My Kindergartner was unfairly suspended for a butter knife in California?

zerkom122 said:
This is total (Sorry for saying this but i feel it's appropriate to express my feelings toward this situation) BULLSH*T how stupid can people be? The child made a mistake and he didn't know what to do and he did not want to take it to school but his mom drove off unknowingly. He put in his pocket because he wanted to be like his dad which is understandable (that's what I wanted to be like when I was little just like my dad) Now when your son thanks to the Assholes at the school and district when he goes to apply for college or a job unless the lawyer can get this straightened out then there not gonna want to hire or accept him because of this. I'm sorry but this Pisses me off hopefully my generation (I'm 13) we'll learn from these people with no common sense. I wish you your son and your family good luck.
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Perhaps a good life lesson.
 
Get an attorney. There are attorneys that specialize in this sort of thing. You also may really want to go to the school board, very publicly and make them understand the horrible actions that were taken by this administrator. Calling CPS was really out of line. The threat of having CPS remove the child from your home, done in front of the child !!!!, is horrible and inexcusable. That principal needs to be fired.
 
flatgrinder said:
Just looking for a bit of advice here:

Our 6 year old kindergartner had a blunt butter knife in his pocket at school with no intention of hurting anyone, but the new Principal (who started last fall) suspended him in the most extreme way possible.

You're probably wondering why he had a butter knife in his pocket ... well, he had a box of Legos and he wanted to open it by himself. I handed him a butter knife and after he opened the box, he put it in his pocket (I didn't know he did that, but he told me later that he wanted to be like me ... I carry a small folding knife in my pocket daily). As my wife was dropping him off at school later, he remembered he had the butter knife in his pocket -but before he could say anything to her, she drove off. He didn't know what to do, but leave it in there.

I received a call from the School Secretary who informed me that my son had been suspended and was being questioned by the Principal and two Psychologists for 30 to 40 minutes already and I should get up there as soon as possible. By the time I had arrived, another 15 minutes had passed.

Upon arrival at the school, I noticed that the meeting room door was wide open. The Principal instructed the Secretary to shut the door, while I stood a few feet from the room while she continued her questioning.

I was concerned for my 6 year old child’s emotional well being –as he was alone in front of this group of adults for almost an hour. I knocked on the meeting room door and entered. My son was visibly upset.

The Principal was rude and antagonistic. Instead of calmly speaking to me, she escalated the situation. I told her I knew it was a “butter knife” and requested multiple times to see the actual knife because the whole situation seemed extremely disproportionate. She refused to show me the knife by aggressively motioning with her hands a large blade and repeatedly shouting “He had a 6 inch kitchen knife!” each time I asked to see it.

She pointed at my son and that she would have him “taken away and put in foster care immediately unless I left the room" after I kept insisting to see the knife.

She screamed to the Secretary to call 911, I guess she didn't want everyone to see that it was a butter knife -as it would make her choice of actions seem ridiculous.

She requested that I remain in her office with her while we waited for the police to arrive –just to later tell the two Sheriffs, upon arrival, “Everything is fine, you can go.” They left and no report was taken as there was no reason for one.

The Principal eventually showed me the actual knife when we were alone in her office and she had closed her door. (She gave me the actual knife right before I left with my son).

On the way out she told me she “did us a favor” as she could have expelled our Kindergartner, but was only suspending him for two days.

That evening, Child Services knocked on our door. They said that there had been a report of child abuse and they wanted to come in. We allowed them. They did a thorough search of our home, told our children to strip down (to look for bruises), checked our cabinets for food, inspected our house for smoke detectors, asked us all questions separately -we complied to the fullest extent, they deemed the accusations as untrue and they closed the case. We figured the false reporting was done by the Principal to teach us a lesson not to question her authority. (She also accused me of kicking the meeting room door in ... which was a complete lie, I have a cellphone photo of the door the following Monday as proof).

The next day, we received a suspension letter from the school (which would now be part of our son's permanent record). She claimed in her letter that our son deliberately brought a "kitchen knife" to school to "kill people" (which is completely untrue).

She requested a meeting for the following Monday and on the way to the meeting, my wife tried to see our son's Kindergarten teacher. (She wanted to apologize for the situation and brought a photo of the butter knife for her to verify that it was the actual knife). My wife didn't even get a single word in, as the other Kindergarten teacher told her to leave as she was disrupting class. She tried again after school, but our son's teacher would literally just keep her back turned and pretend not to hear her like she didn't exist.

