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My shotgun got confiscated
- Thread starter sweet
- Start date
Mossberg won the Military contract for a number of years with the bigger reciever version, ghost ring sights and NINE round capacity. After awhile of operation I guess they do better. May be 'clunky' but apparently goes 'clunk' in a wide variety of circumstances.
That's what I'd do.
Always wanted a 870. It's a nice machine with lots of after market accesories. Mossbergs aren't as accesory friendly- (I'm thinking mostly of extra mag cap) but if you get the Mossberg with the features you want, you won't need to buy the other stuff anyway.
munk
That's what I'd do.
Always wanted a 870. It's a nice machine with lots of after market accesories. Mossbergs aren't as accesory friendly- (I'm thinking mostly of extra mag cap) but if you get the Mossberg with the features you want, you won't need to buy the other stuff anyway.
munk
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2000
- Messages
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Oh boy...here we go...one of the few areas where I'm a bit overly opinionated...
REMINGTON 870- w/ sidesaddle shell carrier, Vangcomp aftermarket follower, and a couple extra Wolf springs. I do not recommend the mag extensions. It's rather infrequent, but I've seem two of them bind in the last year, one was a Vangcomp, and the other was a Tacstar. When they bound, it was UGLY- but that's just the nature of a pump shotgun it seems, they rarely fail, but when they do, they fail big time. I Also find that once you put those extra rounds in the end of your barrel, you really lose quite a bit of agility in handling it. And...if you wind up ventilating some thug, it's a lot more jury friendly, especially in a place like California. If you just gotsta gotsta gotsta have a mag extension, consider the Remington factory extension, Scattergun tech, or VangComp. I consider all three to be much better made than the Choate.
Barrel-eighteen and a half inches of course is the standard, but don't be afraid to go longer if you favor more muzzle burn, a tighter choke, and a longer sighting plane. Don't forget a good gunsmith can choke an 18 inch cylinder bore barrel, if you decide you want more range out of your buckshot.
sights- If shortrange is your only concern, a standard bead will do fine, but if you want slug shooting at longer ranges consider some. another area where I'm opinionated...Buy the MMC ghost rings...they are much superior to the Scattergun Techs sites. They're expensive, but they are seriously tough, and very effective.
Stock- If you go synthetic, I like the Speedfeed stocks, that allow two rounds to be inserted on each side. Otherwise I'd stick with wood, much more jury friendly. The Remington Factory Synthetic stocks are very lightweight, nice for carrying, but not nice for shooting. Shot side by side with a wooden stock, or a heavier synthetic stock,there is a pretty clear difference.
Forearms- the Surefire forearms are pretty well done, although very expensive. Nice for target identification. Never favored it on my own though, due to that whole clean handling hang up I have. Although I will admit, there were a few times in the woods after dark when I heard very large heavy movement nearby I wish I'd had one.
One of my favorite 870s had a six shot Sidesaddle shell carrier, five shot buttcuff shell holder (secured with the shells facing left by a sling swivel, Speedfeed stock, and an eight shot mag extension (before I shied away from them. That was nineteen rounds onboard the gun. It was insanely heavy, but in the house it was kept as a barricade gun, and if I had to run with it (which I had to a few times) there was plenty of ammo aboard.
As far as the Mossbergs, I've seen more of them I disliked than I've liked. I guess I'm just a wierd SOB, cause the last two brand new ones I saw my buddy buy ejected shells out the bottom instead of chambering them, especially once the mag spring got a little tired. I've run into all sortsa people who claim to have put tens of thousands of rounds through Mossbergs without ever once experiencing that. I don't care for the gritty action of them, although they DO have a lot nicer safety to manipulate than the 870- although the VangComp extended safety does help tremendously on the Remington. I think theres an easy to percieve difference in Mossberg Vs. Remington. If you do get a Mossberg, just do yourself a favor and compare it to a Remington.
H&K- hard kicking, sharp edges, overpriced, and hard to get parts for. Yer 870 or Mossberg ever breaks, parts are a dime a dozen, yer H&K breaks and parts are harder to find and more expensive.
