My List of Steels in order for Edge Retention So Far

black mamba said:
Jim, the BG-42 SOG is on its way. Should arrive Friday or Saturday. Looking forward to your video test with it.
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Cool. :D

That should be interesting to see were it fits on the list. :D :thumbup:

Between that and the 2x 154CM blades it looks like a lot of cardboard cutting is coming.
 
Looks good. I'm interested to see where 154CM will stand.

D'you have any rough gauge on how large the difference between ZDP and VG10 is, Ankerson?
 
Ankerson, you provided information for a good discussion. Also you should be complemented for doing some testing. What you found out is that a variety of knives sharpened the same will cut a lot differently. This is good information mostly for your own use since you know which of your knives perform the best cutting cardboard. The testing I do-- I have concluded is mostly for my own use. If you share the information like you have it generates controversy since others will get different results even on the same knife and same steel just because they are testing differently. The point has been made by several here that you are testing the knives, not the steel. We all tend to say that this knife with this particular steel cut the best and rank all the others in order of performance but identified by the steel type. We tend to say like you did that the ZDP 189 knife cut the best so therefore it is the best steel. In that particular test in your hands, with that sharpening and that handle configuration, hardness, edge and edge profile, cutting that sample of carboard on that day on the basis of one test it was the best. I am not being critical of your testing, just trying to put it all in perspective.

I like to cut manila rope just because you get faster dulling and it tends to show up larger differences quicker. With the exact same knife configuration but with different steels it is still difficult to see small differences. For example I recently did some comparison tests with CPM S110V, CPM 10v, and CPM M4 all at the same hardness and there were no large differences like-- one blade cut 100 more cuts than another. For this reason I would say that they are in the same category. The differences lie in other areas like corrosion resistance and relative toughness and sharpening ability. Others here have mentioned it but blade thickness and grind geometry make a huge difference in cutting performance. Heat treating as well. I recently compared CPM S110V at RC 60 to CPM S110V at RC 64. They act like different steels. Also you can heat treat the same steel to different objectives. CPM 154 is a good example. Using the lower tempering range emphasizes corrosion resistance and toughness while the higher range hardness and wear resistance. I admire you for doing some testing and even more for putting the results out there. It is all good information but I guess what I am saying is that we have to be careful testing knives and coming to some conclusions on realative performance of knife steels. Phil
 
Just added BG-42 to the list.

It's a lot like S30V, gets a nice working edge on it. :)
 
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jim i expect the s30 & bg42 will test out close. when chris reeves switched from 42 to s30 he mentioned that s30 was only slightly superior.dennis
 
DennisStrickland said:
jim i expect the s30 & bg42 will test out close. when chris reeves switched from 42 to s30 he mentioned that s30 was only slightly superior.dennis
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For me BG-42 did a little better, but IMO they are the same unless one is really splitting hairs. :D
 
Phil Wilson said:
Ankerson, you provided information for a good discussion. Also you should be complemented for doing some testing. What you found out is that a variety of knives sharpened the same will cut a lot differently. This is good information mostly for your own use since you know which of your knives perform the best cutting cardboard. The testing I do-- I have concluded is mostly for my own use. If you share the information like you have it generates controversy since others will get different results even on the same knife and same steel just because they are testing differently. The point has been made by several here that you are testing the knives, not the steel. We all tend to say that this knife with this particular steel cut the best and rank all the others in order of performance but identified by the steel type. We tend to say like you did that the ZDP 189 knife cut the best so therefore it is the best steel. In that particular test in your hands, with that sharpening and that handle configuration, hardness, edge and edge profile, cutting that sample of carboard on that day on the basis of one test it was the best. I am not being critical of your testing, just trying to put it all in perspective.