In the meeting, the Principal requested that we sign a Psychological waiver so her Psychologists could do whatever they wanted to our son, we declined and removed both our sons from the school and put them in Private schools until the end of the semester. Our youngest son had been there for almost two years with no incident, his teacher described him as "an angel with no problems whatsoever" in our parent teacher conference right before this happened, our older son was there almost 4 years (also with no incident).

We went to the School District to file a formal complaint. To date all they did was re-enroll us to a different school in the District. I doubt the Principal received any formal discipline for her destructive behavior, abuse of authority and filing of false reports. We challenged the student record, and the School District has basically stalled us for over 30 days and the semester ends in 8 business days. They just kept scheduling meeting after meeting, and spacing them apart a week at a time. We were promised a decision on Thursday May 15th, but again, another lie (as no decision was made) and our point of contact (Assistant Superintendent) has left the office for a week.

I also found out that a butter knife is arguably not a "knife" as defined by the California Education Code, Section 48900-48927:

(g) As used in this section, "knife" means any dirk, dagger, or other weapon with a fixed, sharpened blade fitted primarily for stabbing, a weapon with a blade fitted primarily for stabbing, a weapon with a blade longer than 3 1/2 inches, a folding knife with a blade that locks into place, or a razor with an unguarded blade.

So technically, the suspension should not have happened in the first place.

I went to the Superintendent's Office on Wednesday May 21st, to see if I could obtain a public record for the Principal -as a parent, I wanted to see what her qualifications were to be in that position. The Executive Secretary first said I couldn't have a copy. I pointed out that the Principal was a State employee, so don't I have a right to it? She then said that I would have to submit a request in writing, adding "it could be denied." She asked me to explain why I wanted it, I told her the basics of the situation and she said "Just walk away. No one reads student records anyway." I asked her "You're telling me that our rights have been violated and to let it go?" She replied "I'm not saying that. Just walk away."

I told her I wanted the record to be either removed completely or corrected to say that my son accidentally brought a butter knife to school and was suspended -that's it. For me, if they did this, it would be proof that the School District does care about doing the right thing. It wasn't acceptable that nothing was being done at all, and it just seemed like the school district was trying to cover things up.

What should I do now? I have a lawyer that's drafting a letter to the Board right now, but I really doubt that they'll give a sh*t as they didn't respond to me.

Thinking about e-mailing every parent in the school and contacting the local papers ... it's shameful that the District won't take responsibility for one of their employee's screw ups and fix things.

I'm only asking for the correction of an inaccurate report -shocking since I'm out of $10K due to having to put our kids in Private schools because of this individual who indirectly forced us to leave (based on her not providing a safe educational environment).
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Honestly, I just do not know what to say! Basically, your child paid the price for the real criminals in California that the judicial system there just cannot seem to control. That screwball in California who recently stabbed to death three young men, shot to death three young women, all of whom he did not even know very well because he could not get a girlfriend only adds fuel to a fire that is burning out of control. You are wise in choosing a private school, but remember that they have rules too. Check your kid's pockets and reinforce the rule that no knives or anything else that can be considered to be a weapon should be brought to school. Old dinosaurs like myself and my former classmates routinely carried pocketknives to school back in the 1960s and 1970s, but those days are long gone. Times have changed. Good luck. Hope all works out well!
 
Kohai999 said:
You can, and should file civil suit....including pain and suffering, and the cost of putting your kids into private school.
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I ended up graduating from from a small private school because the resource specialist/wrestling coach and the school psychologist both lied about what services I was actually receiving vs what services I was legally entitled to. Cheaper to pay the 27K/year to make me away, then to follow the rules.

Ironically, the school district found it cheaper to send the SED (severely emotionally disturbed) kids to the same private school, shortly after I graduated, then to provide the mandated services.

RobKevlar said:
Send your story to the ACLU. As much as I dislike that group they may be able to provide you with guidence. it seems like your Son's civil rights may have been violated during the questioning without you or a lawyer present. I'm not a lawyer just someone that pays attention to situations like this.
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That's who backed my family up in our lawsuit. Your case is exactly the type that they take, where one side has all the power and money, and the other side (yours) is the wronged party.

For snorts and giggles, look up the events leading up to the 1990 student riot at Gompers Preparatory Academy. Administration overreation, like when the cops were called in your case, escalated a student protest into a unmitigated charley foxtrot.
 
I also requested information on the Principal and the Superintendent based on the California Public Records Act. So far, no information -the school district hasn't provided anything.

I received a School District Newspaper in the mail and it stated that the Superintendent announced his retirement last year, and is currently "expected to serve in an administrative role, reporting directly to the board on special projects, until his retirement in June 2015."

