My problem with traditionals.

[Bob W]

I was thinking a one bladed knife about he size of a canoe or congress knife but narrower with a spear point and about 3 inches of blade...

The Boker Evergreen series (limited production with olive wood) had a slender one-blade trapper, and a one-blade pen knife. Looking at the pictures now to refresh memory, both of those had clip points though.

You might like the GEC #65 Ben Hogan which is a dressy single blade 4.25" closed.

This. :thumbup: And some were made with spear points.

The #15 was made in a single-blade spear point variation as well. Can't beat the quality of these, if you can find one.

One vintage knife you might like is the 61OT from Schrade. It's a three-blade stockman but in a long and slender frame. If you find an original USA-made example.

 

[Alnamvet68]

....and if you're really wanting to show that Wall Street power buying that resides in all those who work with the Bull, go for an ivory rendition....

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Kamagong, it has everything to do with traditionals. I was trying to pay traditionals their just respect. But I'm afraid the compliments only came off as seemingly backhanded. Inherent in the body of traditionals that are being produced today and pieces that have sustained the journey through time intact. You have incredibly, incredibly useful pocketable cutting instruments. Look at a trapper, stockman, jack and canoe. I'm going to leave out my favorite most revered traditional the peanut because as much as I love the peanut out of ALL of my knives it is lacking in size, lmao.

If one were to carry a trapper, stockman or canoe they could arguably do 95% of what any knife modern or traditional could do. Much like a simpler time when the knives were used in the field by the folks who were in those industries. Each of the knives are in essence molded to somebody's hand or fit for another person's uses perfectly. Traditionals have excellent design built into them. So the question is how do we go about owning so many perfect tools that all do the exact same thing perfectly?

We don't all go out and buy 5 minivans in different colors. Or go pick up the 4cylinder and 6 cylinder models of the same car? But with traditionals we do that and its perfectly ok. Or is it? That answer is personal like Pinnah said, who usually always has something wonderful to add about something that does personally bother me to one degree or another. I'm going to order Freedom of Simplicity. I enjoy philosophical books and find myself re-reading the Art of War, Book of 5 Rings, and Hidden by Leaves often. I think you can find a lot of that philosophy in the knives that you own and especially traditionals that like their namesake harken back to a different time, with more simplicity in life just as Pinnah has eloquently pointed out. (I say this after buying a Titanium framelock not three days ago). And then someone in the traditionals showed everyone their beautiful Purple Jigged Sodbuster Jr. and the alarms started going off in my head. I felt like a lemming about to jump over the cliff again.

PS 22, I wish we had stores like that around NJ but they don't really exist. I really would like to try to hit up a knife show at some point! The one store in NYC that has a ton of knives sell has only walls of showpieces of Japanese cutlery that sell for $3K and up.

Mini vans are just a tool. Traditionals can be just tools or whatever someone makes them out to be. I don't have 15 classic cars because I can't afford to. I can have 15 knives.

You can live with one knife if you want to. I don't want to live with one. I like having a few.

 

[pinnah]

Another thought and again, deeply, deeply personal stuff. No right or wrong part here...

IMO, there is a blurry line between collecting and simply hoarding. I'm deeply, deeply, deeply impressed with (to pick one person out of many) Codger's collections, especially his old Schrades. It's very clear to me that he's a devoted student of all things Schrade and I find that sort of study and attention to be both instructive and and inspiring. There's so much to learn. My trap is that I easily fall into a pattern of mindless, fear driven or even compulsive purchasing, like a man grasping at straws. For me (and only for me), that's where it turns into hoarding. I hoard old skis and bike parts. I'm not proud of that and am working on thinning out the parts bins and ski rafter in the barn. I could easily turn into a knife hoarder, by which I mean, just mindless acquisition. I could see aspiring to be a good collector, but that's a slippery slope. Like becoming a professional whiskey taster.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

If your kids hum the theme to Sanford and Son every time you bring something home, you might have an issue...

 

[Bob W]

IMO, there is a blurry line between collecting and simply hoarding.

I do both, and am quite happy with the results.

Although I consider myself a semi-serious collector of Schrade Old Timers, I'd be bored buying those exclusively.

 

[Halfneck]

Buy what appeals to you as long as it's within your financial means.