As far as actions, I like the Pump shotgun for the same reason I like the revolver- they both handle neglect quite well, and are a bit less finicky with tired mag springs, different ammo, and dust bunnies. The ammo is a big thing- you can shoot everything from rubber slugs, to Magnum buckshot, and every exotic round in between and not worry about the gun cycling, or the action getting clogged up with crap.
Incidentally, I LIKE the double barrels pretty well. I'm currently thinking about getting a 10 guage side by side for myself, cutting the barrel down to 18.5 and loading it with 0 buckshot...that oughta take care anything what's givin' ya' problems...hehe.. An advantage to double barrels is simple function, clean handling, and jury friendliness. I'm pretty darn confident with two shots myself, although I'd probably still carry a couple extra rounds onboard. If you do wind up with a double (which folks seldom do) I'd recommend hammerless over exposed hammers. Alot easier and safer to uncock with shaky hands when you hear something go bump in the night and then realize it was just the cat or whatever. Also quicker and safer to work the safety.
I've shot an 870 ALOT- basically half my life now. I've shot mean tempered moose in the yard, cabin raiding blackies, and most other critters that have ever walked, flew, crawled or slithered in the areas I've lived. Never shot a person yet (thank God) but it has been used to influence folks which otherwise would have been tempted to hurt lil ole me. Hence my pre-disposition towards it.
If I've insulted anyone's favorite gun during my diatribe, I do apologize- we're all lead by our own different experiences and tastes, and these are some of mine. (I hate to be one of those I'm always right, and you're wrong if you disagree with me types)
REMINGTON 870- w/ sidesaddle shell carrier, Vangcomp aftermarket follower, and a couple extra Wolf springs. I do not recommend the mag extensions. It's rather infrequent, but I've seem two of them bind in the last year, one was a Vangcomp, and the other was a Tacstar. When they bound, it was UGLY- but that's just the nature of a pump shotgun it seems, they rarely fail, but when they do, they fail big time. I Also find that once you put those extra rounds in the end of your barrel, you really lose quite a bit of agility in handling it. And...if you wind up ventilating some thug, it's a lot more jury friendly, especially in a place like California. If you just gotsta gotsta gotsta have a mag extension, consider the Remington factory extension, Scattergun tech, or VangComp. I consider all three to be much better made than the Choate.
Barrel-eighteen and a half inches of course is the standard, but don't be afraid to go longer if you favor more muzzle burn, a tighter choke, and a longer sighting plane. Don't forget a good gunsmith can choke an 18 inch cylinder bore barrel, if you decide you want more range out of your buckshot.
sights- If shortrange is your only concern, a standard bead will do fine, but if you want slug shooting at longer ranges consider some. another area where I'm opinionated...Buy the MMC ghost rings...they are much superior to the Scattergun Techs sites. They're expensive, but they are seriously tough, and very effective.
Stock- If you go synthetic, I like the Speedfeed stocks, that allow two rounds to be inserted on each side. Otherwise I'd stick with wood, much more jury friendly. The Remington Factory Synthetic stocks are very lightweight, nice for carrying, but not nice for shooting. Shot side by side with a wooden stock, or a heavier synthetic stock,there is a pretty clear difference.
Forearms- the Surefire forearms are pretty well done, although very expensive. Nice for target identification. Never favored it on my own though, due to that whole clean handling hang up I have. Although I will admit, there were a few times in the woods after dark when I heard very large heavy movement nearby I wish I'd had one.
One of my favorite 870s had a six shot Sidesaddle shell carrier, five shot buttcuff shell holder (secured with the shells facing left by a sling swivel, Speedfeed stock, and an eight shot mag extension (before I shied away from them. That was nineteen rounds onboard the gun. It was insanely heavy, but in the house it was kept as a barricade gun, and if I had to run with it (which I had to a few times) there was plenty of ammo aboard.
As far as the Mossbergs, I've seen more of them I disliked than I've liked. I guess I'm just a wierd SOB, cause the last two brand new ones I saw my buddy buy ejected shells out the bottom instead of chambering them, especially once the mag spring got a little tired. I've run into all sortsa people who claim to have put tens of thousands of rounds through Mossbergs without ever once experiencing that. I don't care for the gritty action of them, although they DO have a lot nicer safety to manipulate than the 870- although the VangComp extended safety does help tremendously on the Remington. I think theres an easy to percieve difference in Mossberg Vs. Remington. If you do get a Mossberg, just do yourself a favor and compare it to a Remington.
