my mom is insane

[Jeff Clark]

At this point you should not buy any knife at all. In case you can't take a hint your mom is afraid of your intentions and/or self control. If you can't read her signals (which are as conspicuous as airport landing lights) and continue to try and get a knife she will think that you are crazy and/or out of control. You should be trying to talk her down at this point, not trying to get around her. Your quality of life is much more jeopardized by this problem with your mom than by any problem you are likely to face that you can fix with a knife.

You need to back away from any talk about self defense, either with a knife or without a knife. It sounds like she is now equating concern with self defense as an interest in violence. The people at school and DSS are likely to take the same attitude. Being a girl who wants a knife probably seems like a mental aberration to her anyway. If you have been involved in fencing that probably just makes you seem more off-center.

At some later date I suggest an Adventurer model SAK. This has a 3.25 inch locking blade, but is a red-handled Swiss Army Knife. It is big enough for anything you are likely do need to do and has a locking blade. I will not generally get people excited. I've never had any problem with mine closing on my fingers. If you like serrated edges you can even get an official Boy Scout model which should be politically correct:
http://www.knivesplus.com/VN-55602-Victorinox.HTML

By the way. You should not try and relate your fencing technique too much to a pocket-sized knife. Poking rather shallow holes in an attacker with a pocket knife is not nearly as effective as running someone through with a sword. While you might inflict a fatal injury it is not likely to incapacitate an assailant fast enough to protect you from further aggression. You should consider other self defense options. You should also look for ways to distance yourself from dangerous situations.

 

[linzoy]

So you had the SAK then you got something else? What did you get?

That would be quite unusual if your mother got upset over a multitool, my first was a LM Wave so I did really show my parents I liked knives for utility purposes.

The SAK is the only knife I've bought. I've just been thinking about buying something else. I had my uncle's old hunting knife also.

My mom didn't get upset over the swiss army knife the first 5 years I've owned it. She was there when I bought it, I was 12.

I know this sounds noobish but does anyone know if there's any way to get rust off a blade that's 100% coated in rust? I went looking around the basement and garage and found 3 other knives which probably belonged to my grandmother. One of them is a cheap multitool made in china. It's not rusted but the edge of the blade is dull and the tip is bent. The other two knives are coated with rust.

lol that would be great. hey ma... look what I got!

side note: why don't you help her out in the kitchen and take care of the chopping and slicing. show her your proficiency in knife handling and maybe then she will be more inclined to allow you a knife of your choice. just a thought.

I've already done this a lot.

You cut yourself with your sak?

it sounds like you should stay with the slip joint action and learn good knife handling skills. A lock on a blade is false confidence as sometimes locks will fail if the knife is being used in an abusive or improper manner. Saftey devices are not a replacement for skill.

Well, I was 13 when I cut myself with the knife. I was carving wood and I was carving twords myself. It sliced into my finger. It didn't have much to do with the lock, but if I was stupid enough to cut myself that one time, I can't say that I feel safe doing anything like that with a slipjoint. I knew how I was supposed to do it when I was carving wood, I just overestimated my ability to control the blade.

Before I read today's e-mail from linzoy my advice would have been to join Boy Scouts and learn how to use knives and a whole lot more.

After today's e-mail(s) from linzoy I don't think that would work.

Don't get a knife and try to hide it. Trust is very important, and once lost is very hard to re-earn.

I still have a feeling that there's more to your story. Most parents will not react in such an extreme manner to a 17 year old child saying that they want to carry a knife in a safe and legal manner.

My advice is to change your focus from telling your mother that you want a knife to something more like telling your mother that you want to learn about knife safety and how to care for and use a knife. This is much more positive and provides a means of showing your mother that you have skills and maturity to use a knife safely. Once you've proven you have these skills, then maybe she'll feel more comfortable with you carrying a knife. Consider carrying a little Victorinox Classic Swiss Army Knife. It is still handy and the size may be small enough to keep your mother from being upset. Here is a great one on-line:
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=VN53208

Though created for pre-teen boys in Cub Scouts, I would strongly suggest you work with your mother to learn the skills associated with earning the Cub Scout Whittling Chip card, which the boys need in order to be allowed to carry pocketknives at events:

