My Knife Got Confiscated from Me

Lol, if things got to the point that it was clear that confiscation was going to happen, I would've just filmed the whole thing and asked for badge number, name, and a receipt. If he refuses, file a complaint and threaten to start a case. That usually gets things going.
 
Yeah, I didn't handle the situation well in regards to asking for name and badge number but like I said I was a nervous and tired. At the time I felt like I might aggravate the situation more which I just didn't really want to deal with. And if there is a next time I'll be a little more knowledgeable. I will file a complaint but not after I can confirm about the 3inch rule in San Jose.
 
Kin, I live across the street from San Jose, and I believe there is no limit. Also, I think this whole area is under Santa Clara county, and there's not really any specific laws for the city. I may be wrong though.
 
Lots of good info here.

The idea to have your local statutes printed and handy is a good one. Also, if an officer ever threatened to take away any personal property of mine without cause (ie., I'm being arrested, a warrant, etc.), I'd a) ask for a supervisor to be present (and be willing to wait a bit for them to get there, b) ask them to cite the statute which they believe you to be in violation of, c) get that statute written down, ALONG with the officer AND supervisor's name, badge, and unit number, and d) refuse to surrender the item until a proper receipt can be provided. Again wait for the supervisor or another officer to arrive with one. That's how I'd play along. Any trouble, and you do have the right to file a complaint, as well as seek legal recourse with an attorney if you find them to be in the wrong after they've strong armed their way into taking your stuff.

I have great respect for officers of the law, but a good number of them don't know the statutes any better than the average joe (there's simply no way they can remember ALL statutes off the top of their head), and a select few are as corrupt as any criminal you'll meet, sadly. For the VAST majority of the officers here in AZ, my interactions with them (even when I was in the wrong, though not for anything serious) have been more than pleasant. Just a bunch of guys out trying to do their job. Sorry to hear you may have run into a lemon!
 
shappa said:
Sorry, you are wrong here.
Any folder may be carried concealed...completely, no clip needs to be visible. There is no state length limit...if it folds it can be carried concealed. Auto's need to be under 2".
Fixed blades need to be openly carried. It doesn't matter the blade length, if it is a fixed blade it must be openly carried.
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My bad in not being specific regarding the concealment issue, sorry. I was referring to my CA County and not all of CA, my County prohibits concealment of fixed or folders greater than 2 inches and restricts folder lengths to less than 3 inches. I live in a large urban County in CA which has a history of suppressing certain rights, not as bad as NYC carry laws but headed that way....
 
A lot of good info here. I do have to disagree with those who say not to acknowledge your knife when law enforcement asks if you have a weapon. The stuff they deal with I would not think they would take kindly when mincing words and if they find that knife on you then you will be perceived as a liar and possible a threat. I have always disclosed any guns or knives on my person or in my truck and if was ok. I was just asked not to reach in that direction. If you are legally carrying why not disclose it. On the other hand I leave my expensive knives at home when I go in town (I carry them in the woods) and carry an Endura in case it is confiscated. I find used ones here for around $30 to $35. Best knife deal around.
 
A DEA Agent is a federal officer....Strange that he would try to enforce a local knife law ( or even know it correctly). Are you sure that is where he was from? If he was questioning your about a family member, then he will be talking to other family members and his friends too, so he would not be too hard to ID....
 
Urban, would you mind telling me which county that is? I'm trying to fully understand all of California's knife restrictions, but haven't made much progress. (Nothing due to my procrastination of course!) Off the top of my head, I know that SF has a 3" limit if you're loitering, and LA has a 3" limit.
 
high desert said:
I do have to disagree with those who say not to acknowledge your knife when law enforcement asks if you have a weapon. The stuff they deal with I would not think they would take kindly when mincing words and if they find that knife on you then you will be perceived as a liar and possible a threat. I have always disclosed any guns or knives on my person or in my truck and if was ok. I was just asked not to reach in that direction. If you are legally carrying why not disclose it.
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In AZ, we do have a duty to declare IF asked. I tend to do so without being asked, as it generally paints you as a good guy immediately (got out of a ticket I deserved because I was courteous, apologetic, had my endorsement and other papers, and offered my CCW without being asked for it). So I'm in full agreeable with the above statement. You CAN say the knife is a tool, true, but honestly stating its presence is better than playing games and dodging the question.
 