H&K- hard kicking, sharp edges, overpriced, and hard to get parts for. Yer 870 or Mossberg ever breaks, parts are a dime a dozen, yer H&K breaks and parts are harder to find and more expensive.
As far as actions, I like the Pump shotgun for the same reason I like the revolver- they both handle neglect quite well, and are a bit less finicky with tired mag springs, different ammo, and dust bunnies. The ammo is a big thing- you can shoot everything from rubber slugs, to Magnum buckshot, and every exotic round in between and not worry about the gun cycling, or the action getting clogged up with crap.
Incidentally, I LIKE the double barrels pretty well. I'm currently thinking about getting a 10 guage side by side for myself, cutting the barrel down to 18.5 and loading it with 0 buckshot...that oughta take care anything what's givin' ya' problems...hehe.. An advantage to double barrels is simple function, clean handling, and jury friendliness. I'm pretty darn confident with two shots myself, although I'd probably still carry a couple extra rounds onboard. If you do wind up with a double (which folks seldom do) I'd recommend hammerless over exposed hammers. Alot easier and safer to uncock with shaky hands when you hear something go bump in the night and then realize it was just the cat or whatever. Also quicker and safer to work the safety.
I've shot an 870 ALOT- basically half my life now. I've shot mean tempered moose in the yard, cabin raiding blackies, and most other critters that have ever walked, flew, crawled or slithered in the areas I've lived. Never shot a person yet (thank God) but it has been used to influence folks which otherwise would have been tempted to hurt lil ole me. Hence my pre-disposition towards it.
If I've insulted anyone's favorite gun during my diatribe, I do apologize- we're all lead by our own different experiences and tastes, and these are some of mine. (I hate to be one of those I'm always right, and you're wrong if you disagree with me types)
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- Dec 3, 2000
- Messages
- 3,002
Kismet said:
Uhmm...I've handled the 97 clone....didn't leave with much respect for them. hard as hell to cycle, kicked like a mule, and a very, very, very gritty action....I benchpress 350 lbs, and had to rack that SOB, like I'd just caught it in bed with my wife.
I've handled some coming out of Russia (forget the make...probably EAA as usual) that were much, much more refined and better handling.
the gun itself was crude, and as far as home defense, the design quite lacking.
As far as the design I'm sure it's dandy for just having fun, cowboy shooting, or maybe for Home Defense, if you wanna put a million rounds through it in practice. As far as the Chinese clone...YECH!!
I dont know if you can get these in the States, but here is my recomendation:
Sorry for the bad pic, but its a Valtro PM-5 with 14" barrel and 7 round removable mag.
Very short and fast to point, and easy to load, just slam the mag in. It comes with some nice fiber optic ghost rings, and would be awesome for HD.
Sorry for the bad pic, but its a Valtro PM-5 with 14" barrel and 7 round removable mag.
Very short and fast to point, and easy to load, just slam the mag in. It comes with some nice fiber optic ghost rings, and would be awesome for HD.
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- Mar 26, 2002
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- 2,845
Bill Marsh said:
Was it a 3-legged rug?
As far as home defense goes, anyone know about the ballistics of shot through wallboard? I'd almost rather shoot shot than slugs - in your average sized house, you're bound to hit a person-sized target and it's not going to travel so much if you miss. Not my area of expertise.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,331
Saiga-12s are also great guns, though not very traditional.
Nothing wrong with an 870- lots (perhaps more) of high-level shooters prefer them. We had both an 870 and a 500 growing up. (Though I shot the H&R Topper, Jr in 20 ga for years.)
I do prefer the safety on the 500, without question.
john
Nothing wrong with an 870- lots (perhaps more) of high-level shooters prefer them. We had both an 870 and a 500 growing up. (Though I shot the H&R Topper, Jr in 20 ga for years.)
I do prefer the safety on the 500, without question.
john
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2004
- Messages
- 14,031
I had a mossberg 500 for years then a fired some Sellior and Belliot thru it.
The loader came off track and rendered the arm useless. My winchester
model 1300 police model operated fine using the same round. So needless
to say my vote is the winchester.
The loader came off track and rendered the arm useless. My winchester
model 1300 police model operated fine using the same round. So needless
to say my vote is the winchester.