He sounds a bit useless to me: so basically he's retired and only works on "special projects" until he leaves? Maybe that's why they can't do anything (as only the Superintendent and Principal can correct records) ... but it ticks me off that his salary hasn't changed:

He's had the same pay since 2011, every year his salary has been $219,103. I wouldn't say he's earning it! That's a lot of money for nothing. I'd also like to see expense reports and what he writes off on the taxpayers.

If his duties are limited, he should be paid less -not the same.
 
Just reading the account of what transpired makes me very, very angry. I can't imagine how flatgrinder must feel.
Too bad we don't live near each other (I'm in the SF bay area); my employer is an attorney with 30+ years experience and coincidentally is my mother. Although she specializes in Family Law, she would have the resources to address this conflict--if it were local (and if she had the time -- she works 6+ days a week on about 15 active cases.)

Hang in there, man. Document everything (as I believe you have), focus on the relevant facts, and find whatever ways to remain as calm and patient as you can while you navigate this injustice and the bureaucracy it is a part of.
 
That's not a butter "knife". That's a butter "spatula". Knives are used for cutting. Spatulas are used for spreading.

There. Fixed it. :)
 
DrFish said:
That's not a butter "knife". That's a butter "spatula". Knives are used for cutting. Spatulas are used for spreading.

There. Fixed it. :)
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Does your son's school have a cafeteria? I can't for the life of me remember exactly, but I think when I was in elementary school, they served hot lunches, and I think there may have been forks and butter knives provided.
 
That would be a very interesting question.

I told a friend our story and how upset we were that the District had stalled us for over two months .... he created a website. I didn't know what he put on it, he just asked me to send over everything I had written in the past.

A few hours later, I received a Civil Suit threat from the Superintendent accusing me of creating the site, damaging her reputation, and for defamation ... they also e-mailed every parent at school telling them that there are accusations against the Principal and they were looking into it.

They can be fast when they want to be ... it's easier for them to sue a "victim" than to correct a false record?

Damn bureaucrats!
 
I know Marcus Lin....he is an honorable, hardworking person who also makes excellent knives in his(limited) spare time.

He doesn't lie, he doesn't fabricate incidents and situations, he is a straight-shooter. He is also a martial artist and in good shape...so the accusations of being a pussy doesn't wash either.

The school district that his children are/were attending is an interesting one. I know this because my wife grew up not far from where he lives, and her parents still live in the same zip code. At the bottom of the hill is some run down, hardscrabble living, and at the top, it's beautiful and serene. The top of the hill is a good place to raise kids.

What the school district and the individuals responsible are doing is really reprehensible...and I think it was good of Marcus to use this Forum to let off some steam and get some good feedback. Those of you who have responded unkindly are likely not very much part of this Community, and we are better off if that is the case.

Marcus IS part of this Community, as much as he is part of the Community in which he resides, and is it too much to ask that he be treated with more kindness and consideration in the virtual Community than the one that is making his life difficult in the "real" world?

I have personally seen and been responsible for the negative behavior in the past that comes so easy to using a keyboard to communicate, and have been a dick to Marcus in the past myself. He didn't deserve it from me, and he doesn't deserve it from any of you.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
My youngest son had an incident in 3rd grade last year. He took a broken pencil sharpener and jammed it inside of an empty glue stick tube, both of which he found in the trash in his classroom. The result was that the corner of the pencil sharpener blade stuck out the end of the tube about half a millimeter. My son made it so that he could safely use it to cut out shapes from a piece of paper lying on a flat surface. A girl in the class thought it was neat and asked if she could borrow it. He gave it to her and she took it home with her. The next morning, the girl's mother brings it to the principal's office and informs the principal about how a boy gave her daughter this dangerous "weapon" at school. The principal is then obligated to investigate. My son gets called into the principals office and, of course, my wife gets a call at home (I was out of the country at the time). Both the principal and his teacher told my wife they thought it was a neat invention and laughed at the thought of it being a weapon, and that was pretty much the end of it. This was a relief in light of the stories of kids all over the country getting suspended for having cartoon pictures of bombs, knives, or guns.

I'm waiting for the first kid to get suspended for carrying a pencil that is too sharp.
 
Goggle "Student Butterknife", unfortunately the "zero tolerance" policies and mentalities in schools today make this far too common.
Cases like this should be corrected with confiscation and a warning and maybe detention (stay in during break and write lines, not detention and interrogation)... the way they used to be handled.
I hope that you can get this all straightened out.
 
