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My Hamon Process

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by RyanW, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. RyanW

    RyanW Moderator Moderator

    Jul 17, 2009
    I posted up a few photos around the intranets and had quite a few people contact me asking me how I get my Hamon's. After typing up a painfully long Email response to those that asked I thought why not share with the community (Bladeforums) that helped me get to where I am in this process.


    My process for hamon’s changes quite frequently and I am by no means an authority or expert on the process, this is just how I do it right now.
    Always wear Respirator and Safety Glasses!

    There are two steel types that I find easiest to produce a hamon with because they are Shallow Hardening Steel: 1095 and W2. They both require precise temperature control for 8-10 minutes during HT. Not "Heat up and Dunk" steel types, you have to be very careful to not over heat.

    Thermal Cycles:
    After I have the blade rough ground I Normalize it through Thermal Cycles. I thoroughly heat to 1600 F then air cool to Black, Heat to 1475 F Cool to Black, Heat to 1425 (Sub Critical) and let cool to the touch. Clean the blade up again making sure to remove all scratches to at least 220 Grit to avoid the blade cracking along the scratch lines (I think of it as a piece of scored glass). Wash the blade with dish soap thoroughly to remove any oil or dirt and dry it off.

    Clay Coat:
    Apply a thin coat of Furnace Cement (Rutlands) or Satanite on the spine with thin fingers coming down in the same place on both sides of the blade. Do not go all the way to the cutting Edge. (I will attach a photo of one of my knives with the clay on it). I also thin out the cement and use a small art paint brush to wash around the edges of the already applied clay to increase the Ashi (White stuff in the Hamon when polished up). After I have applied the clay I let it air dry for a few hours, then place in the oven at 275F for 30 minutes to dry completely.
    [​IMG]

    Heat Treat:
    I use an Evenheat Knife Oven for my HT. I have spent a lot of time working on the process and temp control of the oven (Over a Year). My oven reads about 25-30 F degrees hotter than the inside is. I set my oven to 1470 F (Actual Temp +/- 1450 F) for 60 Min. It takes about 30 minutes to get up to 1470 F. I then let 20 minutes expire on the timer to make sure the oven heat is nice and even inside.

    Oven Timer: 40Min
    I place the knife in the oven on its spine, Edge up. I made the mistake of putting it edge down for quite a while. The problem with this is, whatever the blade is resting on acts as a heat sink and pulls the heat out of the steel. This will often cause your blade edge not reach critical. Which is exactly what you want to happen to the spine not the cutting edge!

    Oven Timer: 35Min
    Take a quick Peek at the blade in the oven. Make sure the room dark enough to see Colors, I close doors and turn all but one light off. I have a magnet on a telescoping rod (Radio Antenna-ish) that I use to check for critical on the cutting Edge, don't burn yourself 1450 F burns quick and deep.

    * If it has not reached critical I Close the door and Check again every 3-4 Minutes
    * If it is non-magnetic I quickly close the door and start my 8 - 10 min. soak time.

    I used to check with the magnet on the handle because it was close to the door and easy to reach quickly, but got false readings because of thickness variations compared to the cutting edge.

    Oven Timer: 27 - 25Min
    I pull the blade with my tongs and quench in Parks 50 tip first straight up and down to avoid warpage. Moving the blade back and forth like a pendulum. To reduce the vapor Barrier/Jacket, to ensure quick temp reduction. Leave it in the quenchant until room Temperature.

    Sometimes the clay breaks off during the quench and sometimes it doesn't. Depending on when this happens in the process has an affect on your hamon.

    Check For Hamon:
    I scrape off the remaining clay and wipe off the oil. then lightly grind the blade edge with 80 Grit belt that will show the Hamon in the right light. This is my favorite part of the process because you get to see if all your work paid off.

    If your edge did not fully harden or the hamon isn't what you want.... Don't throw the blade at the wall Haha! Go back up to the Thermal Cycling step and start over!!!

