My Pet Peeve _ Heat Treat is everything!

hammerfall said:
as for steel itself, the technique use to manufacturing the steel in the steel mill is far more important than the later HT. like VAR, ESR, powder metallury and the forging technique does to the ingots. maybe your guys never have to worry about this part nor pay any attention to it. but for same type of steel, the better quality, the better potential the heat treatment can bring up. heat treatment is like train your dog. you can train your Chihuahua to be very aggressive and might chase off a 2 month scared rottweiler puppet. but she just can't match the 3 month one.
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this is one of the reasons that i buy the best steel i can (even is its 2x the normal cost) its never that big of a cost in the finished blade. im even really wastefull in the fact that i dont forge to shape ( i stand more chance of messing it up then making it right with my forging skills)
right now im working on getting the last of the ESR 52100 that carpenter steel has from a arospace batch (called B52 )
 
For the most part, how you play them. After a certain point they become critically dependant upon eachother.
 
butcher_block said:
right now im working on getting the last of the ESR 52100 that carpenter steel has from a arospace batch (called B52 )
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Butch, the bar of 52100 that I flattened on the power hammer is supposedly ESR 52100 -- there's a seller on Ebay that has a seemingly endless supply.

I was going to ask you if you forge a pre-form of the hollow on the straight razor, but it sounds like you just grind the shape.
 
ask any good poker player and they will tell you if you always rely on the cards to win you will never win.
 
But you can also win in poker by bluffing. I am not sure if this applies to a knife...unless it is never actually used:)
 
hammerfall said:
Sometimes i see guys push too hard on knife making, trying to bring up a "perfection". well lets say that is dangerous, since perfection belongs only to God himself, and you get too close to it, He may send a thunder bolt and take you with him.
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Perfection is boring... ;)
 
Playing cards is playing a game.
A pro knows all the stats and uses statistics to use the cards the best way possible. Though bluffing still happens.
 
Poker is not that much like knife making. Bluffing in limit games is more limited. But in No-limit and Pot-Limit games it is quite extensive. (I played about 1.5 million hands online before the US shut the big sites down April 16 2010). The stats for a winning hand are important and the stats for a successful bluff are perhaps even more important which involves your opponents psychology, weaknesses, position, opponents range of likely cards, etc. At the highest level, you are playing the player and their cards as much as you are playing your own cards in no limit games.

Well, maybe it is a lot like knife making.

David
 
Rick Marchand said:
Sadly, it probably applies to knifemaking more so than poker.... lol
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Come on Rick

Please share your list of all of these knifemakers who are bluffing.

It would be a community service :)
 
Will52100 said:
The only thing I would add is that the highest performance steel out there with a poor heat treat can be beaten by the simplest old stand by like 1084 with an excellent heat treat, all else being equal, such as shape and geometry.
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This is a pet peeve of mine, too... 1084 being relegated to an ol' standby because it's composition also has the advantage of being eutectoid.

1095 Excellent Steel :D
C 0.90-1.03
Mn 0.30-0.50
P 0.04 (max)
S 0.05 (max)

1084 Beginner (ol'standby) :o
C 0.80-0.93
Mn 0.60-0.90
P 0.04 (max)
S 0.05 (max)

The compositions intersect at the High/Low limits of carbon and 0.10 difference in Mn.
 
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The cards are the facts,... but not the rules.

Every game has it’s own rules.
 
Yeah.I agree....I think.
I may not have enough experience yet to agree, but I probably do agree with something that has been said in the last eight pages.
What about file knives ??
Sorry...............I had to ask.

I really admire the folks out there that are producing knives that work well and look nice.

I know alot of things............but I don't know........alot of other things.
 
silver_pilate said:
Tai, we should make and sell voodoo quenching dolls. Little self-sealing life like dolls filled with Parks 50, AAA, or canola....:D

--nathan
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Hahahhahah definitely. I would do that too at shows. But truthfully, A good heat treat CAN make crappy material better. And to the above who made comments about the torch heat and motor oil quench, YES! You can do a fairly reasonable job of that IF you know what you are doing as a smith or as a shop procedure. It requires a certain temp which incidentally creates a color. Japanese sword makers ONLY go by this color prior to quenching. A hardened knife is better than nothing but a properly heated and quenched edge goes a very long way in making a good cutting knife. I don't go around disparaging other knife makers that are selling their product. All that sniping between makers does no one good. Maybe you can suggest better shop practices in process control and better fitting of handles or guards as a start. (starts singing the ''Witch Doctor" song to himself...)

BTW...Butch? I LOVE the 'smashed hippie' G10 I got from you!
 
broe said:
Hahahhahah definitely. I would do that too at shows. But truthfully, A good heat treat CAN make crappy material better. And to the above who made comments about the torch heat and motor oil quench, YES! You can do a fairly reasonable job of that IF you know what you are doing as a smith or as a shop procedure. It requires a certain temp which incidentally creates a color. Japanese sword makers ONLY go by this color prior to quenching. A hardened knife is better than nothing but a properly heated and quenched edge goes a very long way in making a good cutting knife. I don't go around disparaging other knife makers that are selling their product. All that sniping between makers does no one good. Maybe you can suggest better shop practices in process control and better fitting of handles or guards as a start. (starts singing the ''Witch Doctor" song to himself...)

BTW...Butch? I LOVE the 'smashed hippie' G10 I got from you!
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Uh oh...Oh dear...uhh...umm...Oh no:foot:
 
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