high desert said:
A lot of good info here. I do have to disagree with those who say not to acknowledge your knife when law enforcement asks if you have a weapon. The stuff they deal with I would not think they would take kindly when mincing words and if they find that knife on you then you will be perceived as a liar and possible a threat. I have always disclosed any guns or knives on my person or in my truck and if was ok. I was just asked not to reach in that direction. If you are legally carrying why not disclose it.
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I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that a person should lie to the police or deny carrying a knife. What we are saying is, don't refer to your knife as a "weapon". The law specifically forbids the carrying of a "weapon" but does not forbid the carrying of a knife for use as a cutting tool. This my sound like legal semantics but "intent" and "conciousness of guilt" are very big and very real parts of the law. You don't want a cop testifying in court, in front of the judge who's deciding your fate, that you admitted to "possessing a WEAPON".

I explained this to the friend I mentioned earlier, and when the cop asked him if he had any weapons he said "No", When the cop found the knife, during an illegal search of his backpack, and asked "What's this?" my friend said "That's a tool". He was neither arrested nor had the knife confiscated. After the incident my friend came up with a saying "Don't be a fool, call it a TOOL". I know it sounds silly, but speaking as someone who's been through the criminal justice system, that's just the way it is. The cops I know wouldn't care less if you said "No, but I am carrying a knife".

Of course, you are NEVER obligated to answer that question at all. A cop only has the right to search you or seize your property if they have probable cause. If they don't have probable cause then they have no legal right to take a knife off you. They do have the legal right to ASK you to hand over your knife, but you are not obligated to give it to them. Once agin, this is where they use the intimidation of their authority. If they search you without probable cause then they, the department, and the county can be sued for violation of your 4th ammendment rights. This is the reason that cops don't just search people at random whenever they feel like it. Such civil lawsuits are costly and no cop or county official wants to have to deal with them.

If you are being placed under arrest for some reason, then they WILL search you. In which case you have a choice- exercise your right to remain silent (which any defense attorney would advise), or cooperate and try to talk your way out of it. Each situation is different and one has to make that choice for themselves based on the facts at hand.

Another thing I would like to reiterate is- If you choose to just comply with the cops requests/demands/etc, and give up you knife without justification, and if your thinking is "No big deal, I'll just get it back later", you could be in for a big and disapointing surprise. Don't expect the criminal justice system to care one bit about your knife being illegaly siezed. Don't expect the LEOs department, or even Internal Affairs, to care one bit. Remember, they are cops, and you are just "some guy who was carrying a knife", that's not going to make you very popular with cops. Unless you have a lawyer, don't expect much results from just asking or even filing a complaint. Cops tend to stick together and back each other up. I recall a story years ago about someone here on Bladeforums who complained to Internal Affairs about their knife being illegaly confiscated and the folks at Internal Affairs literally laughed at him.
 
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No Killgar. A LEO needs probable cause to arrest. Only reasonable suspicion to perform a search for officer safety ("Terry Pat"). It is Supreme Court Case law (Terry v Ohio). If the incident occurred as described, a legal knife should have been returned at the end of the subject stop. An illegal knife could be confiscated with some kind of documentation (arrest, summons, report, safekeeping record, etc.). The LEO's information could help find if the incident was documented or handled incorrectly. Regardless I don't understand any knife laws. I do not see any reason why any one knife type is any more dangerious to public safety than another. It is the person's actions that commit crimes not the tool.
 
killgar said:
I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that a person should lie to the police or deny carrying a knife. What we are saying is, don't refer to your knife as a "weapon". The law specifically forbids the carrying of a "weapon" but does not forbid the carrying of a knife for use as a cutting tool. This my sound like legal semantics but "intent" and "conciousness of guilt" are very big and very real parts of the law. You don't want a cop testifying in court, in front of the judge who's deciding your fate, that you admitted to "possessing a WEAPON".