    Tempering:
    If you have the Hamon you like, it is important to get your blade Tempered. Right now it is very brittle and you need to bring the Hardness down. Different steel quenched in different quenchants need to be temepered at different temperatures. Do your research and follow a reputable resource, Kevin Cashen's site is always a go to for me (Matherton Forge).

    Just as an example...
    I used W2 heated to 1450 F (Remember my oven reads High - 1470 F = 1450 F) quenched in Parks 50. The blade should come out of the Quench at approximately 65-67 HRC.

    * Temper 1x at 375 F for 1 Hr. let cool in oven (Slow Cool)
    * Temper again at 425 F for 1 hr. Cool in oven.

    This should bring your blade down to around 60-61 HRC. Great for a slicer. You can adjust your HRC for the intended purpose of your blade. Choppers should be softer (Temper at Higher Temps)

    Machine Finish:
    After you have tempered your blade to your desired hardness. I clean up the entire blade on the grinder getting it to final thickness, Be very careful not to over heat your blade in the grinding process now. You can ruin your temper and even your hamon if you are not very careful.

    I move through the different grits as follows:
    * Norton Orange Blaze (80 Grit)
    * Norton Orange Blaze (120 Grit)
    * 3M Gator Trizact (A160)
    * 3M Gator Trizact (A65)
    * 3M Gator Trizact (A45)

    Hand Finish:
    Now the fun part... Hand Sanding!!!
    I use windex as my liquid agent to help move material, I have heard of people using Simple Green, WD40, 3 in 1 Oil, Even Motor oil...

    I have a few different size pieces of thick micarta that I use as a sanding block. One side I stick something called "Felt Guard" that I got from Home Depot. It is a hard felt that people put on the bottom of their furniture legs to prevent them from scratching floors or ruining carpet.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is how I move through the sandpaper grits:
    * RhynoWet (220 Grit) Hard Side of Block (Usually takes 20-30 Minutes)
    * RhynoWet (400 Grit) Hard Side of Block (20 Minutes)
    * RhynoWet (600 Grit) Hard Side of Block (15 Minutes)
    ... This is where I Etch my makers mark on the blade and rough fit my Handle Materials

    * RhynoWet (600 Grit) Hard Side of Block. (Yes 600 again - 10 Minutes)
    * RhynoWet (800 Grit) Hard Side of Block (20 Minutes)
    * RhynoWet (800 Grit) FELT GUARD Side of Block (20 Minutes)

    Hamon ETCH:
    Now time for the Acid Etch. I use Ferric Chloride Etchant (PCB Etchant from Radio Shack) Some people use Vinegar instead of FC, I have played with vinegar quite extensively and didn't like the results I got.... To each his own!

    You will need: Ferric Chloride, Rubber Gloves, Cotton Make up Pads, Amonia in a Spray Bottle, 3 in 1 Oil, Face Mask, Safety Glasses...
    I have my etchant diluted with Water (4:1) in a tall plastic container. I get everything set up in a safe place. I take the blade inside and Wash with Dish soap in VERY HOT water. with the blade still wet I quickly dunk the blade in the FC solution, pull it out and rub the entire blade hard with the cotton Makeup Pad to make sure the FC is making contact with steel during the etch.

    * Dip Blade in FC for approx. 10 Seconds, Pull out and Rub both sides with Pad trying to remove all oxides
    * Dip again for 10 Seconds, Rub with Pad.
    * Dip for 5 Seconds, Rub with Pad
    * Dip for 2 Seconds, Rub with Pad (I start rubbing a bit harder like I am trying to remove a bad stain on the entire blade)
    * Now I do a series of Very quick dips and Rubs until I start seeing the Dark line develop along the hamon edge.
    * I get a new Make up pad and dip the pad into the etchant and rub the blade with the saturated pad until I have what I want.

