So I was being talked to by a DEA fella about a certain family member in a public place in San Jose,CA and of course they ask if I have any weapons on me and I do, a Spyderco Endura. After he's done searching for any other weapons on me he flips opens the Endura with his wrist and tells me it's illegal to carry a knife in California if it can be opened just like the way he did. Now the pivot hasn't been loosened by me for any reason, if anything I have tighten it because the pivot screw was getting loose but no different from being stock from factory except it's been used. So after a little while at the end he says he can take the knife and destroy it or give it back and give me a ticket for a misdemeanor. I said fine take it but I want a receipt/note saying he took the Endura which I thought the had to give if asked when confiscating anything from you and he tells me he doesn't have any to give me. Was I in the wrong cause I can flip open all my knives or really any knife I have handled in my experience with my wrist? Or was he not being very nice?
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My Knife Got Confiscated from Me
- Thread starter KinJames
- Start date
I don't know anything about CA law, but, sadly, I think your Endura was just "donated" to the cause.
My recommendation is that you, very quickly, learn what the law is in CA and, depending on what you learn, call the DEA and ask to speak to a supervisor. In my experience, federal agents don't, or I should say, didn't at the time I was in LE, write a "ticket for a misdemeanor." In some states federal agents do not have the authority to enforce state laws. Again, I have no idea what CA says on the issue. To me, it smells like he intimidated you out of your knife.
If you know an attorney, I'd have him/her make the phone call.
If you act quickly enough, it's possible you can get your knife back, but it's likely gone. I'd probably chalk this up to a lesson to avoid the types of people, including family members, who attract the attention of law enforcement.
I hope it works out.
My recommendation is that you, very quickly, learn what the law is in CA and, depending on what you learn, call the DEA and ask to speak to a supervisor. In my experience, federal agents don't, or I should say, didn't at the time I was in LE, write a "ticket for a misdemeanor." In some states federal agents do not have the authority to enforce state laws. Again, I have no idea what CA says on the issue. To me, it smells like he intimidated you out of your knife.
If you know an attorney, I'd have him/her make the phone call.
If you act quickly enough, it's possible you can get your knife back, but it's likely gone. I'd probably chalk this up to a lesson to avoid the types of people, including family members, who attract the attention of law enforcement.
I hope it works out.
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I can't imagine a LEO confiscating something lawfully WITHOUT providing you with some sort of documentation.
I think he screwed you over. Write down the details if the encounter, ie., name of the officer, reason for talking to you, date and time, etc. and call the DEA and file a complaint ASAP.
I think he screwed you over. Write down the details if the encounter, ie., name of the officer, reason for talking to you, date and time, etc. and call the DEA and file a complaint ASAP.
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Critter
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You might consider getting a lawyer, although probably not worth the cost unless you have a family friend. That knife is not illegal under California state law. In fact, CA law specifically exempts one-hand opening knives with a bias towards closure from their Switchblade statute. That law was upheld back in 2007 by CA Appeals Court.
Not sure if San Jose has any length limits, but in any case, that has nothing to do with being able to wrist flick the knife open.
California Penal Code § 653k
Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, “switchblade knife” means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. “Switchblade knife” does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
Not sure if San Jose has any length limits, but in any case, that has nothing to do with being able to wrist flick the knife open.
California Penal Code § 653k
Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, “switchblade knife” means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. “Switchblade knife” does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
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It probably wouldn't help, but a better answer to the officers question about having a weapon might have been "No sir, but I do have a pocket knife." Just to be sure to clarify that a knife isn't necessarily a weapon.
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I would try to call the agency involved and say you want the knife back for your collection and don't intend to carry it anymore, due to it being "illegal for carry". I can't get my spidercos to open without applying pressure to the blade, but I don't have an endura
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Sorry to hear that, unfortunately the cop was being a jerk as 'critter' referred to it is in fact a legal knife in CA. However, San Jo does have a length limit similar to L.A. and S.F. of 3 inches (CA in general has no length limit on folders). Legally he could have confiscated your Endura, but not for the reason of its opening mechanism just for the length restriction. There's also the issue of concealment where in CA. you cannot conceal a knife over 2 inches, meaning it has to be visible i.e. clip showing.