I understand the "zero tolerance" thing ... but for the Principal to add a whole paragraph in the record that insinuates my son is psychologically disturbed and deliberately brought the knife to "kill people" (he never said that) -is just plain wrong. (She also told us in the meeting, on the following Monday, that she "rose through the school district via the Psychology department.")

I went to the records office over a week ago, after finding out about the Public Records Act, and requested a copy of her qualifications and they initially refused to provide them -basically saying "you can't have it." After mentioning the Public Records act, the Executive Secretary reluctantly said "You have to do it in writing, and we have 10 days to respond, but there's no guarantee you'll get it." She then asked me what it was about, I told her what happened and would like to know her qualifications and background ... she then spent the next 10 to 15 minutes trying to dissuade me from pursuing this further saying "Only the Principal can correct the record, and she won't do it." I filed a request and to date, I haven't heard anything back ...

Here's what the Principal wrote in my son's record (bear in mind he's 6 years old) and she has crappy grammar:

“C brought a kitchen knife to school in his pants pocket. Another student saw the knife and reported it to the teacher. He admitted bring the knife to school and understood that it was breaking a school rule. He said he brought it because he wanted to “kill people” and with further investigation, he was upset because he is bored at school and does not like his teacher. He continue on with how he likes to play “Call of Duty” but his mom has taken it away from him. He says that he does not like anything at school and only wants to play video games.”

Her incorrect accusations can be directly interpreted as: "She believes our son poses a danger to others because he “intentionally” brought a “dangerous weapon” to school for reason of “killing people” as in “video games” spurred by his “boredom” and “dislike” of his teacher." This inaccurate portrayal is incredibly misleading and damaging –it insinuates a mental disturbance, that's why we would like it amended or removed. (Especially the fact that she describes him as having brought a "kitchen knife" weapon which isn't true).

From the paragraph, I would say she misrepresented this material fact to elevate the seriousness of the situation in order to make ludicrous accusations and carry out the most extreme procedures that any Kindergartner in the School District has probably ever had to face.

What would you guys do ... keep pursuing justice, or walk away from it?
 
Stick it the The Man(or Woman) brother!

What would I do? It isn't legal and you don't want my advice on that.....It's Mosaic in a basic sense....and involves burning.

FIGHT! give it to them with epic proportion...they have insurance.....let them have cause to use it!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Don't back down! This type of behavior from school and public officials must be stopped. How dare they treat your child like they did? How dare they interrogate him alone without you or your wife present? How dare they try to intimidate and threaten you and your child? Sending Child Services to your home to possibly take you kids?
This is an attack on your family, your children's civil rights and all of us. This is another form of "government" out of control.
All the teachers, administrators, counselors and superintendents involved need to be taught a lesson and held accountable. Take them to court!
 
I've held off commenting as long as I can. First, to clarify my view point... I have no kids and never will, so I don't work with the school districts around here and don't really know how they work. I never advocate "willy-nilly', that someone should file lawsuits. Most disagreements should be able to be settled without relying on lawyers to "sue a fix" to an issue.

Having said that, I advocate most strongly that you pursue this in civil litigation because from what I see in your information is a school administration system that has abrogated it's responsibility to the truth and are refusing to right several wrongs just to cover their collective rear-ends, which is going to fail them in the long run because they are flat out wrong. I see falsification of records, lying, threats, attempts at intimidation, abuse of power, and false reports to CPS.

Your efforts may not end up in court, as they may finally decide to do what's right and change the records to reflect reality, publicly apologize for their treatment of your family and fire the principal, but don't hold your breath. Now, I am not a lawyer and by California law you may not be able to do this but ....

I recommend filing a shotgun lawsuit on the whole abusive system - principal, superintendent, anyone (clerks, etc) who refuses to abide by the law (ORA), the school board, CPS and whoever (probably the principal, but maybe one of her minions) called in CPS and anyone else involved in trying to cover this up.

And when you finally file the lawsuit and it becomes public record, PLEASE post links here to those actions/events.
 
I recommend filing a shotgun lawsuit on the whole abusive system - principal, superintendent, anyone (clerks, etc) who refuses to abide by the law (ORA), the school board, CPS and whoever (probably the principal, but maybe one of her minions) called in CPS and anyone else involved in trying to cover this up.
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I second this. They've been giving you the run around, trying to block you, and screwing up your son's future. Put the heat on all of them, there's a point where eventually SOMEBODY will break down and spill the info you want. You don't need to get them ALL to tell the truth, just one of them would be enough to make the whole lie their telling crumble. Call your lawyer and run this idea past him, if he says go, do it.

Good luck, Flatgrinder, give em hell.
 
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