    I immediately spray the entire knife with Amonia to neutralize the FC. then run out to a designated Dirt patch in the yard and wash the Blade off with the Garden Hose (Don't wash the blade off in your kitchen sink). Then Take the blade in the shop and Dry with a paper towel and apply a Very liberal coat of 3 in 1 oil all over the blade.

    Hamon Polishing:
    I leave the oil on the blade and apply "Flitz Polish". I use the Watery Green Flitz not the thick stuff in a tube. Again I use the Makeup pads to do the polishing. Sometimes I stop after the Flitz, it is a high contrast finish but does not bring out the Ashi.
    [​IMG]

    If you want some Ashi in your Hamon (Who Doesn't?) provided you have Ashi from the HT!! I purchased some 1500 Grit Silicon Carbide Powder online. I mix it with 3 in 1 oil to a thin paste. I have a Wood Sanding Block that has a piece of "Felt Guard" (Same stuff I use on the sanding block) on it. I apply the paste directly to the Felt and rub the blade with the saturated Felt. You are polishing with the 1500 Grit and Felt pad. I rub the Entire blade and tang at this stage to remove any Oxides or Color from the FC Etch.
    [​IMG]
    (I am always worried about Contaminants getting into the Pad and scratching the blade finish, I have an test blade that I always use the polishing block on before rubbing on the blade i am finishing... Knock on wood)

    The 3 blades on the right have been polished with the 1500 Silicon powder, the blade on the far left has only been Flitz'd
    [​IMG]

    Then apply another liberal coat of Oil on the entire blade!
    [​IMG]

    I am sure I have left some details out or didn’t make sense in some areas. Please feel free to ask questions or correct me where needed!



    MY PERSONAL RESOURCES:

    Kevin Cashen (Knifemaker - Matherton Forge)
    Mike Quesenberry (Knifemaker)
    Nick Wheeler (Knifemaker)
    John Doyle (Knifemaker)
    Mike Turner (Knifemaker)
    BladeForums
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
    Wyo Coyote, jeness and Coy Ranch like this.
  2. crimsonfalcon07

    crimsonfalcon07

    Dec 27, 2010
    Odd, I tried posting a thank you earlier, but it seems not to be here.

    Anyways, thanks for sharing this. It's very informative, and a good read. Do you think the furnace cement you can buy at the hardware store would work?
     
  3. Mike Davis

    Mike Davis

    Feb 7, 2006
    Very very nice Ryan! Very thorough explanation!
     
  4. mgysgthath

    mgysgthath

    Dec 15, 2009
    THank you for that, it answered a question I'd been wondering about for weeks! Which is that I read somewhere for hamons you should quench horizontally and exactly evenly.. clearly that isn't a requirement. Very nice post!

    One thing I'm wondering about is why the switch from paper to powder for grits.. could you get the same results from 1000-1500-2500 (or however far you want to take it) grit paper and continue sanding, rather than stopping at 800 and switching to the flitz/powder/paste?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
    tony santovenia likes this.
  5. HowellCutlery

    HowellCutlery

    45
    Feb 12, 2010
    Excellent write up. Thanks for sharing.
     
  6. BenR.T.

    BenR.T. Tanto grinder & High performance blade peddler Moderator

    Apr 18, 2011
    Thanks for taking the time to post this up Ryan, I appreciate it!:thumbup:
     
  7. RyanW

    RyanW Moderator Moderator

    Jul 17, 2009
    Thanks everyone for the comments!

    Again, I am no authority... But I get good results by quenching Tip first. I know there are amazing makers out there that prefer to do the Edge quench. My set up (Quench Tank) doesn't allow for that very easily so I go with what works. I have done edge quench with no clay coat in the past and gotten nice Hamon's. I think the edge quench just ensures that the Spine does not cool too fast.

    I can't find decent furnace cement at my local hardware stores... ACE has "Rutland's 600 Refractory Cement" that many, many makers use with success. I am currently using Satanite.
     
  8. Sam Salvati

    Sam Salvati

    Aug 6, 2007
    Hamins are so last week!


