My PLEA, Petition, Request to CRK

What will a "super steel" bring to a Sebenza that it cannot do now? Chris helped develop S35VN to give him a steel that suits his philosophy. Why run after others now just to be in vogue but give up on important principles in the process?

What I would like to see is a CRK flipper.
 
A Sebenza with a flipper actually makes me giggle. I seem to recall Chris expressing disdain for flipping knives years ago...

We all have wants, nothing wrong with that.
 
No thanks...

I have had every popular "super steel" in various custom knives over the years and they all eventually dull. Give me an Emerson or Chris Reeve that i can easily strop back to life. Only 2 knives i have had that surprised me with there edge holding capabilities and they were my Carter and Rockstead. Learn to sharpen and strop your knives and you realize how retarded the steel debate is.
 
hotbossa said:
Not necessarily. My point is that Chris Reeve Knives will do what they want to do. When they introduced the "Made in Idaho" stamp it was hands across America to get it removed. As you can see, nothing has changed and it is still there. Getting him to retool a knife that is already in production will be nothing short of an act of God!

As for super steels, you can keep them. Even if CRK were to use them the Rockwell will still be set low for ease of sharpening so what is the point? If you are using a super steel that needs 65 Rockwell and he is only willing to go to 58-59 then it is a waste.

Like I said....Good luck! :)
Click to expand...
:thumbup:
 
I'm old enough to remember when the Sebenza came with the latest and greatest. Who did titanium handled knives first? The locking method is called the Reeve Integral lock. Ats-34 was the best available stainless when Chris first started using it. He pushed for more with the change to the next, only customs were available with BG42...and the Sebenza. Sadly, in my opinion, while the Sebenza used to be cutting edge, like the first car to have power windows, lately everyone has caught up.

I'd love to see some of the newest steels available in the Sebenza, but established accompanies are much less likely to push the envelope. With Chris Reeve's business model, having the spa treatments, a super steel would be a good fit. His customers already send their knives to get refurbished/sharpened. A knife that keeps a great edge longer would work and then he gets paid to sharpen it.

Grizz
 
gdwtvb said:
I'm old enough to remember when the Sebenza came with the latest and greatest. Who did titanium handled knives first? The locking method is called the Reeve Integral lock. Ats-34 was the best available stainless when Chris first started using it. He pushed for more with the change to the next, only customs were available with BG42...and the Sebenza. Sadly, in my opinion, while the Sebenza used to be cutting edge, like the first car to have power windows, lately everyone has caught up.

I'd love to see some of the newest steels available in the Sebenza, but established accompanies are much less likely to push the envelope. With Chris Reeve's business model, having the spa treatments, a super steel would be a good fit. His customers already send their knives to get refurbished/sharpened. A knife that keeps a great edge longer would work and then he gets paid to sharpen it.

Grizz
Click to expand...

The sharpening and spa treatment are a free service
 
I really don't understand the obsession with those "popular" s90v, s110v, m390 steel. Funny thing is most of these people who are obsessed with these steels probably don't even use their knives to cut anything with. The s35vn sharpens easily and that's the main reason why it's their preferred steel.

Once I let my buddy see my newly acquired knife (not a crk) and he asked me, "How much was it?". I told him it was $800 and he asked, "What steel is it?". I said, "S35VN". He immediately replied with.... "YOU PAID $800 FOR S35VN??" In a surprised yet condescending tone.

Hell..... I have a $3000 knife made with 154cm steel. People need to get off the super rare uber awesome steel bandwagon.... IMO.
 
gdwtvb said:
I'm old enough to remember when the Sebenza came with the latest and greatest. Who did titanium handled knives first? The locking method is called the Reeve Integral lock. Ats-34 was the best available stainless when Chris first started using it. He pushed for more with the change to the next, only customs were available with BG42...and the Sebenza. Sadly, in my opinion, while the Sebenza used to be cutting edge, like the first car to have power windows, lately everyone has caught up.

I'd love to see some of the newest steels available in the Sebenza, but established accompanies are much less likely to push the envelope. With Chris Reeve's business model, having the spa treatments, a super steel would be a good fit. His customers already send their knives to get refurbished/sharpened. A knife that keeps a great edge longer would work and then he gets paid to sharpen it.

Grizz
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
The Logical One said:
I really don't understand the obsession with those "popular" s90v, s110v, m390 steel. Funny thing is most of these people who are obsessed with these steels probably don't even use their knives to cut anything with. The s35vn sharpens easily and that's the main reason why it's their preferred steel.

Once I let my buddy see my newly acquired knife (not a crk) and he asked me, "How much was it?". I told him it was $800 and he asked, "What steel is it?". I said, "S35VN". He immediately replied with.... "YOU PAID $800 FOR S35VN??" In a surprised yet condescending tone.

Hell..... I have a $3000 knife made with 154cm steel. People need to get off the super rare uber awesome steel bandwagon.... IMO.
Click to expand...

