- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 4,527
In the Discussion forum I posted a bunch of knives that I recently obtained from New Graham Knives. In it I included the following pic:
These are not my first slipjoints, but my collection is light on these knives, and bereft of Case knives so I took the plunge and got the 4 you see (along with a Vic. electrician for the electricians blade that I had never seen before). When I took them out of their packaging I was really dissapointed in what I saw. Not a single knife could cut paper to any appreciable degree. Now if this was a Queen I would expect it based on what I have experienced and heard here. But when both the website and leaflets in the box claim the following it irks me:
website:
"The Tested XX is a symbol of Case's commitment to quality",
***"We warrant each and every Case knife to be free of defects in material and workmanship"***
"A quick touch-up will bring back a chrome vanadium blade’s original sharp edge."
inserts recieved with the knives:
"Case name has always been synonymous with extraordinary keen edges"
"each and every Case blade is honed by hand... with care by... master craftsmen"
***"The blades that go into every Case knife are honed to an extremely sharp edge"***
"Our customers expect Case to deliver high-quality, razor sharp knives"
This is a total of 10 blades (3 raindrop damascus, 1 random damascus, remainder in SS) that were unacceptable based on the promises of the company. Most of them sharpened up okay on the new Sharpmaker (as evidenced by the nick I just gave myself while closing the trapper:jerkit
, and if this was the only problem I would not be bothered as I actually like sharpening freehand (the sharpmaker use was because it was new- and I bought it because no sharpener collection is complete without it). But, alas, I found other faults on each knife. I know that I may be nit-picking on some of the points but the more I inspected the knives, the more I got perturbed by what I saw, and in turn was even more critical.
I contacted Case by email and have not heard back from them yet (2 days). Following is what problems I reported to them:
1) 6355WH SS: Dark red seahorse whittler (item #05916, date 02/18/04)
Excessive blade play in the coping blade as compared to the pen blade.
Red handle scale with the "Case" scroll insert is white along the top and bottom edge indicating an incomplete dye job, as evidenced by the totally red scale on the other side. Both small blades were so dull it did not seem like any bevels were put on them.
2) TB6339 SS: New Black Sowbelly (item #06965, date 06/19/07)
Each of the 3 blades has pits on the blade behind the end spring/ tang junction (hard to describe where but it is on the flat portion of the blade tang that fits under the spring when the blade is open- hope that helps)
The first end spring extends above the level of the rest of the handle on the end with the 2 blades creating a bump on the top of the handle- as well the bolsters on that end are unevenly finished (not rounded out well , indicating to me that there is further problems with quality control.
The center pin was domed way too deep, thus cracking the handle on both sides of the pin. As well one end of the pins is domed flush with the handle while the other is inset lower than the handle scale.
I am unsure if this is meant to be or not but the clip blade is almost touching the brass liner to the outside of the knife, when there is adequate room in the channel for the blade to be centered.
3) 6107WD: Dark red Damascus trapper (item# 02887, date 08/08/02)
This knife has the worst flaw in that it is a dangerous one- the kick was not properly finished to the proper size and as a result the tip of the wharncliffe blade sticks above the handle when closed- a very large cutting/ accidental opening hazard.
Again the blade is not centered properly.
When opened the blade tang/spring junction is not flush, with the spring sitting above the level of the rest of the handle (uncomfortable).
Center pin on non shield side placed so low (?crooked pin hole?) that it is flat on the bottom as it apparently extended below the handle and was finished flush after doming- there is also a flat on the bottom half of the dome.
As well the damascus is etched so dark is hardly seems like there is any definition between the layers
4) 6347D: Burnt amber damascus stockman (item#05707, date 06/30/07)
I was extremely dissapointed with the fit and finish on such a high dollar item. Every one of the springs extends above the handle similar to the above knife except to a greater degree, plus the tops of the springs are grooved in this spot.
The shield side scale is not finished well- on the spey blade end there is a gap between the scale and brass liner on both top and bottom deep enough to fit fingernail into.