    Just kidding, nice write up and wow they are stunning!
     
  9. mediamst

    mediamst

    39
    Feb 24, 2012
    Very very cool. Awesome looking blades. Thanks
     
  10. D_Golden

    D_Golden

    23
    Sep 6, 2012
    Thank you for a great tutorial that I hope is made into a sticky.
     
  11. Don Hanson III

    Don Hanson III KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 3, 2002
    Nice write up, bro!
     
  12. DCL Knives

    DCL Knives

    781
    Jun 6, 2012
    Thanks a lot for the tutorial! Will get to do my first hamon when I get my blades back from Darrin Sanders. Will be following this tutoriel all the way :)
     
  13. GTH11

    GTH11

    626
    Feb 21, 2011
    Nice and Precise :thumbup:
     
  14. lazlo

    lazlo

    436
    Nov 23, 2006
    Thanks Ryan!

    What does the dual temperature temper buy you?
     
  15. Robert Dark

    Robert Dark

    Aug 27, 2004
    Sounds like you have everything just about "dialed in". Thanks for posting this. Good info based on lots of research and trial-and-error. Might just save some folks a lot of mistakes.

    Ya done good.

    Robert
     
  16. Grayzer86

    Grayzer86

    Jan 15, 2012
    Awesome post Ryan. Excellent info here, and great step by step process. I really want to be able to produce hamons like this, (or even any decent ones at all). I have several issues so far though, one is that i dont have a kiln or any way to control my heat precisely enough for these steels. I also am curious if paper in a 1500 or so grit would produce acceptable results compared to the powder. My next question may be ridiculous but do you think anyone who can produce good hamons on blades be interested in heat treating some that way for a fee? Also are hamons remotely possible on a blade made from 1084?
     
  17. RyanW

    RyanW Moderator Moderator

    Jul 17, 2009
    Wow, I really appreciate all the comments. I change my process on an almost daily basis and have tired more things that I care to mention on the Polishing side of the process. It has bee a trial and error process and Many Phone calls, Emails and late night reading here on the forums. Having said that, proper HT is more important than a great Hamon.

    I will try to answer any questions I can.

    Lazlo - I do the lower end temper first because it is really hard when you realize you went further than you wanted to in your Post Temper testing (Which I didn't go into here). I can always add more temp. but can't go the other way.

    mgysgthath & Grayzer - I have used high grit sandpaper (1500 - 2000 Grit) in the past and have had hit and miss results. I think the reason powder works better for me is it is not as rigid, the powder is free to move around and not as abrasive as the Paper would be. In my mind I see the paper scratching the steel, and the powder rolling on the steel?

    As far as getting a Hamon in 1084? Yep people do it, I have done it. They are not nearly as active, and are usually a line more than a wave. A few come to mind that have done amazing work with 1084 (John Doyle, Raymond Richard to name a few). As I understand it, use thicker clay layer and bring the clay closer to the edge. Someone else will have to chyme in on this one.

    I don't want to confuse people with this post - this is not the type of Hamon you get in a Hanson, Wheeler, Quesenberry... My list is fairly long. This is a "Working" Hamon (I have been calling it a "Dirty Hamon") polished to low grits. Those guys have mastered the Delicate Hamon at a high polish, I have tried to do this many times and failed!
     
  18. AWSmith

    AWSmith

    76
    Aug 23, 2012
    Thanks for taking the time to document what you do.

    This might be a Sticky?
     
  19. quint

    quint

    Nov 29, 2011
    Thanks a bunch for the writeup Ryan. Ive got some W2 that I cant wait to try this out with just gotta get the time to break out the forge again.

    One question, when doing salt water quench with W2 if you have done this what tempering temperatures do you like or are they generally the same? Thanks.
     
  20. pap11y

    pap11y

    Jul 4, 2012
    It is very generous to give of your time and knowledge to help us all.

    Much appreciated..
     

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