Tony Lesce has a good book on the shotgun, and shows the effects of small birdshot on walls. At 10 feet and a cylinder bore, the stuff acts like a solid mass, and will go right through a wall - and so a job on living things.
The problem with the stuff is that when you get to 10 yards or so, the pattern opens up so much that it would do a questionable job of getting through an overcoat, and certainly won't go through a wall.
If you can be sure that you will stay closeup, then birdshot will do.
If you want to use birdshot, I recommend a modified choke.
I still prefer buck for defensive use - it will penetrate, but that is what I want it to do. If I lived in an appartment, I'd consider a tight choke and larger shot - e.g. #4 or a light load of #6 to reduce recoil.
The problem with the stuff is that when you get to 10 yards or so, the pattern opens up so much that it would do a questionable job of getting through an overcoat, and certainly won't go through a wall.
If you can be sure that you will stay closeup, then birdshot will do.
If you want to use birdshot, I recommend a modified choke.
I still prefer buck for defensive use - it will penetrate, but that is what I want it to do. If I lived in an appartment, I'd consider a tight choke and larger shot - e.g. #4 or a light load of #6 to reduce recoil.
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- Dec 28, 2003
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- 4,794
I have a Mossberg 500 ATP6 that I bought years ago, and it goes and goes and goes. Everyone disses it because it has an aluminium receiver, and then they run out and buy Benellis with aluminium receivers. The Benelli is a better gun no doubt, but IMO for the price the 500 is a great gun. Double action bars and top tang safety. I got a factory ported barrel for mine that I am not sure is still made, and took off the wood forend and stock and added a speedfeed II stock that carries 4 rounds internally and a Mossberg synthetic forend. I replaced the factory plastic safety button with a steel one from Brownells, added a 6-shot sidesaddle carrier, and a heavy nylon sling made for an M-16. Finally added the factory heat sheild. I would like to eventually get a Sure-Fire forend for it.
I have probably fired a thousand rounds of just about everything through it, even used it on a skeet range one time for kicks, just to see what it would do. 18" barrel and 6 rounds.
I also have an older 870 that I bought directly from the CHP, with wood stock and forend. (Will take 2 3/4" shells only.) The steel receiver locks up like a bank vault compared to the 500, and it is a sweet gun. I bought the Remington factory mag extension years ago and it works fine. The bluing is much better than the 500. It came with a 20" vent rib barrel. I bought an extra 28" barrel with several chokes so I could use it for either a defensive gun or a bird gun if I wanted. I thought about sending it to Wilson for their Scattergun Tech conversion, but I would hate to parkerize the beautiful bluing, so if I ever do that I'll just buy the gun directly from them or have someone else build one.
Sweet, I'd go to Big 5 at Northridge or to Outdoor World on Fremont st. in Monterey and get a Mossberg 500 with 20" barrel and 8 round capacity. Add a Speedfeed II stock from Midway for around $75, or the Speedfeed III stock with pistol grip for $80. You can also check out Trigger Hill on S. Main, as he gets in a whole bunch of Mossbergs from time to time, and the last time I was in there he had a 500 with the 590 ghost ring sight and extended mag, but was blued. It sold the day it arrived.
Also Markley's Indoor Range in Watsonville always has several good shotguns, Winshester Defender's, 870's and 500's on consignment, and you can often get a great deal. (If you go there tell them Norm sent you! (-
Good luck.
Norm
I have probably fired a thousand rounds of just about everything through it, even used it on a skeet range one time for kicks, just to see what it would do. 18" barrel and 6 rounds.
I also have an older 870 that I bought directly from the CHP, with wood stock and forend. (Will take 2 3/4" shells only.) The steel receiver locks up like a bank vault compared to the 500, and it is a sweet gun. I bought the Remington factory mag extension years ago and it works fine. The bluing is much better than the 500. It came with a 20" vent rib barrel. I bought an extra 28" barrel with several chokes so I could use it for either a defensive gun or a bird gun if I wanted. I thought about sending it to Wilson for their Scattergun Tech conversion, but I would hate to parkerize the beautiful bluing, so if I ever do that I'll just buy the gun directly from them or have someone else build one.
