My number came up for a new 3.5" XM-18. Is $625.00 too much?

Ankerson said:
Have you seen most of the knives these guys make, most of them are based on a design, but are all different, hardly Production blades.

I know about Custom knives so don't even go there.... ;)
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I'm just using your criteria for the term. Rick has a bunch of different designs. He's also made many, many variations of the XM-18s. He's made some with anodizing, many of them have different grinds, etc. He just focused on the XMs because that's what people wanted. Earlier you said that he wasn't making customs because customers couldn't order to spec and now you're changing that definition. All of the knives that the makers I named had models that were more successful than others. All of them had designs that they made more of than others. Consider how many SnGs and SMFs that Duane Dwyer and Mick Strider have made or the amount of Madd Maxxes DDR has made. Or how many CQC-6s Emerson has made. Some vary, some are designed similarly.
 
Kaizen1 said:
I'm just using your criteria for the term. Rick has a bunch of different designs. He's also made many, many variations of the XM-18s. He's made some with anodizing, many of them have different grinds, etc. He just focused on the XMs because that's what people wanted. Earlier you said that he wasn't making customs because customers couldn't order to spec and now you're changing that definition. All of the knives that the makers I named had models that were more successful than others. All of them had designs that they made more of than others. Consider how many SnGs and SMFs that Duane Dwyer and Mick Strider have made or the amount of Madd Maxxes DDR has made. Or how many CQC-6s Emerson has made. Some vary, some are designed similarly.
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The guys you are talking about are Custom makers. :thumbup:

Rick is a Custom maker, but once you have a Standard model that is the same as the last 500 that was made then it becomes a production blade.

Yeah I know Rick has made various knives and has for a long time now. Now the ones he sells at the shows, that are different than the standard cookie cutter XM-18 are customs.

There is a fine line there from Custom to Semi Production (Semi Custom) to full blown production.

The Standard XM-18 is a production knife, limited production, but still production.
 
Ankerson said:
The guys you are talking about are Custom makers. :thumbup:

Rick is a Custom maker, but once you have a Standard model that is the same as the last 500 that was made then it becomes a production blade.

Yeah I know Rick has made various knives and has for a long time now. Now the ones he sells at the shows, that are different than the standard cookie cutter XM-18 are customs.

There is a fine line there from Custom to Semi Production (Semi Custom) to full blown production.

The Standard XM-18 is a production knife, limited production, but still production.
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So, just so I understand how you're using the terms, the main reason you consider the Gen 3 XMs "production" is because there are so many of them? It doesn't matter that he has his hand in making so much of the knife (ie, everything except the primary grind)? If he outsourced all of the work that he typically does, that wouldn't make any difference to you?
 
Kaizen1 said:
So, just so I understand how you're using the terms, the main reason you consider the Gen 3 XMs "production" is because there are so many of them? It doesn't matter that he has his hand in making so much of the knife (ie, everything except the primary grind)? If he outsourced all of the work that he typically does, that wouldn't make any difference to you?
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No, it would still be a production knife.

What some call Customs aren't really Customs, they are more like Semi Customs or Limited Production.

Mick Strider and Duane Dryer have a hand in making SmF's and the other Strider knives, are they all Customs too just because they have a hand in it?

They are Limited Production knives as all Striders are.

Now yes they do make full blown Custom knives too, but they are different.
 
I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm asking if you make any distinctions between someone "having a hand" in making a knife and someone making/doing everything except for one thing in that process. I'm not asking if you consider that a custom, I think we've already established what your view is on that.
 
Kaizen1 said:
I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm asking if you make any distinctions between someone "having a hand" in making a knife and someone making/doing everything except for one thing in that process. I'm not asking if you consider that a custom, I think we've already established what your view is on that.
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No I don't.

Not when I have a few 100% full blown customs sitting right here in front of me.
 
Kaizen1 said:
Interesting. And I don't know about the other makers, maybe you do. Do you know if Strider, Dwyer or Emerson make all of the screws for all of their knives?
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Yes they make everything in house, not sure about Emerson.
 
Ankerson said:
Yes they make everything in house, not sure about Emerson.
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I was gonna ask if they were made by the makers of if they had someone else making them in house, but I think we've dragged this thread off too far in another direction as it is. Thanks Jim.
 
Kaizen1 said:
I was gonna ask if they were made by the makers of if they had someone else making them in house, but I think we've dragged this thread off too far in another direction as it is. Thanks Jim.
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Yeah we kinda took over the thread. :D

I think we need to give it back to the OP now. :) :thumbup:
 
Kaizen1 said:
I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm asking if you make any distinctions between someone "having a hand" in making a knife and someone making/doing everything except for one thing in that process. I'm not asking if you consider that a custom, I think we've already established what your view is on that.
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Indeed it does seem that the XM-18 differs from my Lionsteel SR-1 in that respect. I can understand Ankerson's gripe about it, as I also have somewhat of a gripe that I have little choice in what the blade steel/grind will be. I would however, consider it to be a custom knife, but rather one made to someone else's specifications rather than mine in particular.