My mom was in the girl scouts when she was a kid, and back then they gave knives to all the girls and taugh them knife safety. I think it's pathetic if they still do the same thing in boy scouts and stopped doing it with girl scouts.

i know im not a frequent poster but id like to mention a few things.
-where are you located? what are the knife laws like there? it could just be that your mom, like alot of people are uninformed about the legalities of carrying a knife(for tool use) and is only looking out for you.
also there was a thread on here a while ago about "things said to you by a non knife nut" or something along those lines, it had a lot of great explainations people used on folks who made uninformed comments about our tools.
i know what its like, just keep at it, eventually shell come around

I live in massachusetts. Where I live a folding knife is not considered a weapon.

I doubt the salt would work for her. My mother was scared by the "serrations" on my one-handed trekker. And she isn't nearly as bad as linzoy's.

Now that I think about it was probably my attempt at buying a one handed trekker that started to scare my mom. About a week ago I tried to buy one on ebay under her account. I was planning to pay my mom back for it but since I don't have a credit card I needed her to do the paypal stuff. She said she would but then she refused to do it. She said the locking blade made it a good weapon and the black looked evil. The person I bought it from worked for a non profit organization that helps sick cats, but she still wouldn't buy it. Later I changed my mind anyways and decided that one SAK is enough, so it's not a big deal.

I've talked to my mom calmly and rationally and everything. The problem is that my mom seems normal. She says she trusts me and respects me. Maybe she really does, maybe she just hates weapons and can't bear the fact that they're in her house. Maybe she's not concerned about what I'll do with them. I dobut it though. She told me that the meeting she had with my teachers had nothing to do with me. I don't know how I'm going to believe that. It was at my school and at the same day it happened she hid a bunch of my stuff. So not only am I criminally insane but she also thinks I'm a moron.

 

[madcap_magician]

Have you simply asked your mom to summarize her objections to you having a pocket knife? If you know her exact reasoning, or lack thereof, behind you having a knife, you can address her points in return. If she has very little reasoning, there's probably nothing you can do, and if you cannot get her permission to do that, then respect her wishes and wait a year. My parents aren't entirely comfortable with my knife thing, but my dad's an Eagle Scout and is fine around knives, and both my parents recognize that I'm an adult and make my own decisions, and the don't view knives as weapons. It's just that they think I should bow to sheeple sensibilities and I say screw 'em. In any case, you aren't an adult quite yet, so if you are forbidden to have a knife, don't. I'm not taking your parents' side here or anything, I think your mom, from what you say, is a little loony, but she's still your mom.

 

[ckj]

The best way to get rid of rust is to run a current through the blade (I don't remember in which direction though, that would involve me doing a little math) that will reverse the oxidation process (rusting) and restore the blade. I'm not sure how well steel holds up to this but I know copper and a few other metals do great. Another option is to sand/file it off (make sure to get every last bit) and then immediately coat it in some sort of oil to protect the blade. Be warned, once steel or iron starts rusting it is very hard to stop and get rid of it.

I would definately ask her to outline her thought process on the matter of knives and if she can not, well I wouldn't be holding my own parents in high esteem if that did that. And if you can get her to give her opinion, then you can argue with her (as an adult) to try and agree with you. And if for some reason this does not work out, well, you're 17 not much more to go right?

Unless you commute to college like me.

 

[Lurp]

To remove rust I usually use Flintz which is used for rust removal and the polishing of metal. Works great for me (usually small amounts of rust) but not sure how good it will work for a whole blade coated in rust.

On the knife thing with your mom I would suggest you try and talk to her sensibly about it and try to prove your point by acting responsibly around knives. I actually got my first knife when I was about 5 and I did something stupid with it and had it taken away by my dad. Then when i got a little older (about 9) I proved to my parents that I was responsible enough to have another knife and use it right so my father let me buy one. I have been carrying a knife on me everyday since them (except in school) up until now. with parents its all about trust and responsibility. You just need to show her that you are responsble enough to have one and if that doesnt work and your mom just doesnt want "weapons" around...well then we know why she lives in Massachusetts.