I explained this to the friend I mentioned earlier, and when the cop asked him if he had any weapons he said "No", When the cop found the knife, during an illegal search of his backpack, and asked "What's this?" my friend said "That's a tool". He was neither arrested nor had the knife confiscated. After the incident my friend came up with a saying "Don't be a fool, call it a TOOL". I know it sounds silly, but speaking as someone who's been through the criminal justice system, that's just the way it is. The cops I know wouldn't care less if you said "No, but I am carrying a knife".

Of course, you are NEVER obligated to answer that question at all. A cop only has the right to search you or seize your property if they have probable cause. If they don't have probable cause then they have no legal right to take a knife off you. They do have the legal right to ASK you to hand over your knife, but you are not obligated to give it to them. Once agin, this is where they use the intimidation of their authority. If they search you without probable cause then they, the department, and the county can be sued for violation of your 4th ammendment rights. This is the reason that cops don't just search people at random whenever they feel like it. Such civil lawsuits are costly and no cop or county official wants to have to deal with them.

If you are being placed under arrest for some reason, then they WILL search you. In which case you have a choice- exercise your right to remain silent (which any defense attorney would advise), or cooperate and try to talk your way out of it. Each situation is different and one has to make that choice for themselves based on the facts at hand.

Another thing I would like to reiterate is- If you choose to just comply with the cops requests/demands/etc, and give up you knife without justification, and if your thinking is "No big deal, I'll just get it back later", you could be in for a big and disapointing surprise. Don't expect the criminal justice system to care one bit about your knife being illegaly siezed. Don't expect the LEOs department, or even Internal Affairs, to care one bit. Remember, they are cops, and you are just "some guy who was carrying a knife", that's not going to make you very popular with cops. Unless you have a lawyer, don't expect much results from just asking or even filing a complaint. Cops tend to stick together and back each other up. I recall a story years ago about someone here on Bladeforums who complained to Internal Affairs about their knife being illegaly confiscated and the folks at Internal Affairs literally laughed at him.
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What is a weapon? My feet? My hands? My mind? A pencil? What I am saying is that when you engage leo's in public, call a knife a knife. Neither a weapon or tool. Your not in the courtroom yet. And if you make it to a courtroom the city's attorney will be sure to tell everyone how you were trying to deceive or flat out lying about having a concealed weapon while being questioned by the officer. To most people a knife is a weapon not a state of mind. People are simpler than you think. Your statements seem to be all about preposition. I have had numerous encounters with game warden, sheriffs deputies, highway patrol etc. so I base my comments on life experiences and I am just trying to keep people out of trouble. Believe me I have no sympathy for law enforcement. I have experienced their BS multiple times and challenge them as much as I can as a free citizen. I also do not wish to argue here as your opinion is just as important as mine.
 
tueller said:
No Killgar. A LEO needs probable cause to arrest. Only reasonable suspicion to perform a search for officer safety ("Terry Pat"). It is Supreme Court Case law (Terry v Ohio).
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Thank you for the correction. I sometimes get my terminology mixed up. Bottom line is, they need a legitimate reason that will stand up in court, they can't just stop you at random and search you. Not legally anyways.
 
high desert said:
What is a weapon? My feet? My hands? My mind? A pencil? What I am saying is that when you engage leo's in public, call a knife a knife. Neither a weapon or tool. Your not in the courtroom yet. And if you make it to a courtroom the city's attorney will be sure to tell everyone how you were trying to deceive or flat out lying about having a concealed weapon while being questioned by the officer. To most people a knife is a weapon not a state of mind. People are simpler than you think. Your statements seem to be all about preposition. I have had numerous encounters with game warden, sheriffs deputies, highway patrol etc. so I base my comments on life experiences and I am just trying to keep people out of trouble. Believe me I have no sympathy for law enforcement. I have experienced their BS multiple times and challenge them as much as I can as a free citizen. I also do not wish to argue here as your opinion is just as important as mine.
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No argument here, just friendly discussion :)

As I mentioned in the second paragraph of the reply you quoted, I've been through the criminal justice system, both as a defendant, and as an inmate of the California Department of Corrections (weapons related charge, wrongly convicted on a detectives perjured testimony, I could write a book). I have a criminal defense attorney who advises me on knife laws and related matters (I have a strong interest in such matters as I'd prefer not to go back). My longtime girlfriend also has a father and a brother who are local cops. All of the advice I give on this subject is the same advice that they've given me. But people are free to take it or leave it.