Sweet, I'd go to Big 5 at Northridge or to Outdoor World on Fremont st. in Monterey and get a Mossberg 500 with 20" barrel and 8 round capacity. Add a Speedfeed II stock from Midway for around $75, or the Speedfeed III stock with pistol grip for $80. You can also check out Trigger Hill on S. Main, as he gets in a whole bunch of Mossbergs from time to time, and the last time I was in there he had a 500 with the 590 ghost ring sight and extended mag, but was blued. It sold the day it arrived.
Also Markley's Indoor Range in Watsonville always has several good shotguns, Winshester Defender's, 870's and 500's on consignment, and you can often get a great deal. (If you go there tell them Norm sent you! (-
Good luck.
Norm
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- Dec 28, 2003
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Dr. Thor said:I dont know if you can get these in the States, but here is my recomendation:
Sorry for the bad pic, but its a Valtro PM-5 with 14" barrel and 7 round removable mag.
Beautiful. Very nice little package, and efficient design with the magazine. And illegal as hell here I'm afraid. You could get it after paying a $200 tax and registering it as a Class III weapon though. However, if I was going to do that I'd probably go whole hog and just get a Benelli entry autoloading shotgun with a 14" barrel.
Thanks for sharing.
Norm
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- Nov 17, 2004
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The Mossberg 500. if you look directly above the trigger has a round pin
that keeps the whole thing together. After using S/B throught it the round
pin ended up pushend in making the loading mech useless.
My Winchester however took everything easily without a malf, my vote goes
to winchester 1300 police model.
that keeps the whole thing together. After using S/B throught it the round
pin ended up pushend in making the loading mech useless.
My Winchester however took everything easily without a malf, my vote goes
to winchester 1300 police model.
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munk said:
I won't profess to know the specifics of the contract but I have yet to see a military Mossberg in this configuration. They've all been pretty much the same - bead front sight, no rear sight (besides the groove in the top of the receiver, that is) and a standard length magazine tube. I have seen some with lights attached and pistol grips but these were modifications performed locally and they did not arrive from the depot in that condition.
The latest batch we had sported shorter barrels...nothing crazy, but they're flush with the end of the mag tube now. I'm unsure of whether they're a result of a new specification, a reconditioned barrel, or a reconditioned weapon with a new barrel. The part number is the same. They send them, we use them, and that's all there is.
I hear that there are still some 870's in service. My last advancement exam featured some 870 questions. (Of course, it featured some questions on other weapon systems that are no longer used.) We used to have some but no one used them locally; thus, we weren't required to train anyone on them, and we wound up returning them to Crane. I don't expect that we'll be getting any more of them. I will miss them for the wooden stocks if nothing else.
I actually didn't care for the Mossbergs until I spent some time with them and saw them in use. They're actually very sturdy and are one of the weapons that we don't worry too much about - just about every time one of them has failed, it was due to operator error. (Action cycled too gently, round loaded backwards, etc.) The main problems that I've seen over extended use are the sight beads breaking off from rough handling and the stock screws loosening over time. Everything else seems to chug along nicely.
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I love the Benelli autos, but I don't own one. I have owned and shot 870s for over 20 years and they have never failed me. My friends and relatives have some Mossbergs, and they seem to be reliable and a good value. HOWEVER, the cheap model Mossberg with the synthetic stock kicks like a mule to me. :grumpy: I don't know if it is the light weight or the drop to the stock or what, but I hate it.
From one end of my hallway to the other, I'd feel plenty safe with any shot size bigger than #9; #2 would probably be great. Maybe the next time I am out at my friends ranch I will shoot some different loads at some old jackets and a couple layers of sheetrock just for "research" sake
From one end of my hallway to the other, I'd feel plenty safe with any shot size bigger than #9; #2 would probably be great. Maybe the next time I am out at my friends ranch I will shoot some different loads at some old jackets and a couple layers of sheetrock just for "research" sake
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Satori said:
Satori, Munk is correct and there are a lot of them out there and they are still carried in the Mossberg catalog. The military designation is the 590: parkerized, bayonet lug, ghost ring sights, 9 rounds total (8+1). They are a good deal and a good gun. I would have bought one but when they came out I already had my ATP6 fixed up and couldn't justify the expense.
Regards,
Norm