1. I can sharpen my own knives, both free hand and with the new gadgets. In fact I have invested much of my hard earned money into different systems to get that super refined edge that most people outside the knife community have never realized.
2. I do use my knives a lot actually, and wouldn’t you know that when you use them a lot you have to sharpen them a lot. While S35VN (especially the way CRK does it) is easy to sharpen and maintain it does wear away faster than lets say S90V…

I'm sure someone will now comment about how CRK does offer blade replacements, and I'd say to them, yes I understand that and appreciate the fact that they do this.
 
The Logical One said:
The s35vn sharpens easily and that's the main reason why it's their preferred steel
Click to expand...

Without knowing the true reason, my best guess (this is just my opinion fellas) is Crk uses 35VN because it is easier to machine and get to look nice like we expect a CRK knife to look. I'm for sure a cRK fan, but I think the whole "ease of sharpening" is just 'spin', or at best a side benefit, of the steel being good to work with from a manufacturing standpoint. I think this is also the reason for the change from S30V to S35VN. It had everything to do with making a more refined product, for maybe less money, or at the same cost. The switch to S35VN was not really about the properties of edge of the steel at all (in my estimation). My observation is that the average CRK customer is paying for the fit and finish, and nice design, with edge retention as a lesser concern. Other makers focus on the dudes that want super steel choices (Spyderco, Rockstead etc).

Think about it: all those edge holding properties of a high hardness super steel also means every step of the blade making process takes longer, consumes more shop materials (discs drill belts dies), more labour, and is harder to get to look perfect. From the drills to the lapping, to the grinding, to the stonewashing, to the sharpening, all of these steps would take more time, more labour, more wear and tear, more electricity to run the machines, and so on. Even the abrasive used in the waterjet process. If CRK was putting out knives in high hardness super steels they would have to cost a lot more than 500 bucks, or be a lot less nice to look at. By standardizing on one easy-to-work-with steel, CRK can adjust their entire assembly line to deal with only one steel's properties, regardless of the actual knife they are running that day.

If you read Crucible's description of S35VN on the sales flyer for this steel it largely promotes S35VN as a version of S30V that is easier to machine. We know CRk was instrumental in the development of both those steels, so to go along with the idea that the only goal is to make the knives easy to sharpen is missing the big picture I would say. I think the story of CRKs choices in steels has a lot to do with running the factory at peak efficiency, and turning out a product that is pleasing to the eye, and a still reasonable price, with a steel that is good enough for most tasks, than it is about pursuing the best possible steel for a pocket folder.

With CRK you are not paying for advanced materials, you are paying for the process of making the knife, which if you've watched any of the shop tour videos, is a long and exacting process. If the value of a CRK essentially represents the effort to make it, you can see how trying to manufacture it out of some very hard steel, or a steel that does not finish to CRK levels of beauty easily, would drive the cost up.
 
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hotbossa said:
Not necessarily. My point is that Chris Reeve Knives will do what they want to do. When they introduced the "Made in Idaho" stamp it was hands across America to get it removed. As you can see, nothing has changed and it is still there. Getting him to retool a knife that is already in production will be nothing short of an act of God!

As for super steels, you can keep them. Even if CRK were to use them the Rockwell will still be set low for ease of sharpening so what is the point? If you are using a super steel that needs 65 Rockwell and he is only willing to go to 58-59 then it is a waste.

Like I said....Good luck! :)
Click to expand...

.......And I for one have never bought another CRK knife with the "made in Idao" stamp on it since!!!

I just kept all the knives made prior to that.

Customers also get to do what they want :)
 
The Logical One said:
I really don't understand the obsession with those "popular" s90v, s110v, m390 steel. Funny thing is most of these people who are obsessed with these steels probably don't even use their knives to cut anything with. The s35vn sharpens easily and that's the main reason why it's their preferred steel.
Click to expand...

Hey, no offense, but this sort of conjecture sounds a lot like:
"most of these people who buy CRKs probably don't even use their knives to cut anything"

I think the same can be said for expensive knives in general.

The obsession is simple, really. It is typical for people to want the perceived best thing they can get. Why would someone in America buy a car capable of speeds over 200 MPH? There are not many places you can do that sort of driving...
 
Roger that! Anyone who actually HAS USED the real super steels treated right and can actually sharpen and REALLY USED THEM knows the difference. But it's okay we know. That's all that matter. And for the folks that don't know, you can't miss what you never had!

unit said:
Hey, no offense, but this sort of conjecture sounds a lot like:
"most of these people who buy CRKs probably don't even use their knives to cut anything"

I think the same can be said for expensive knives in general.

The obsession is simple, really. It is typical for people to want the perceived best thing they can get. Why would someone in America buy a car capable of speeds over 200 MPH? There are not many places you can do that sort of driving...
Click to expand...
 
I'd love to see it, but wouldn't hold my breath. The biggest advantage to S35V is how easy it is to machine, even more so than S30V, I believe that is probably the biggest motivation for it's use in knives these days.