I like to cut manila rope just because you get faster dulling and it tends to show up larger differences quicker. With the exact same knife configuration but with different steels it is still difficult to see small differences. For example I recently did some comparison tests with CPM S110V, CPM 10v, and CPM M4 all at the same hardness and there were no large differences like-- one blade cut 100 more cuts than another. For this reason I would say that they are in the same category. The differences lie in other areas like corrosion resistance and relative toughness and sharpening ability. Others here have mentioned it but blade thickness and grind geometry make a huge difference in cutting performance. Heat treating as well. I recently compared CPM S110V at RC 60 to CPM S110V at RC 64. They act like different steels. Also you can heat treat the same steel to different objectives. CPM 154 is a good example. Using the lower tempering range emphasizes corrosion resistance and toughness while the higher range hardness and wear resistance. I admire you for doing some testing and even more for putting the results out there. It is all good information but I guess what I am saying is that we have to be careful testing knives and coming to some conclusions on realative performance of knife steels. Phil
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Thanks for replying. :D

I would love to use rope, but you have to buy that. :D :eek:

Cardboard is free unlike my Stones and Polishing tapes. :thumbup:

I do think the tests would be more conclusive if I used rope or some other material that would wear on the edges faster so I could see them dulling faster than they seem to. That would also take out the blade profile part of it for the most part.

There have been some blades that sliced a lot better than others, the Mules are cardboard cutting machines IMO.
 
It's not just the faster wear.
Rope cutting is dependent on edge angle, but not on the rest of the blade profile.
Cardboard is dependent on the rest of the blade profile.

Edited to add: and manila rope is inexpensive. I buy 50-foot lengths for $6.
 
knarfeng said:
It's not just the faster wear.
Rope cutting is dependent on edge angle, but not on the rest of the blade profile.
Cardboard is dependent on the rest of the blade profile.
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Yeah, that's what I said. :thumbup: :D
 
knarfeng said:
It's not just the faster wear.
Rope cutting is dependent on edge angle, but not on the rest of the blade profile.
Cardboard is dependent on the rest of the blade profile.

Edited to add: and manila rope is inexpensive. I buy 50-foot lengths for $6.
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I thought it was more than that for some reason.... :confused:

I will have to look again. :thumbup:
 
I got something like 1 dollar for 30 feet. At an army surplus store. Comes in bales of 200m though.
 
Phil Wilson said:
I like to cut manila rope just because you get faster dulling and it tends to show up larger differences quicker. With the exact same knife configuration but with different steels it is still difficult to see small differences.
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I agree that if you want to test steel using a rope cutting test, you should use the exact same knife configuration.

It would be interesting to see two blades tested, identical primary grind angle, and equal edge angle, but one having a bevel thickness 3 times larger than the other. I see that much variance in various knives, after all. I suspect they would not yield equal edge retention test results cutting manilla rope.
 
knarfeng said:
It's not just the faster wear.
Rope cutting is dependent on edge angle, but not on the rest of the blade profile.
Cardboard is dependent on the rest of the blade profile.

Edited to add: and manila rope is inexpensive. I buy 50-foot lengths for $6.
Click to expand...

In addition you may position blade on rope better to test desiered portion of it only.

Is it 1/2"? I have mine $.44 feet, so I get 50' for $25.

Thanks, Vassili
 
I got in 50" of 1/2" manila rope the other day so I will start a new cutting series here soon. Working on a testing method now, will likely test until the blades don't slice paper counting the cuts for each knife tested. Something like blocks of 20 cuts testing to see if they still slice paper after each block of cuts.

Will have to figure out if I can dull them enough within my 5 min time limit (Camera limit) or not. I am thinking likely not, but I will see what happens.
 
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Any updates on this?

Ankerson, you may want to check your rope for consistency. I find my ropes have some spots where they are
-thicker
-have harder fibers (for some reason)
-softer
-have some grit, etc inside.

Not sure if this applys to yours as well, but it's worth a check.

Oh, and make sure you store them well-should be a no-brainer but don't ever get them wet, or they'll be easy to cut and really smelly.
 
Any chance of testing Bark River's A2 and CPM 3V
I am very interested to know where they fall in your
steel list. And how the slicing compares to Spyderco's mules.

Ooops, the Bark River knives are convex grind so
reprofiling might be lot of work.

Thanks for sharing you hard work so far!
 
wongKI said:
Any updates on this?

Ankerson, you may want to check your rope for consistency. I find my ropes have some spots where they are
-thicker
-have harder fibers (for some reason)
-softer
-have some grit, etc inside.

Not sure if this applys to yours as well, but it's worth a check.

Oh, and make sure you store them well-should be a no-brainer but don't ever get them wet, or they'll be easy to cut and really smelly.
Click to expand...


I am working on a few things still. :)

I am finding the rope will dull the blades much faster than cardboard sofar.
 
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