My problem with traditionals.

[RobbW]

I use and enjoy a peanut and trapped pattern. That soddir jr is really appealing to me but I had already given away two soddies to forum members.

I was thinking a one bladed knife about he size of a canoe or congress knife but narrower with a spear point and about 3 inches of blade...

Or a GEC #15 Boy's Knife. I have a barehead, single-blade and love it. The bolster and liners are low-carbon steel, so they patina as will the 1095 blade, although at a slower rate. I have several knives to choose one, but for a few months this one has been going in my pocket. It is slimmer than the Peanut and thus unobtrusive, yet the longer blade is just right for many cutting tasks.

 

[harronek]

I'm not a collector , I'm a knife user . At work I use my knife numerous times each day , and most of the time it is for heavy duty cutting tasks . My knives get used , at times mildly abused , damaged but always maintained because just like any other piece of equipment I own they have to pull their weight and pay their way when required .
That heavy duty work environment isn't the place for Traditionals , I've tried carrying a slip joint in my pocket as well as the Leatherman on my belt , but found I was rarely using it . The times I pulled it out we're really just attempts to justify carrying it , and my Multitool would have easily done the job .
It took some truthful analysis on my part to come to that conclusion .
I only own a couple of Traditional slip joints now ( sorry just recounted , I own 3 ) and they get their turn of being carried on weekends and around the house where they are perfectly suited to the job .
I love simplicity and if I do buy another knife because something has taken my fancy , one of my existing knives will leave my possession , usually gifted to someone ( latterly in a sheath I've made ) .
My knives have to earn their keep .
I understand collectors of fine knives , but that's not me .

Ken

 

[jc57]

Traditionals have proven designs that have stood the test of time through at least 100 years and are the most copied in design which is the highest form of flattery.

I.e. a Stockman and a trapper is there a need to have both? They are both very perfect in modern use. I might be a little ocd but I like having a reason for my knife purchases...on a personal level.

I thought I understood your point but now I'm lost again.

Are you looking for a specific explanation of what situations call for one pattern over all of the others?

 

[Will Power]

If the OP has reached a level of satisfaction with his two traditional knives, so be it, he has become properly contented and needs no more.

But needs are relative.....when starving, we need food to stay alive, when fortunate we need food to enjoy and relish, thus cravings are born. I deplore inane consumerism and buying to be part of the herd or to follow trends that come and go, I can't see it provides solace. Wasteful extravagance is pitiful in the end. But, we often enjoy having a variety of Traditional patterns because of the choice factor and indeed aesthetics of the knives. Not to impress others or to receive envious remarks in the way a Wall St drone may feel the need to be part of a consumer wave or to get 'appreciation' from an audience, reassurance that they are trendy,powerful and indeed alive. Go and read American Pycho for confirmation of that!

I may like a Puukko one day or a single-spring knife the next, as for the guilt of carrying or buying more knives than 'needed' I just don't understand guilt, it's an excuse for bad behaviour, if I don't think it's right I don't do it and then wallow in some delusion about feeling guilty.

There are beautiful days in spring, in autumn, in summer and in winter but who is to say which is really the most beautiful? They are different but all beautiful, so too with the numerous patterns of traditionals, many faceted beauty it's one of their great strengths! to carry just one or two of this genre is to miss a lot.

Regards, Will

 

[22-rimfire]

a Stockman and a trapper is there a need to have both? They are both very perfect in modern use. I might be a little ocd but I like having a reason for my knife purchases...on a personal level.

I generally choose the Trappers myself. I don't think I own a stockman pattern knife any more. So, no, you don't need both. You get what you like. You might want to carry a thinner knife when you are at work and a larger one when you might be around home or out tramping around in the woods or the park.

I really like the Ben Hogan that I mentioned earlier. Mine has the spear point and burnt stag.

 

[Bigbobg]

Some people are collectors, some aren't.

 

[jc57]

The real question is the Muskrat. I guess it's for people who don't want to be bothered to have to pull the knife out in a particular way, so it's the same no matter which direction you hold it.

The pattern is so completely redundant, that's why I only have two of them.