I can see the advantage in having soft S35V steel that dulls fast but is easy to sharpen for someone in the field with minimal gear for extended times. I'd imagine (hope) many that spend $400+ on a CRK know how to sharpen a knife and if they actually USE them would prefer they hold an edge longer. To me S90V, 204P, M4 isn't that much harder to sharpen with the proper tools than S35V but I have to sharpen it a lot less often. Harder to re-profile definitely, harder to touch up a dull edge on a sharpmaker, a couple extra minutes maybe.

I'm personally torn, I love the fit and finish of my CRK knives, the hydraulic smoothness of opening them always impresses me even after years of ownership. I have to admit though I find it disappointing that my sub $200 PM2 204P and S90V Manix 2 hold an edge significantly longer and it only takes a few extra strokes on the sharpmaker and either are as sharp as my S35V CRKs.
 
kidcongo said:
Without knowing the true reason, my best guess (this is just my opinion fellas) is Crk uses 35VN because it is easier to machine and get to look nice like we expect a CRK knife to look. I'm for sure a cRK fan, but I think the whole "ease of sharpening" is just 'spin', or at best a side benefit, of the steel being good to work with from a manufacturing standpoint. I think this is also the reason for the change from S30V to S35VN. It had everything to do with making a more refined product, for maybe less money, or at the same cost. The switch to S35VN was not really about the properties of edge of the steel at all (in my estimation). My observation is that the average CRK customer is paying for the fit and finish, and nice design, with edge retention as a lesser concern. Other makers focus on the dudes that want super steel choices (Spyderco, Rockstead etc).

Think about it: all those edge holding properties of a high hardness super steel also means every step of the blade making process takes longer, consumes more shop materials (discs drill belts dies), more labour, and is harder to get to look perfect. From the drills to the lapping, to the grinding, to the stonewashing, to the sharpening, all of these steps would take more time, more labour, more wear and tear, more electricity to run the machines, and so on. Even the abrasive used in the waterjet process. If CRK was putting out knives in high hardness super steels they would have to cost a lot more than 500 bucks, or be a lot less nice to look at. By standardizing on one easy-to-work-with steel, CRK can adjust their entire assembly line to deal with only one steel's properties, regardless of the actual knife they are running that day.

If you read Crucible's description of S35VN on the sales flyer for this steel it largely promotes S35VN as a version of S30V that is easier to machine. We know CRk was instrumental in the development of both those steels, so to go along with the idea that the only goal is to make the knives easy to sharpen is missing the big picture I would say. I think the story of CRKs choices in steels has a lot to do with running the factory at peak efficiency, and turning out a product that is pleasing to the eye, and a still reasonable price, with a steel that is good enough for most tasks, than it is about pursuing the best possible steel for a pocket folder.

With CRK you are not paying for advanced materials, you are paying for the process of making the knife, which if you've watched any of the shop tour videos, is a long and exacting process. If the value of a CRK essentially represents the effort to make it, you can see how trying to manufacture it out of some very hard steel, or a steel that does not finish to CRK levels of beauty easily, would drive the cost up.
Click to expand...

The two steels that I have actually used extensively as my EDC was a sebenza and xm18 with s35vn steel. They don't hold an edge forever, but they were seriously easy to sharpen to shaving sharp without much work. All it took was a few strokes on my honing rod and a few quick swipes on the sharp maker and that was it. I've even free hand sharpened the xm18 with great results.

When a knife has a blade steel that "lasts forever" without needing to be sharpened.... that means it'll be a heck of a lot harder to sharpen when you need to sharpen it. People get all giddy about these super steel because they're tough and holds an edge forever...... why? Because the majority of knife people don't know how to sharpen their knives.

The way I see sharpening a knife is like cleaning a gun. People don't like to do it.... most of my friends who own guns have never cleaned theirs even once. Just like how all of my buddies who carry knives have never sharpened them. Aside from the novelty of knowing that you own some exotic steel.... the other part of the allure is not having to sharpen it.
 
Your just plain wrong when it comes to me and my reasons. But hey. Justify it however you see fit. I sharpen all the steels and actually enjoy it since I'm good at it and it's so easy and quick. I'm glad you have your choice justified in your own head though.

The Logical One said:
The two steels that I have actually used extensively as my EDC was a sebenza and xm18 with s35vn steel. They don't hold an edge forever, but they were seriously easy to sharpen to shaving sharp without much work. All it took was a few strokes on my honing rod and a few quick swipes on the sharp maker and that was it. I've even free hand sharpened the xm18 with great results.

When a knife has a blade steel that "lasts forever" without needing to be sharpened.... that means it'll be a heck of a lot harder to sharpen when you need to sharpen it. People get all giddy about these super steel because they're tough and holds an edge forever...... why? Because the majority of knife people don't know how to sharpen their knives.

The way I see sharpening a knife is like cleaning a gun. People don't like to do it.... most of my friends who own guns have never cleaned theirs even once. Just like how all of my buddies who carry knives have never sharpened them. Aside from the novelty of knowing that you own some exotic steel.... the other part of the allure is not having to sharpen it.
Click to expand...
 
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