As far as the issue of a knife being a weapon or a tool, I agree that it sounds silly, but it's certainly not the craziest thing I've seen regarding the criminal justice system. And while lying to the cops is a dangerous thing to do, refering to ones knife as a tool instead of a weapon isn't the same as a lie, especially if it's true.
 
I am sorry for your incarseration. I have witnessed leo's give false statements to cya each other. If your attorney/friends say to call it a tool instead of a knife I can see why and respect your/there opinion. I am here to increase my knowledge as well. I think a lot will depend on the individual who is asking the question. If I was asked "do you have any weapons on you?" Your saying I should say no but I do have a cutting tool. I can try that. I can see the leo responding "you mean a knife?"
 
high desert said:
I am sorry for your incarseration. I have witnessed leo's give false statements to cya each other. If your attorney/friends say to call it a tool instead of a knife I can see why and respect your/there opinion. I am here to increase my knowledge as well. I think a lot will depend on the individual who is asking the question. If I was asked "do you have any weapons on you?" Your saying I should say no but I do have a cutting tool. I can try that. I can see the leo responding "you mean a knife?"
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Please excuse me if I tend to get a bit hyper-technical on this subject, I can't help it. ;) And something I've learned is that criminal law can be EXTREMELY hyper-technical.

There's nothing wrong with refering to a knife as a knife, or admitting to carrying a knife. The POSSIBLE problematic issue is refering to your knife as a "weapon", or saying that you carry it for "self-defense". The definition of "weapon" is very different than the definition of "tool". Of course, that difference may or may not matter in court, many things are possible in court. But here is where intent could come into play, refering to ones knife as a "weapon" could be interpreted to mean that you are carrying it with the specific intent to cause serous bodily harm or death to someone. When in reality, you might just be carrying it to open boxes at work. And if you ever use a knife for self-defense, you deffinitely don't want to refer to it as "a weapon" or admit that you were carrying it for "self-defense", especially in any taped interview. That could really come back to haunt you in court.

I currently have a good lawyer (I believe he is anyways), so I defer to him on such matters and follow his advice when he says "If a cop asks you if you have any weapons, say 'NO. But I am carrying two knives'". Now if a cop were to say to me "Oh yeah, well a knife is a weapon", I would simply say "Not to me. My knives are tools". And the cop can make of that whatever they want.

Like I said, it may or may not matter if you find yourself in court. But it's a simple policy to follow and it's certainly no crime to refuse to refer to or acknowledge your knife as a "weapon". I don't claim to be an expert by any means. I always hope that my lawyer is right, sometimes they are not. And I never rely on cops, even ones I know, to give me legal advice. I only rely on them to give me an idea of how cops think and react.
 
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I live in california and have researched the knife laws in detail, and the other posters are correct: there is no length limit or requirement to display the clip openly. The officer manipulated your lack of knowledge by lying to you about the illegality of the knife. He also took it from you by threatening to escalate the non-offense to a misdemeanor. I don't know what kind of officer this was, but he is a jerk. What kind of officer just "collects toys" during the course of a legitimate investigation? I have also learned that any time you talk to an officer it is to your disadvantage unless you are trying to use the law to your advantage by "sicking" them on someone else. Think about what they are paid to do: arrest people and give tickets--both to ensure their job security and make money for the department and county. Any voluntary questioning that you participate in will help them to this end and unless you are trying to assist them in the arrest someone else or to point fault at someone else, they are using all information you provide against you! Next time, defend your rights with knowledge and hold them accountable for their actions and mis-interpretation of the law. If they brush off a receipt, ask to photograph their badge and ask for their busness card with their name. An officer must provide you with their identification. You can also inquire about the process to file a complaint. Take steps to hold the person accountable for their actions. Formal complaints and internal investigations/poor performance reviews are the bane of any professional seeking to advance--use this to your advantage.
 
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