Still, given that nobody held a gun to my head when I purchased the knife, that really seems like a minor detail that I would need to have accepted beforehand.

Not that I can really complain about the high resale value. If I decide that the knife just isn't right for me, I can sell it back for most of what I paid for it. The only other knife I can say that to would be my Dozier fixed blades.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Indeed it does seem that the XM-18 differs from my Lionsteel SR-1 in that respect. I can understand Ankerson's gripe about it, as I also have somewhat of a gripe that I have little choice in what the blade steel/grind will be. I would however, consider it to be a custom knife, but rather one made to someone else's specifications rather than mine in particular.

Still, given that nobody held a gun to my head when I purchased the knife, that really seems like a minor detail that I would need to have accepted beforehand.

Not that I can really complain about the high resale value. If I decide that the knife just isn't right for me, I can sell it back for most of what I paid for it. The only other knife I can say that to would be my Dozier fixed blades.
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I wasn't really griping. :D

All my point was is that if I am gonna pay that much for a folder ($625) I am gonna have a lot of say in what the specs are or I am not gonna buy it period. That said I don't buy customs off the tables at shows either, I talk to the said makers if I like the basic design. If I am going to pay that kind of coin for a blade I want it to be how I want it.
 
Ankerson said:
I wasn't really griping. :D

All my point was is that if I am gonna pay that much for a folder ($625) I am gonna have a lot of say in what the specs are or I am not gonna buy it period. That said I don't buy customs off the tables at shows either, I talk to the said makers if I like the basic design. If I am going to pay that kind of coin for a blade I want it to be how I want it.
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Then it's a damn good thing that Rick's "official" price is at the $400 range:D.

Still, even if I were to buy a custom, it would probably just be a carbon-copy of the XM-18 aside from a different steel of my choice. Though maybe I might go for a slicer grind instead. But again, because of my extreme desire to have the exact knife design of the XM-18, all custom options are closed to me unless Rick himself agrees to make it to my exact specifications, and I don't see why he would:confused:.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Then it's a damn good thing that Rick's "official" price is at the $400 range:D.

Still, even if I were to buy a custom, it would probably just be a carbon-copy of the XM-18 aside from a different steel of my choice. Though maybe I might go for a slicer grind instead. But again, because of my extreme desire to have the exact knife design of the XM-18, all custom options are closed to me unless Rick himself agrees to make it to my exact specifications, and I don't see why he would:confused:.
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I know what you mean there. :)

It's a good knife, but it just never tripped my trigger and yeah I have had more than one in my hands. Personal likes are different for everyone. :)

I would have to make a lot of changes in the design.
 
So... the handle, hardware is done by CNC, blade is ground by CNC. Everything is put together by a person and sharpened. Customer has no say in choice of materials or any specs. How is it a custom? I think it is a very good low-production knife. "Mid-tech" (whatever that it) at best.

When you compare XM to ZT055X the difference is pretty much that maker's hand did touch XM and maker's quality control is there. That's pretty much it ... unless I'm missing something.
 
effer said:
So... the handle, hardware is done by CNC, blade is ground by CNC. Everything is put together by a person and sharpened. Customer has no say in choice of materials or any specs. How is it a custom? I think it is a very good low-production knife. "Mid-tech" (whatever that it) at best.

When you compare XM to ZT055X the difference is pretty much that maker's hand did touch XM and maker's quality control is there. That's pretty much it ... unless I'm missing something.
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Tighter tolerances, more titanium, MUCH smoother opening and closing. Also, this might just be me, but I like the handle scales and blade and handle finish better.

I also have this nagging feeling that if I were to go the way of Donkey Kong and go ape on the knife by say, stabbing, hacking, and slashing at a nice solid tree, the XM-18 won't end up with as many loose screws afterwards.
 
How do you get your "number to come up"? Which online dealers can put you on a waiting list?
 
I see Rick's gen3 knives as semi custom. Everything is made in house, and rick still puts the edge on every knife that goes through his shop....:D
 
$625 is too much IMO. All that is happening is you are getting price gouged by your dealer. Same goes for anyone that pays over Rick's retail price which I think is $385. Get on a few dealer lists that will sell you the knife at Rick's suggested retail. However, you will need patience since it could take quite a while to get one.

If you want an XM-18 now, right this second, then I guess it is up to each individual on what they would pay for that. For me, if I were to decide to put $625 into a folder, I would definitely look into a custom build. YMMV Good luck!!:thumbup:
 
Ankerson said:
Because it's priced way more than it's worth. ;)

And from a dealer at that..... Gouging.....

I could understand if it was a custom knife, but it's not.

You can one heck of a lot of knife for $625.....

The XM-18 isn't a $625 knife, it's a $400 knife at best.
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It is "worth" what someone will pay for it...that's econ 101. Also, you can buy a heck of a knife for $100. It's simple, if any of us don't think product is worth the price, we can vote with our feet.

A bottle of Chateau Petrus can run North of $1000 and still I can find you a fantastic Bordeaux at a fraction of the price. Still, all the Petrus made is quickly sold.
 
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