Luckily(?) I don't feel the need to have a huge collection. Sadly, being unemployed at the moment & poor, I can't even get the few I want. Maybe growing up poor made me where I can't stand to see something go unused? If I have a knife that sits for over a year it instantly becomes a prime candidate for trade or sale. Only reason I will hang onto it is if there's a sentimental reason. As an example, I own a pristine Helle Jubileum puukko from the 1970s that I scored in a trade at a gunshow. My boys were with me at the time, and my youngest son really likes the knife. I've been offered a lot of good trades for it, but I've held onto it so that one day I can give it to him.

There are also quite a few traditional patterns that just don't appeal to me. The only Stockman I own is a Schrade 34OT. The only reason I bought it was because it reminded me of the ones I had as a kid. I also owned a very nice Case Mini-Trapper that I bought while working at a hunting goods store in 1999. It was the nicest Case I saw come in during my time there, but up until last year it sat NIB and unused. Luckily my oldest boy really liked it so it made a nice gift to him.

If my financial situation was better would my collection be bigger? Yes it would - but I doubt it would be much bigger than now. The biggest change would be owning custom versions of the patterns I like.

 

[black mamba]

A good one for you to look into would be a GEC #92 Eureka Jack, 3-5/8" closed. The secondary coping blade (straight edge) would be mighty useful,
and it's right in between your current two for size.

 

[knowtracks]

Its not a true problem but just commentary.

But how do you guys get by as knife enthusiasts and buying all the patterns. I have to believe that even 75 years ago when folks would carry one slippie and just that one slippie until it could not be used anymore.

For me, the two traditional patterns that I own work so well for me and fit so nicely in the pocket and in hand that I cant picture getting more until the ones that I have get used up!

Either you get it or you don't. It's tomato or tomaato.
I have a t-shirt that say "Harley Davidson, if I have to explain why. You wouldn't understand."
I think that pretty well spells it out.

Dave

 

[ptradeco]

It continually goes back to consumerism for me. So for work, I work in and around Wall Street. I have done so for the past 15 years. Stuff like Rolexes and Mercedes are not status symbols in this arena as the low level sales guys have these toys. Anyhow I'll tell you guys a story without naming names. There was a certain publicly listed Company from Scotland that was a darling stock in the US from 1997-2004.

The CEO was so wealthy from being CEO, that he would only come into NYC to do a non deal roadshow (NDR). An NDR is when you take a public Company to go see the people at places who control investments at an investment firm like a mutual fund. Anyhow the guy wouldn't come into NYC unless he got to stay at the President Suite at the Plaza hotel. At the time it was $12,000 night. He one time needed to be in NYC and paid off the people who were staying there so that he could get the room. The people hadn't checked in yet, but they were bumped. The hotel bent over backwards for the guy. So I've been a little mentally damaged by being around this excess.

I also had a really bad paintball gun addiction at some point. I would buy guns that I didnt' even bother to take out of the box. The same with watches to a degree. As soon as I discovered knives about a year ago, I knew exactly what was happening in my mind, serotonin and endorphin began firing off signals like crazy in my brain. Just trying to keep the knife enthusiasm sane. So I guess what I'm asking, with traditional patterns being so well thought out, do you guys ever feel a little guilty for having too many in your collection when there are people starving in China? I know it must seem like a bloody idiotic question and I'm a tree hugger or something but in all seriousness has these thoughts ever floated through your mind?

So, you think you are the only well heeled guy to visit this forum? Really! You will find quite a few here that ...never mind, you would not get it anyway. Give us all a break please.

I probably just crossed some sort of line but it needed to be said. Do with me what you will. Sorry mods.

 

[cchu518]

You're missing the point if you are just focusing solely on the cost of knives.

 

[rune1279]

Its not a true problem but just commentary.

I dont know the history of every pattern out there but judging from the names of some of the most popular patterns they cant be very old. Maybe 150 years give or take.

It could be Darwinism in how the knives evolved - the more specialized ones died off and the ones that were more universally useful kept on being built.

Oh, I dunno -- GEC made a cotton sampler just last year, and you can still get melon testers, both of which strike me as absurdly specific patterns. Part of what I like about traditional knives is their role as tools and their tendency to reflect the culture and era that produced them (in terms of the work they were designed to do, just as much as the artistry and materials involved.)

Re: Consumerism (Where the rest of the thread is going.) It's a bit silly to collect pocketknives. ('silly' == 'unnecessary') Think about it -- it's silly to collect anything you only need one of, and both the ability and desire to do so are the mark of a consumerist society with significant surpluses to burn up. I don't think that is a bad thing in-and-of-itself. Oh, it's not the smartest thing to do with those resources, but I'm leery of treating 'not the best thing' as being equivalent to 'bad'. (I work in binary all day long and I refuse to treat the world like 1's and 0's on my own time.)