 

[cchu518]

That one is very interesting btw, sorry I didn't respond about that earlier. Thanks for the heads up! I'm still on the fence about the brand right now. But I dont' even want to go into why.

I generally choose the Trappers myself. I don't think I own a stockman pattern knife any more. So, no, you don't need both.

I really like the Ben Hogan that I mentioned earlier. Mine has the spear point and burnt stag.

 

[link2derek]

I use my knives, and I collect the knives I use - traditionals and otherwise.

What I mean is that once I find a specific model/style/pattern that I like, I buy multiples -- one goes in/on my pocket/belt, and the others go in the safe. I do this because I worry that after using my user until it's time to replace it, I may no longer be able to find the same model/style/pattern that I have become so accustomed to carrying and using. I probably have a little OCD going on too, but I'm Ok with that... because I have a safe-full of sweet knives! Call me crazy....

 

[RobbW]

Exactly! So it begs the question...is a knife a trinket or a tool?

Yes, a knife is a trinket or a tool--that's the Chinese way to answer that question, isn't it? Not focus on the "or", but answer in the affirmative if one of the conditions is met.

For me, a traditional knife is both a trinket and a tool. It is a trinket in that I always prefer a nicer example of a pattern--something with bone or stag or nicely-grained wood, and something that's designed well and put together well. But it's also a tool that I use several times daily. So for me a knife has the utility of a tool, but it's also something more, something that is aesthetically pleasing to me that I can appreciate using.

In a way, the question you ask makes me think of Rorschach Tests. In the same way that the ink blots are what we make of them, traditional knives are also what we want them to be. For some, they are utilitarian tools and nothing else. They might get used to cut, but also scrape, pry and screwdrive. They might get (what I would consider) horribly abused and mangled or broken, but that is why the owner values them--to do what needs doing, and do it with one pocket tool. They also might get taken care of really well and only used to cut, but the owner sees them as tools and nothing more. Others might value knives as art, or as investments, or as statements of success or anticipated success, as commodity fetishes, as extensions of self, and so forth. These are all other extremes of the utilitarian's answer that a knife is only a tool. I think our various answers reflect how we perceive ourselves, and maybe what we are trying to convince ourselves and others that we really are.

I like traditional knives because they use a minimum of steel to get a job done. There is no excess, wasted steel; even when the edge dulls say, cutting cardboard, they still work really well because the blade stock itself is still so thin. By contrast, most modern knives have thicker steel and will not cut in this way as well, especially when the edge dulls (please note that this is my own preference and a common task for me, others use knives for very different purposes). This is the utilitarian side of me.

I also like traditional knives because there is an abundance of natural materials in the handles, and the handles look well integrated into the overall knife--not like they are screwed on as an afterthought. Traditional knives are designed really well. The shape of the handle and the integration of the natural materials into the overall knife just seem right. to me This is the "trinket" side of me.

I have about 20 slipjoint knives. Some I keep for sentimental reasons, some I keep because I frequently use them, and some I bought to try out, but have since found out they aren't for me and I'll eventually sell these or pass them along. 20 knives is too many for me and I will winnow that down a bit now that I know my own preferences. My folding knives range from Case-Bose and Dozier on the high end, to Case, Queen, Canal Street & GEC on the low end. For me, these are at affordable price-points that will not scare me from actually using the knives, but not so low that I feel I'm scrimping on quality construction and lessening my own enjoyment of using the knives. This paragraph says a lot about how I see myself and the tools that I use. I suspect that when we get to the core of collecting or using knives, we see quite a bit of our personalities and values reflected.

So, is a knife a trinket or tool or both? You get to determine what a knife means to you and what parts of you get reflected in that decision. It sounds like you're going about it in a really thoughtful way. Good luck and let us know what your answers are.

 

[RobbW]

Double post.

 

[cchu518]

I don't find that crazy at all. I literally have re-purchased the same brand, style and color of work pants, slacks, shirts for work and a shoe for the past decade. Whenever something gets worn, I replace it with the exact same thing, so I don't have to worry about what I wear at work, and I can match any shirt with any pair of pants in my closet! One time the a clothing Company changed the name of a style of slacks that I was used to wearing and I was lost like a deer in headlights for a good month refusing to buy a new pair of pants.

