My first knife "order"

tryppyr

tryppyr

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
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Hey guys. Long time no see.

Last night I was attending a house warming party and the host made a request of me. He said he really wanted a custom 8 inch chef's knife and wanted me to make one for him. He even offered to pay. "Yeah right!" I thought. But then it occurred to me ... a handmade knife would make a nice housewarming gift.

Suffice it to say my skills have not advanced since the last WIP I posted, so this is a dubious prospect at the outset. But I would like to make the knife, and let him decide whether it's worth using or just becomes a wall-hanger. In either case I want to give him my best effort.

So first things first... I have four types of steel at my disposal, and I need to pick the one most suitable for a chef's knife. I have CPM S35VN, 52100, 1095 and 1084. Bear in mind, I still don't do my own heat treat, so the level of professionalism in that regard will be the standards of Peter's Heat Treating. With that in mind, which is the most suitable? I'm leaning toward the stainless. It's by far the thinnest piece I have.

I understand he's left handed (and will confirm with him before I start). So obviously I want to make it with left handed use in mind.

Any handle materials I ought to avoid for a chef's knife? Is there a particular place that makes the best center of gravity for kitchen use?

I'm going to troll around and get some images and see what style he prefers, too.

Any and all input here is very welcome. I'll try not to let this thread become a WIP. I just want some advice before I dive in.
 
Tryppyr, Glad to see you back and kicking. If I were making a kitchen knife from the steels you listed above, I would go with CPM S35VN. One reason is, not only is it a great steel, but, a lot of folks just don't like the natural patina developed when using "Carbon Steels" like 1095, 1084, etc. Just remember........ Thin for the Win.

Peters or Bos can do you right on the heat treat.

As for handle materials, stabilized wood or synthetics. Either way, you need to educate the end user on "NO DISHWASHER" etiquette.

You can do this man. Please let us see the results. Good Luck.

Robert
 
All great advice from Robert as far as I'm concerned . I want to add buy the steel thin to begin with or you may be disappointed in the amount of extra work that occurs . Then go for it !!! Frank
 
I would also consider grinding th bevels post HT, that way you are guaranteed as straight an edge as you can grind.


-X
 
fast14riot said:
I would also consider grinding th bevels post HT, that way you are guaranteed as straight an edge as you can grind.
Click to expand...

Great idea for thin steels. All you have to do is "Go-Slow" and cool often.

Talked to Paul Bos several years ago, and he said that many warping problems encountered during heat treat of (very) thin blades could be eliminated if the maker would "Post-Grind" the bevels. This is especially true on thin folders and some kitchen knives. You just have to slow down and cool often.
 
According to Peters, S35VN can be ground to a .01 edge before heat treat. I sent them 10 blades with edges between .01 and .015 (S35VN) and all came back as straight as I ground them. When I did the post-HT grinding, I dipped after every pass - worked fine - no warping.
Tim
 
Thanks, guys. I appreciate the tips. I'll definitely follow through on that advice as I only have enough steel to make two... one that has all the mistakes, and one to give to my friend. :)
 
I agree with most of the above, but...... keep in mind how hard the CPM S35VN is to finish. Doing the grinds after heat treat is fine, but the finish work to get the deep grind marks out will have you hating life. Ask Stacy (bladsmth), as I know he uses S35VN to make fillet knives and I am sure he would have extensive knowledge on how thin you can get away with before heat treating. I personally did a blade in S30V for a fillet knife and it was only between .040" to .060" thick, and it came back from Peters as straight as it went to them.
 
I think it unlikely this guy leaves dirty things laying around in the kitchen. He has always struck me as a very fastidious cook. His kitchen is always very well ordered... perhaps in part because his wife rarely cooks. ;)
 
Welcome back Greg.

I would recommend S35VN, too. Use it in .090-.100" thickness at most, with .065" not being too thin at all.
A Wa type handle in Black Micarta would be ambidextrous and sturdy. One copper rivet would take care of the attachment. Another excellent choice would be a black bolster ( African Blackwood or Micarta) and an olive wood handle. Kitchen knives don't really need or want fancy woods and materials. Wa handles are very easy to shape and install.

I have lots of S35VN in sheet stock, and would be glad to cut your blank for you if you don't have the size needed. Just email me a sketch with measurements. Also, I send batches of this steel to Peters regularly. You can ship it to me and I will add it to my batch. That way the HT will be top notch, and will only cost you the postage.

As for grinding post HT, IIRC, you don't have a VS grinder. In that case, you may want to do the basic bevels pre-HT.
 
Thanks, Stacy. The piece of steel I have now is probably in that range. It is marked (by NJ Steel Baron) "CPM S35VN, 062/070, 1 1/4 x 22", which I take to mean the raw thickness is betwee .062 - .070. I'll have a go at cutting the blanks once I know what I want to make. If I don't like the results I'll definitely take you up on the offer.

Rather than make an arbitrary decision about the handle material, I put the question to the recipient. I'm thinking he came to me with something in mind. I'll try to tease that out of him and see if it is feasible and functional. He's a pretty practical guy... already has a set of Shun knives. He said he wanted something "custom", so I'll see if he can be more specific about what that means to him.
 
tryppyr, I've done a few kitchen knives with basic equipment. What I can offer for advice is to take your time, and use a granite plate or other flat surface and check repeatedly that you are grinding flat. It goes wrong quickly with a full speed grinder. The thin steel overheats quickly so keep a bucket of water near, with fresh belts and paper. I have made these types of knives with 15N20, O1, 52100, and S35VN. They all perform well.
 
What type of grinder are you using? This might be a good WIP since the chefs knife does not get as much coverage on the forum.
 
I still have the only grinder I ever had... a GIB with a single speed 1HP motor. Most likely the grinder will be used only for basic "roughing out", after which time it will all be hand work, as is typical for me.

After looking around a bit, I think I know what the blank should look like. Here's a link to my sketch.
 
I think I lost part of your sketch. It looks good but there are 2 things to be sure of. Make sure the handle is 5" long - I don't know why that size is important but everyone I have shown mock-ups to wants a 5" handle. Second, make sure there is at least 2" clearance between the handle and the cutting board - 2 1/2" seems even better. There is nothing worse that banging your knuckles.

You can't go wrong with S35VN although if you are doing hand work, get as much done pre-HT as possible. Hand sanding S35VN at Rc60 is a bitch.

Tim
 
tim37a said:
I think I lost part of your sketch. It looks good but there are 2 things to be sure of. Make sure the handle is 5" long - I don't know why that size is important but everyone I have shown mock-ups to wants a 5" handle. Second, make sure there is at least 2" clearance between the handle and the cutting board - 2 1/2" seems even better. There is nothing worse that banging your knuckles.

You can't go wrong with S35VN although if you are doing hand work, get as much done pre-HT as possible. Hand sanding S35VN at Rc60 is a bitch.

Tim
Click to expand...

If he is a "proper chef" and uses a pinch grip, cutting board clearance should be less of an issue.
 
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