To me, the more dangerous thing is getting it wrapped up in your sense of identity. "I like traditionals because I think they are interesting/pretty/well-made/whatever" is one thing. "I like traditionals because I am traditional myself and I try to keep tradition alive" -- that's another, and exactly the kind of thing marketers want. Then you at least partly buy ProductX because it is a way of declaring who you are, and projecting that identity into the world. It's a very reliable backdoor into peoples' decision-making processes.

We've all been marinating in that Marketer's Message all our lives, so it shouldn't be surprising that we often confuse objects for what they mean to us. Even knowing that doesn't make me immune to the tendency. I am carrying this today:

I certainly didn't need it and I probably overpaid, but it reminds me of the Case my grandfather carried and therefore, indirectly, of him.

Mind you, he would have found that idea ridiculous, but he would've been glad to see I have a decent knife on me, at least.

--Mark

 

[cchu518]

Either you get it or you don't. It's tomato or tomaato.
I have a t-shirt that say "Harley Davidson, if I have to explain why. You wouldn't understand."
I think that pretty well spells it out.

Dave

Its a discussion and you stonewalling on your high horse does nothing. If you don't want to participate then whatever. Im just teying to get feedback to understand the thought process behind traditional buying.

 

[kamagong]

I still don't see how your OP has anything to do with traditional knives per se. This is a place for blade enthusiasts. There are guys with too many slipjoints, too many khukuris, too many balisongs, too many Sebenzas. The phenomenon you speak of is not isolated to this sub-forum.

 

[cchu518]

I still don't see how your OP has anything to do with traditional knives per se. This is a place for blade enthusiasts. There are guys with too many slipjoints, too many khukuris, too many balisongs, too many Sebenzas. The phenomenon you speak of is not isolated to this sub-forum.

I explained the OP more thoroughly if you follow the thread.

 

[ptradeco]

Already said enough.

 

[cchu518]

And you seem to be too focused on the significance of Rolexes, Mercedes, Wall St., and other trinkets. I can assure that those things to which you speak can be readily found here and more. There have been knives shown here more valuable than any of which you speak. Your attitude is an affront to many here.

Exactly! So it begs the question...is a knife a trinket or a tool?

Edit: Btw my sincerest apologies to anyone who feels offended by my comments. I thought that this would be a solid place to explore the subject of knife ownership especially traditionals. Traditionals have PROVEN designs. And because of that I had to ask myself these questions. ..in owning a proven design what reason do I have to go out and acquire more of the same thing when one works so well.

I didn't mean the thread to be insulting and I wasn't or ever did consider myself a wall st guy. My parents were crop farmers from China. And no matter what my situation was growing up my mother always treated us as if we were poor. So I do have some anxiety to be perfectly frank about being wasteful and spending more than I need to.

But...when you do work in financial services you see a lot of excess and its a far cry from my families peasant origins. I mean no disrespect to anyone on the forum for bringing up those stories. It wasn't a rub it in your face kind of thing. It was more of a shame on the industry that I work in.

I have a lot of fun here and I do enjoy traditional patterns.

 

[Alnamvet68]

Its a discussion and you stonewalling on your high horse does nothing. If you don't want to participate then whatever. Im just teying to get feedback to understand the thought process behind traditional buying.

The same thought process behind why a newly winged Naval aviator, or recent military academy grad goes out and buys a Corvette as his first major purchase, while a career officer or higher ranking enlisted with a few miles under his belt buys a house, buys or keeps an older SUV, and invests wisely. The new guy isn't thinking of his future long term; they both may need a vehicle, but neither needs a Corvette.

Exactly! So it begs the question...is a knife a trinket or a tool?

To keep it real simple and just plain real, a knife is a tool. If you buy knives and don't use them, then I will have to assume it's part of a collection/hobby. What exactly is your reason for owning a knife?

 

[kamagong]

I explained the OP more thoroughly if you follow the thread.

I have followed the thread. Some people have too many knives. OK. You think a person can get by with a stockman or a barlow. He can just as easily make do with a Military or a Sebenza.

I understand that you have a problem with materialism and consumer culture. Please explain how those things are specific to traditional knives.

 

[cchu518]

Traditionals have proven designs that have stood the test of time through at least 100 years and are the most copied in design which is the highest form of flattery.

I.e. a Stockman and a trapper is there a need to have both? They are both very perfect in modern use. I might be a little ocd but I like having a reason for my knife purchases...on a personal level.