I use my knives, and I collect the knives I use - traditionals and otherwise.

What I mean is that once I find a specific model/style/pattern that I like, I buy multiples -- one goes in/on my pocket/belt, and the others go in the safe. I do this because I worry that after using my user until it's time to replace it, I may no longer be able to find the same model/style/pattern that I have become so accustomed to carrying and using. I probably have a little OCD going on too, but I'm Ok with that... because I have a safe-full of sweet knives! Call me crazy....

 

[cchu518]

Yes, a knife is a trinket or a tool--that's the Chinese way to answer that question, isn't it? Not focus on the "or", but answer in the affirmative if one of the conditions is met.

For me, a traditional knife is both a trinket and a tool. It is a trinket in that I always prefer a nicer example of a pattern--something with bone or stag or nicely-grained wood, and something that's designed well and put together well. But it's also a tool that I use several times daily. So for me a knife has the utility of a tool, but it's also something more, something that is aesthetically pleasing to me that I can appreciate using.

In a way, the question you ask makes me think of Rorschach Tests. In the same way that the ink blots are what we make of them, traditional knives are also what we want them to be. For some, they are utilitarian tools and nothing else. They might get used to cut, but also scrape, pry and screwdrive. They might get (what I would consider) horribly abused and mangled or broken, but that is why the owner values them--to do what needs doing, and do it with one pocket tool. They also might get taken care of really well and only used to cut, but the owner sees them as tools and nothing more. Others might value knives as art, or as investments, or as statements of success or anticipated success, as commodity fetishes, as extensions of self, and so forth. These are all other extremes of the utilitarian's answer that a knife is only a tool. I think our various answers reflect how we perceive ourselves, and maybe what we are trying to convince ourselves and others that we really are.

I like traditional knives because they use a minimum of steel to get a job done. There is no excess, wasted steel; even when the edge dulls say, cutting cardboard, they still work really well because the blade stock itself is still so thin. By contrast, most modern knives have thicker steel and will not cut in this way as well, especially when the edge dulls (please note that this is my own preference and a common task for me, others use knives for very different purposes). This is the utilitarian side of me.

I also like traditional knives because there is an abundance of natural materials in the handles, and the handles look well integrated into the overall knife--not like they are screwed on as an afterthought. Traditional knives are designed really well. The shape of the handle and the integration of the natural materials into the overall knife just seem right. to me This is the "trinket" side of me.

I have about 20 slipjoint knives. Some I keep for sentimental reasons, some I keep because I frequently use them, and some I bought to try out, but have since found out they aren't for me and I'll eventually sell these or pass them along. 20 knives is too many for me and I will winnow that down a bit now that I know my own preferences. My folding knives range from Case-Bose and Dozier on the high end, to Case, Queen, Canal Street & GEC on the low end. For me, these are at affordable price-points that will not scare me from actually using the knives, but not so low that I feel I'm scrimping on quality construction and lessening my own enjoyment of using the knives. This paragraph says a lot about how I see myself and the tools that I use. I suspect that when we get to the core of collecting or using knives, we see quite a bit of our personalities and values reflected.

So, is a knife a trinket or tool or both? You get to determine what a knife means to you and what parts of you get reflected in that decision. It sounds like you're going about it in a really thoughtful way. Good luck and let us know what your answers are.

That my friend is a GREAT answer! Thank you.

 

[22-rimfire]

It took me a while to get over the difference in price between Case or Queen and GEC traditionals. But I have come to believe that as a blanket statment, the GEC's are better overall.

When I bought the Ben Hogan, a couple years back at the Blade Show in Atlanta, I was eye balling GEC's knives at their booth and specifically in the hunt for a larger than the standard #73 trapper, but not too large. They gave me a price on the Ben Hogan and I just chuckled... you expect me to pay that? The funny thing was it was their regular price that you can buy from other dealers. Ultimately, he dropped the price about $20 and I agreed. I still chuckle about that as I was new to GEC then.