This one confuses me- both the sowbelly and this one have the same blades. On the sowbelly the Sheepsfoot and clip blades are separated by a brass liner to avoid rubbing against each other but on this knife there are no liners so both of the blades grind against each other when opening. This makes opening the knife more undesirable as I do not wish to grind high end damascus blades together. Fixing this problem is as easy as putting the spey blade in the middle as it is on the opposite end of the knife, the spring would have acted as a liner separating the two blades- thus preventing the grinding.
The shield side center pin was domed poorly- with there being a flat on the top of the dome with some white substance on the flat of the dome.
I do like this knife however but with a price tag of nearly $200= unacceptable.
As well none of the joints where the blade meets spring in open position are ground parallel or even straight- leaving a nasty joint when opened (sorry I cannot think of proper terminology-I don't focus much on Slipjoints). I do not expect an invisible line but none of my other slippies were anywhere near this level of lack of finish. My last concern is that the knives are finished, for lack of better communication, dirty. A couple of them seemed gritty when opening them for the first time and when I lubricated them (white lightning) the excess lube came out black! I have never experienced this with any of my other new knives- and the Vic. electrician from the same shipment came out clean.
I contacted Case by e-mail about my issues before writing this, asking them to contact me. 2 buisness days have gone by without a response so I felt that was sufficient time before bringing my issues here. I understand this is the risks with purchasing unseen and accept this but I expected better from a reputable company, with such a long history and quality assurance propaganda. This experience also debunks the -"Made in USA" is the best quality- mindframe to me at least as I have never had this kind of problem with any other company.
If it was just one knife/batch I would send it back but 4 different knives born in 3 different years all with quality control problems seems a bit much; so I think that I will keep them as a reminder of my experiences. After all how can I trust they will come back any better than when they left the building the first time. Some of the problems are aesthetic, others I will have to do decent amounts of work to fix to where I feel they wil be usable/safe. I will end up keeping these knives and using them (they were never meant to be totally safe queens) but I expected more.
Am I being totally unreasonable here or do you fine, knowledgable folks think I have a legitamate concern?
On another note the website says to oil rust and the next day scrape it off with the tip of a knife. A knife company that says to scrape with the tip of a knife is odd to me. Does that mean that if I take off the tip of a small, thin blade this was that it is not abuse of a knife and will be covered under warranty? Just seems counterproductive to me.
These are not my first slipjoints, but my collection is light on these knives, and bereft of Case knives so I took the plunge and got the 4 you see (along with a Vic. electrician for the electricians blade that I had never seen before). When I took them out of their packaging I was really dissapointed in what I saw. Not a single knife could cut paper to any appreciable degree. Now if this was a Queen I would expect it based on what I have experienced and heard here. But when both the website and leaflets in the box claim the following it irks me:
website:
"The Tested XX is a symbol of Case's commitment to quality",
***"We warrant each and every Case knife to be free of defects in material and workmanship"***
"A quick touch-up will bring back a chrome vanadium blade’s original sharp edge."
inserts recieved with the knives:
"Case name has always been synonymous with extraordinary keen edges"
"each and every Case blade is honed by hand... with care by... master craftsmen"
***"The blades that go into every Case knife are honed to an extremely sharp edge"***
"Our customers expect Case to deliver high-quality, razor sharp knives"
This is a total of 10 blades (3 raindrop damascus, 1 random damascus, remainder in SS) that were unacceptable based on the promises of the company. Most of them sharpened up okay on the new Sharpmaker (as evidenced by the nick I just gave myself while closing the trapper:jerkit
, and if this was the only problem I would not be bothered as I actually like sharpening freehand (the sharpmaker use was because it was new- and I bought it because no sharpener collection is complete without it). But, alas, I found other faults on each knife. I know that I may be nit-picking on some of the points but the more I inspected the knives, the more I got perturbed by what I saw, and in turn was even more critical.I contacted Case by email and have not heard back from them yet (2 days). Following is what problems I reported to them:
1) 6355WH SS: Dark red seahorse whittler (item #05916, date 02/18/04)
Excessive blade play in the coping blade as compared to the pen blade.
Red handle scale with the "Case" scroll insert is white along the top and bottom edge indicating an incomplete dye job, as evidenced by the totally red scale on the other side. Both small blades were so dull it did not seem like any bevels were put on them.