Obviously cops always have discretion, sounds as if he just had a personal issue with you. It sucks big time I love my Endura and I would be pissed as well if that happened to me....
Obviously cops always have discretion, sounds as if he just had a personal issue with you. It sucks big time I love my Endura and I would be pissed as well if that happened to me....
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This is great advice when questioned by any officer should the situation arise. ANY WEAPON is illegal unless you have permits, this answer would characterize your knife as a tool. This is exactly what my dad told me to say when I was younger, and in my case it is the truth. My knives are tools first and if SHTF then well you know.....
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Like Propthepolecat said file a complaint. Many folks with any authority (even a crossing guard) think they can take what they want when they want and most people are sheep and would rather let it go than challenge the act. Whenever I challenge most people in a polite manner and ask their name etc I find that most reverse there decision and would rather not risk a complaint upon them. Makes me think they might have something to hide or knew they we wrong in the first place.
KinJames
First, I'm not going to get into the legality of the knife, while I do believe your knife was legal under CA state law (I'm an LEO), I do not know if you violated any local laws (specific to SJ). As far as the knife over two inches being concealed being illegal, that I've never heard, but that doesnt mean it doesn't exists. I'll admit that cops don't know everything but I haven't heard of that one being a CA law. Now on to the other issues, first of all, whenever my agency confiscates something the officer is suppose to give you some sort of receipt. There are times we don't have the forms with us and we still confiscate items. In that case he could have asked you to follow him to the station to give you the receipt. Just because he doesn't have the actual form doesn't mean he's going to let contraband get away. He might have violated policy but he didn't violate law. Also as an ex-federal agent (NOT DEA), I was not allowed to enforce state laws. So long story short, I THINK (based on what I know and what I've read in this thread), while the DEA agent didn't do things "by the book", at the end of the day he confiscated a illegal knife (based on what one forum member said about local SJ knife law of 3 inches). If the knife wasn't illegal I'd talk to a supervisor and get your knife back. At the end of the day you lost a sub $100 knife and don't have any pending legal issues hanging over your head. Before you decide to take this further" I'd look into Ca Law, local Law, and Federal Law. If you knife is still legal, file a complaint against the Agent and get your knife back. If they destroyed it already, make them reimburse you. I always tell people that if you think the law has wronged you, then file a complaint. Most agencies have a complaint process that is fair and impartial and will get to the bottom of things. No agency wants dishonest cops or agents in their department. They're bad for business.
First, I'm not going to get into the legality of the knife, while I do believe your knife was legal under CA state law (I'm an LEO), I do not know if you violated any local laws (specific to SJ). As far as the knife over two inches being concealed being illegal, that I've never heard, but that doesnt mean it doesn't exists. I'll admit that cops don't know everything but I haven't heard of that one being a CA law. Now on to the other issues, first of all, whenever my agency confiscates something the officer is suppose to give you some sort of receipt. There are times we don't have the forms with us and we still confiscate items. In that case he could have asked you to follow him to the station to give you the receipt. Just because he doesn't have the actual form doesn't mean he's going to let contraband get away. He might have violated policy but he didn't violate law. Also as an ex-federal agent (NOT DEA), I was not allowed to enforce state laws. So long story short, I THINK (based on what I know and what I've read in this thread), while the DEA agent didn't do things "by the book", at the end of the day he confiscated a illegal knife (based on what one forum member said about local SJ knife law of 3 inches). If the knife wasn't illegal I'd talk to a supervisor and get your knife back. At the end of the day you lost a sub $100 knife and don't have any pending legal issues hanging over your head. Before you decide to take this further" I'd look into Ca Law, local Law, and Federal Law. If you knife is still legal, file a complaint against the Agent and get your knife back. If they destroyed it already, make them reimburse you. I always tell people that if you think the law has wronged you, then file a complaint. Most agencies have a complaint process that is fair and impartial and will get to the bottom of things. No agency wants dishonest cops or agents in their department. They're bad for business.