Reminds me of an outing many Easter Sundays ago, my wife and I were cruising around near Sevierville TN and I see an art gallery that I had not been to. Didn't know anything about the artist... nothing. I swagger in with my wife and proceed to look at their framed artwork and landed on an original that I liked a lot. It just happened that they were actually closed and had opened the gallery for some affluent customers/collectors who were in town, but I didn't know that. I spoke with the artist and proceeded to start to negotiate a different price. He gave me funny looks..... which I ignored. I ended up buying that original piece that day from the artist at a reduced price. I since learned it is not proper to negotiate for such things. I have since purchased many of their limited edition prints and some more originals and love his work. But it all started on that Easter Sunday.... which has absolutely nothing to do with knives.

 

[jec88]

I don't consider myself a collector. I have to have 50-75 knives.........I guess I have the bug and don't even realize it.
Here's my story and thinking in brief. My 1st real knife was a bucklite 422 from the mid 80's. Carried that knife for 15 years without even looking for another knife. It fit all my needs. It was stolen and I went at least 6 years without even carrying a knife. Then I came across one similar Bucklite at a flea market and bought it, but then I decided to try other knives similar to the Bucklite 422, but would show more character with age
. SO I try a Buck 112 Ranger which the Bucklite was based off of, and I try 110's. I also appreciate a nice Case with CV steel, so I try a lot of the different Case Patterns. Always in search of the perfect EDC, I usually try to buy 2 of each knife so that If I like the knife to edc, I have a backup. And I keep the boxes and paperwork. So now I have a collection.
And after buying all these knives, what have I discovered? That I still basically prefer a Buck 112 or Buck 110 in any of their variations! Right now I have been carrying a Buck 110 paperstone/ecolite for 2 months straight..........................................But now Buck has a 50th anniversary 110 out so I have a couple of those on the way, and I've never tried a Buck 112 Ranger with the finger grooves, which is even closer to my original bucklite.....................so I don't know if it will ever end?
I've also come across beat up Buck 110's for next to nothing and I buy those because I think that one day when I retire, I might enjoy trying to restore or customize knives for a hobby. But my only goal is to just find the perfect edc knife that will develop character after years of use.

 

[pinnah]

22, nice story and imo, it does relate to the collection of knives. Collecting is collecting and our knife collecting discussions parallel others. I would add that your story actually explains better what I was trying to say about Codger's great Schrade collection. There are works of art/manufacture that move us deeply and owning and studying those things seems to move well beyond the mindless acquisition problem. All that to say, I'm glad you told the story. It sheds light on the knives (for me).

 

[Halfneck]

Exactly! So it begs the question...is a knife a trinket or a tool?

In a way, Both.

I have far more knives now then when I was younger. I used those few knives far more than the ones I own now. Money being tight right now I can't afford to buy "trinkets". The knives I own must be used as the tool they are. Part of the reason I no longer have the knives of my youth is they were used very hard, sometimes improperly, because they were all I had. The Schrade stockman I mentioned in my previous post is my third. The two I had as a kid both ended up with broken blades when I pressed them into service as screwdrivers. Could be what started my interest in SAKs and why I love my GEC Radio knife so much lol.

Could I get by with a lot less knives - sure. I do try and use the ones I have, but I enjoy owning several nice knives to choose from.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

"So your question is more along the lines of "why do some people collect things beyond the ones they need for basic use?" Which is more of a psychological question than a knife question, but would make for some interesting research."


I collect for diversity.
I use knives based on daily wants/tasks which change day to day.
I buy to give neglected knives an appreciating home.
I make knives (not Slipjoints yet), so to not have multiple patterns to view different approaches to manufacture is neglectful.
I use base models of basically everything (my Kia has no frills, my daughter loves the old fashioned wind down windows!), so knives are where I show off some.
I don't drink coffee, go out to movies, and rarely buy drinks- a $5 slipjoint isn't too much out of pocket.
I work hard and come home to my family each day- I deserve a treat!

And I want more than I need!