2) TB6339 SS: New Black Sowbelly (item #06965, date 06/19/07)
Each of the 3 blades has pits on the blade behind the end spring/ tang junction (hard to describe where but it is on the flat portion of the blade tang that fits under the spring when the blade is open- hope that helps)
The first end spring extends above the level of the rest of the handle on the end with the 2 blades creating a bump on the top of the handle- as well the bolsters on that end are unevenly finished (not rounded out well , indicating to me that there is further problems with quality control.
The center pin was domed way too deep, thus cracking the handle on both sides of the pin. As well one end of the pins is domed flush with the handle while the other is inset lower than the handle scale.
I am unsure if this is meant to be or not but the clip blade is almost touching the brass liner to the outside of the knife, when there is adequate room in the channel for the blade to be centered.
3) 6107WD: Dark red Damascus trapper (item# 02887, date 08/08/02)
This knife has the worst flaw in that it is a dangerous one- the kick was not properly finished to the proper size and as a result the tip of the wharncliffe blade sticks above the handle when closed- a very large cutting/ accidental opening hazard.
Again the blade is not centered properly.
When opened the blade tang/spring junction is not flush, with the spring sitting above the level of the rest of the handle (uncomfortable).
Center pin on non shield side placed so low (?crooked pin hole?) that it is flat on the bottom as it apparently extended below the handle and was finished flush after doming- there is also a flat on the bottom half of the dome.
As well the damascus is etched so dark is hardly seems like there is any definition between the layers
4) 6347D: Burnt amber damascus stockman (item#05707, date 06/30/07)
I was extremely dissapointed with the fit and finish on such a high dollar item. Every one of the springs extends above the handle similar to the above knife except to a greater degree, plus the tops of the springs are grooved in this spot.
The shield side scale is not finished well- on the spey blade end there is a gap between the scale and brass liner on both top and bottom deep enough to fit fingernail into.
This one confuses me- both the sowbelly and this one have the same blades. On the sowbelly the Sheepsfoot and clip blades are separated by a brass liner to avoid rubbing against each other but on this knife there are no liners so both of the blades grind against each other when opening. This makes opening the knife more undesirable as I do not wish to grind high end damascus blades together. Fixing this problem is as easy as putting the spey blade in the middle as it is on the opposite end of the knife, the spring would have acted as a liner separating the two blades- thus preventing the grinding.
The shield side center pin was domed poorly- with there being a flat on the top of the dome with some white substance on the flat of the dome.
I do like this knife however but with a price tag of nearly $200= unacceptable.
As well none of the joints where the blade meets spring in open position are ground parallel or even straight- leaving a nasty joint when opened (sorry I cannot think of proper terminology-I don't focus much on Slipjoints). I do not expect an invisible line but none of my other slippies were anywhere near this level of lack of finish. My last concern is that the knives are finished, for lack of better communication, dirty. A couple of them seemed gritty when opening them for the first time and when I lubricated them (white lightning) the excess lube came out black! I have never experienced this with any of my other new knives- and the Vic. electrician from the same shipment came out clean.
I contacted Case by e-mail about my issues before writing this, asking them to contact me. 2 buisness days have gone by without a response so I felt that was sufficient time before bringing my issues here. I understand this is the risks with purchasing unseen and accept this but I expected better from a reputable company, with such a long history and quality assurance propaganda. This experience also debunks the -"Made in USA" is the best quality- mindframe to me at least as I have never had this kind of problem with any other company.
If it was just one knife/batch I would send it back but 4 different knives born in 3 different years all with quality control problems seems a bit much; so I think that I will keep them as a reminder of my experiences. After all how can I trust they will come back any better than when they left the building the first time. Some of the problems are aesthetic, others I will have to do decent amounts of work to fix to where I feel they wil be usable/safe. I will end up keeping these knives and using them (they were never meant to be totally safe queens) but I expected more.
Am I being totally unreasonable here or do you fine, knowledgable folks think I have a legitamate concern?
On another note the website says to oil rust and the next day scrape it off with the tip of a knife. A knife company that says to scrape with the tip of a knife is odd to me. Does that mean that if I take off the tip of a small, thin blade this was that it is not abuse of a knife and will be covered under warranty? Just seems counterproductive to me.
.
. That tells me a lot about how they want to keep me as a customer!!!