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WHAT!? Okay sorry, but you just lost the knife for no reason. I live right next door to you, metaphorically speaking, and I carry a Spyderco Endura as well. It's 100% legal. California law states that knives that can be opened by gravity or inertia are illegal, and it seems as if the Endura will fall into that category. HOWEVER, Penal Code 653 K states that as long as the knife has some sort of detent that "biases the blade" towards the closed position, it is legal. In my wallet, I carry copies of Penal Code 653K and 12020 just in case of events such as this. I'm pretty sure there's a website where the author describes being at the meeting where this exception was enacted.
Edit: Here. http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/knifelaw.html
Search for "detent". It is the second result. If you scroll down a page, there's also a letter from Senator Karnette, where she writes that, "Although some one-handed opening knives can be opened with a strong flick of the wrist, so long as they contact a detent or similar mechanism that provides some resistance to opening the knife, then the exemption is triggered."
Also, a detent is just a bias towards closure, or something that stops the blade from opening. If you slowly close the Endura's blade, you would notice that when the blade is around 1/2" from being closed, the lock back design "sucks" the blade into the handle. That's detent.
Edit: Here. http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/knifelaw.html
Search for "detent". It is the second result. If you scroll down a page, there's also a letter from Senator Karnette, where she writes that, "Although some one-handed opening knives can be opened with a strong flick of the wrist, so long as they contact a detent or similar mechanism that provides some resistance to opening the knife, then the exemption is triggered."
Also, a detent is just a bias towards closure, or something that stops the blade from opening. If you slowly close the Endura's blade, you would notice that when the blade is around 1/2" from being closed, the lock back design "sucks" the blade into the handle. That's detent.
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My suggestion would be to move to a free country like America.
You have to love Commifornia though, you can sell weed on main street but you can't carry a knife.
You have to love Commifornia though, you can sell weed on main street but you can't carry a knife.
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Wow, lots of great info here... thank you to all of the folks in law enforcement for speaking up. I have a few close friends in law enforcement and they all say the same thing. They are all held accountable for their actions and intimidation is frowned upon. If you have the agents name or remember what he looked like, see if you can talk to his supervisor. If not, then read up on where you can file a complaint, I am assured the agent will be held accountable to some extent. He doesn't just get to skate. I'm figuring if he confiscates 10 knives under intimidation, i'm pretty sure not one person will follow up on how to get it back. I'm sure that's what he's banking on. Word to the wise... If you are surrounded by family that is consistently under the watchful eye of Law Enforcement.... It may be better to let sleeping dogs lie. It's kind of Odd that the DEA would question you... Local law enforcement maybe but DEA? If you were out with your family member (of whom the DEA was interested in) and they questioned you. Ok, pretty normal.... If the guy that they were interested in wasn't around and they questioned you....well then, that's another story all together. Best of luck, keep us posted
Lots of good advice and accurate information in this thread. I've lived in California for 42 years and make a point of knowing the local knife laws. Different counties have different laws so a little internet research on your specific area (or any other county you plan to enter) is a good use of your time.
Those who don't know their rights will make it much easier to have their rights violated.
A few words of advice from my lawyer on this subject (some already mentioned)-
Know the law.
Print out a copy of the specific knife statutes that apply to you and carry it in your wallet. I advised a friend of mine to do this and no less than a month later, when a cop said he was going to confiscate his "illegal" knife my friend said "Wait a minute, I have a printout of the knife law", and when the cop heard that he said "Ok, Ok" and he didn't take the knife. I was very proud of my friend.
Never refer to your knife as a weapon or aknowledge it as a weapon.
If an LEO trys to tell you that your knife is illegal, tell them "My lawyer tells me different. If you take my knife I will call him and have him meet me at your station".
If an LEO insists on taking your knife, ask for their name and ID number. But don't just ask them, look for any name badge, ID badge, etc, that they might be wearing. And get their license plate number. Treat the situation just as you would a hit and run car accident. Information is power. Just walking into a station and saying "Some cop took my knife" won't get you very far.
Unfortunately, there are some thieves with badges out their. And they will use the power and intimidation of their authority to relieve you of your property. Also, not all LEOs know every detail of the law but make assumptions or base their thinking on something they heard. Just like anyone else, LEOs are capable of making honest, uninformed mistakes.
