed like he mentioned multiply times.

instead of that , Peter requested that I'll change info in my own profile , and not in polite manner as you see.
 
As a disinterested third party I really can't find fault with the seller's performance here. "IL" is in fact the internationally recognized abbreviation for Israel. The buyer assumed it to be the US state of Illinois which shares the same abbreviation. Had the buyer done a quick search on this forum he would have learned that Ann is from Israel. He could also have simply asked, "where are you located?" prior to sending the funds. Also, why the stubborn refusal to provide the shipping address after being asked for it several times? I agree it should have been included with the PayPal payment details but maybe it was overlooked by Ann or it was omitted by PayPal for some reason.

yep , you are right.

I even explained him multiply times im from ISRAEL , and sent 2 ! threads where I explained myself on bladeforums , im from Israel

but as you see , it's much easier to claim , it's someone else problem then your own.... ;)

as for paypal account, i can't see description as I'm using friends account , and Peter knew that , I notified him about it , when he asked why paypal payment went to a person named Martin.

I guess Peter just running out of excuses now , and want to assure everyone , I'm not "the honest as I claim to be here" , suggesting me to buy an English dictionary hehe.

p.s Peter , I know 5 languages , and English is far away from my native one , and what about you ?
 
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