 

[carrot]

My dad supports my interest (not yet an obsession) in knives. I have a Gerber LST, Leatherman Micra, SAK Spartan, and SAK Original SD laying on my desk at the moment. My mom's not too hot about them, but she doesn't argue because she knows I'm careful and I don't ever take uncalculated risks. She put her foot down when I showed her the Mini-Griptilian though. Well, next year when I'm in college I'll just have to obtain the Mini-Grip myself. I EDC the Victorinox Original SD because I can't afford to get in any more trouble this year but still need a decent tool (had a minor altercation with another student -- he attacked me first). Generally SAKs are not really considered dangerous weapons, especially not the smaller ones. I agree with the suggestion of a locking SAK if it'll make your mother feel any better about it.

Maybe you can talk to your dad and together you can work it out with your mom. She could be afraid you've got someone on your hit list, or perhaps she's afraid letting you touch any more knives will spurn you to go commando and join the Marines.

I think it's definitely a trust issue -- you should look back and consider how and when your mother lost trust in you, and how to regain it.

As for the self-defense bit, I'd rather have OC spray and a few good self-defense techniques under my belt (well-placed kicks and jabs) than be forced to rely on a knife. A little blade is not necessarily going to take someone down fast enough to save you when you need it. But practicing wielding the knife (either with a trainer or closed) wouldn't hurt either.
Related link: http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11967

 

[HoB]

Creating a safe environment for a 17 year old???? What's next, making all electrical outlets baby safe? Well, I am very sorry for your sake. My advice would be to try and talk to her, and once she allows you to hold a knife, let her see you using a knife for common, useful, everyday things. That usually helps.

Everytime, I return home, I am sharpening all kitchen knifes, which is usually so welcome, that they couldn't care less what I have in my pocket. But then again I am a bit older than you and haven't lived with my parents for well over a decade.

Hang in there!

P.S.: When my brother and I were younger, we would play knights a lot and were thrashing violently at each other with long and heavy sticks while holding wooden shields....so much for a safe environment . Its all part of growing up.

 

[Nadrek]

Interesting.
I would first note that at 17, you're not far from 18, and if you're looking at college, look at a college that's too far to commute. However, note that we've had stories of students who were almost kicked out for wooden letter openers in dorms. Perhaps a state that's a little more blade friendly, and in a relatively rural area? Wait, have patience.

That said, talking it over with your father or other relatives of that generation or older might give you insight - in particular, they may have ideas of your mom's reasoning that she doesn't share with you, and/or doesn't know herself.

Having her come onto this forum I'd say would be a mistake, when the first several responses included advice on what knives to hide from her, despite other good advice as to trust.

There is some risk involved, though rather minor at age 17 due to timing, but you could also talk to DSS about their views, since your mother has already talked to them. Tool use is a good reason - I use my EDC's more for cutting open boxes, opening letters, and trimming loose threads on clothing than anything else.

You mentioned, in various replies, 'black looks evil' as well as '... weapon culture...'. The former is entirely irrational, if not uncommon, and would argue that a pretty colored knife would help. I'd also note that I don't think knife color will affect any professional DSS opinion on the matter. The latter is much more interesting, and bodes ill for self-defense in general.

I would support asking your mom to go over why she doesn't want you to have a knife, and to relate those points to others. It's unlikely to help, but would seem unlikely to hurt more than any other discussion about knives.

Now, if you can get a knife _given_ to you by a relative, openly - and preferably by a relative your mom respects - then you have a different category of issue. Grandparent, perhaps?

 

[GarageBoy]

WD40 is a way to quickly remove rust, then oil it with real oil and hit it up with some polish.

OC spray isn't legal here in NYC for all persons under 18, ironic, since most kids that get beat up after school are under 17

 

[hicomp2]

Hey Kid; If the school or "DSS" (did you mean Department of Human Services?) gives you a psychological evaluation, do yourself a favor. DO NOT mention using the knife in self defense. Tell them you wanted it as a tool, for hiking, etc. But DO NOT mention using it as a weapon. If you do, you will be opening up a can of worms. Tell your Mom or others if they ask you that you were only joking, pertaining to using it as a weapon. To some people, knives are more fearsome weapons than guns. In the USA we are not a knife culture, at least not like we were 150 years ago. I would also consider learning some form of unarmed self-defense at this point. You are now a "heat seeker" and your Mom and the school WILL be watching you, searching you, etc. If you are found with a knife, you may end up with a criminal charge from your school's SRO. Lay low for a while... out of sight, out of mind. Wait a year, then approach her again, with a varity of reasons for needing a knife (hiking, Treking, survival, etc.), self defense not being on the list.