As demonstrated by the experience of my friend above, cops are a lot less likely to violate your rights if you show them that you know your rights. Many cops rely on peoples ignorance of the law to maniplulate them, and in some cases, take advantage of them. Though I know it can be hard, you have to resist the intimidation of authority and speak up for your rights WHEN they are being violated. Waiting until later won't likely yield a favorable result for you. People are often afraid to do this because they fear arrest, but it's extremely unlikely that a cop is going to knowingly make a false arrest just to "teach you a lesson". They may threaten to arrest you, but that's part of the intimidation they use to shut you up and make you accept having your rights violated.
Those who don't know their rights will make it much easier to have their rights violated.
A few words of advice from my lawyer on this subject (some already mentioned)-
Know the law.
Print out a copy of the specific knife statutes that apply to you and carry it in your wallet. I advised a friend of mine to do this and no less than a month later, when a cop said he was going to confiscate his "illegal" knife my friend said "Wait a minute, I have a printout of the knife law", and when the cop heard that he said "Ok, Ok" and he didn't take the knife. I was very proud of my friend.
Never refer to your knife as a weapon or aknowledge it as a weapon.
If an LEO trys to tell you that your knife is illegal, tell them "My lawyer tells me different. If you take my knife I will call him and have him meet me at your station".
If an LEO insists on taking your knife, ask for their name and ID number. But don't just ask them, look for any name badge, ID badge, etc, that they might be wearing. And get their license plate number. Treat the situation just as you would a hit and run car accident. Information is power. Just walking into a station and saying "Some cop took my knife" won't get you very far.
Unfortunately, there are some thieves with badges out their. And they will use the power and intimidation of their authority to relieve you of your property. Also, not all LEOs know every detail of the law but make assumptions or base their thinking on something they heard. Just like anyone else, LEOs are capable of making honest, uninformed mistakes.
As demonstrated by the experience of my friend above, cops are a lot less likely to violate your rights if you show them that you know your rights. Many cops rely on peoples ignorance of the law to maniplulate them, and in some cases, take advantage of them. Though I know it can be hard, you have to resist the intimidation of authority and speak up for your rights WHEN they are being violated. Waiting until later won't likely yield a favorable result for you. People are often afraid to do this because they fear arrest, but it's extremely unlikely that a cop is going to knowingly make a false arrest just to "teach you a lesson". They may threaten to arrest you, but that's part of the intimidation they use to shut you up and make you accept having your rights violated.
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I'd cease conversing with Federal agents, unless I was on a witness stand.
powernoodle
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I advise not rolling over and playing dead, because you will live to regret it.
And re-read Mr. Killgar's excellent post #15. Its what I would have said had he not said it already.
And re-read Mr. Killgar's excellent post #15. Its what I would have said had he not said it already.
Clutch: If there ever is a next time, and hopefully not, I will remember to say "No sir, but I do have a pocket knife."
jdk1: Truthfully I was tired from a hard days work and nervous so I wasn't really thinking straight and only noticed a badge and saw DEA on his vest. I don't even recall what his name was or what it said on his badge.
Thanks for all the info everyone and will probably file a complaint depending if it's true about knives being over 3inches not being OK in San Jose. It's not too big of a deal since I got the Endura for around 40bucks, I'm more annoyed and little sad then anything since it's been with me for a couple of years. If anyone can confirm the about the law of 3inch knife in San Jose would be great.
jdk1: Truthfully I was tired from a hard days work and nervous so I wasn't really thinking straight and only noticed a badge and saw DEA on his vest. I don't even recall what his name was or what it said on his badge.
Thanks for all the info everyone and will probably file a complaint depending if it's true about knives being over 3inches not being OK in San Jose. It's not too big of a deal since I got the Endura for around 40bucks, I'm more annoyed and little sad then anything since it's been with me for a couple of years. If anyone can confirm the about the law of 3inch knife in San Jose would be great.
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Sorry, you are wrong here.
Any folder may be carried concealed...completely, no clip needs to be visible. There is no state length limit...if it folds it can be carried concealed. Auto's need to be under 2".
Fixed blades need to be openly carried. It doesn't matter the blade length, if it is a fixed blade it must be openly carried.