 

[linzoy]

DSS wasn't actually called, but they threatened to call DSS a lot so I made the mistake of thinking they actually called them.

Interesting.Now, if you can get a knife _given_ to you by a relative, openly - and preferably by a relative your mom respects - then you have a different category of issue. Grandparent, perhaps?

The hunting knife was given to me by my dad. It wasn't really given to me though, he just let me keep it in my room. It really belongs to my little cousin since it was her father's knife. Anyway it's considered bad parents by these people to give a kid a knife so the fact that he gave it to me is actually what caused the problem. It's funny that you bring up the fact that I'm almost 18, because I just talked to my mom a couple minutes ago and she said she wants to try to get custody of me when I'm older than 18. Why does she want to keep me around if I'm such a threat to her personal safety?

I feel guilty for all this whining but I am really angry about this. I finally have a good idea of what is going on, but it's been really difficult to get this information out of my parents. My dad told me most of this stuff, and my mom screamed at him for telling it to me. She says she wants to prevent conflicts and arguments. It's strange because she's complained a lot about her parents never allowing her to disagree with them about anything but she's doing the same thing to me.

When my mom went to my school to say that she's worried about safety in the home the school was under legal obligation to contact DSS but they called my sister's school first and they said it wasn't a big deal. They want to take care of the "problem" themselves for some reason.

They had a meeting with my parents today. They threatened to take away me and my sister because my dad refused to sign a form saying he'll lock up and hide all sharp objects in the house. This include letter openers, saws, everything. My mom acted like this was ok. My dad says I was seriously misrepresented at that meeting. I'll never know for sure because I wasn't there and no one told me this was happening, but I can believe I was misrepresented if they're trying to limit my acsess to letter openers and saws. I never even touch the friggin saw. Even if I was insane only a moron would try to SAW SOMEONE TO DEATH.

Like I said before a few minutes ago my mom in an unusual act of honesty decided to tell me something that was going on in my life and said she wanted to keep custody of me after I was 18. She could have done this without telling me. Does she want my permission or something? Does it really matter if I say no? I did say no, but why is she asking? I don't get it. There's nothing I can do.

 

[hicomp2]

How can she "keep you in custody" after you reach 18? She would have to have you declared by the Court insane or unable to make legal decisions, etc. I'm wondering why the school is reacting in this manner. Is there a history of domestic violence, absconding, mental health issues or cutting? It sounds to me like your Dad needs to seek out legal advice ASAP. As far as rust, steel wool, or an old rag with oil will work. Just keep buffing the blade and rubbing it out. Steel wool is best for tough rust.

 

[Kazeryu]

I think there's either something else in the picture or else your mother is slightly paranoid; which is all the more reason to NOT do anything behind her back.

 

[Nadrek]

Like I said before a few minutes ago my mom in an unusual act of honesty decided to tell me something that was going on in my life and said she wanted to keep custody of me after I was 18. She could have done this without telling me. Does she want my permission or something? Does it really matter if I say no? I did say no, but why is she asking? I don't get it. There's nothing I can do.

Actually, that's not true. While this advice is relatively trivial, and you may or may not have heard it before - it's still good advice.

A) If you're concerned, find a lawyer. This is unlikely to be practical for you at this time, but keep it in mind for later.

B) Look up the law. Spend time at a major library, look up state law first, then federal, I'd say. Do a google search with "<your state name> Statute" - look for sites that are .gov or .us. Try Findlaw.com. Dry, boring stuff, overall - but if you're concerned, knowledge is your best bet.

C) Keep up conversations, get information, and see if you can figure out who agrees with your mom in part or in whole.

D) Have patience. It could be worse - you could be 12, several years away from being 18.

E) Realize that she can't keep custody as if you were a minor once you're 18 without quite a lot of paperwork, as well as - if my guess is right, which it should be, but look it up - an evaluation of you by a licensed mental health professional, and a judge's agreement.