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My Side Of It>>> Flanagan, Chief, & Okie

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narruc1

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Oct 19, 1999
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I was made out to be a bad guy for repling to a post with my opinion. So here is what I have to say about the whole thing.<p>Rgray began his post in this way...
<b>What do you think of this one?
</b><p>My reply was exactly that... <b>What I thought!</b><p>After I did that, Okie writes this...
<b>By the way, is it even remotely possible for "narruc1" to make a post without getting his dig in on some distributor?
</b><p>That was his first attack on me, from him, By name!<p>My reply was...
<b>Please lets not get into mixing words, because it's only an opinion, and I wouldn't have even said it if there weren’t some truth to it. Thank you!
</b><p>Now The Chief steps in and said this...
<b>Rick knows a lot about high end knives, and if Rick says a two bladed Dake like this normally goes for $6K (even though he would only pay $4K) that is a much better estimate of its worth than yours.
</b><p>Well, I never said, or gave an estimate on how much I thought the knife was worth. What I said is that <b>I wouldn't pay that much for it...</b> <b>My opinion again!</b> I also think Charlie Dake's knives are a little over priced, and I would rather spend my money on a Master Smiths knife, which Dake is not. If you don't agree me that is fine, but don't jump on me for having that opinion.<p>Again, I would just like to say that, I did not mention any names, weather you know who I'm talking about or not. I would have liked it a lot better if when these two gentlemen wrote their replies, if they didn't use my name, <b>but they did… Why?</b> Wouldn’t everyone know who they were talking about, or did they just want to make sure of it. A little hypocritical, don't you think?<p>Chief also wrote this…
<b>Why so bitter? Ray taking profit out of your pocket? Ray has always been more than fair with me.
</b><p>No chief, he isn’t taking profit out of my pocket, because I’m not in competition with him, or anyone for that fact. I just love knives, and I have no need to make a living off of them. I just like meeting other knife nuts, and going to as many shows as I possibly can. I also can understand that the person that we are talking about is fair to many people. I have my reasons for doing what I do! Not many people know the reason, but the ones that do understand, and the ones that don’t… Well, they just attack me!<p>Chief also wrote this…
<b>"Deferments" puleeze...learn to spell.
</b><p> Look it up chief... Deferment: To Postpone
Defer; deferred; deferring; defers; deferments<p>The only thing that is misspelled is PULEEZE!<p>Now to the Moderator Mr. Tim Flanagan. This one really bothered me! Our all-wise moderator wrote…
<b>OK, that's quite enough. Bob- if you have a problem with some dealer or distributor, be it Ray or anyone else, take it to email or the telephone. I've gotten enough complaints and seen enough of your digs to see that you've got a burr somewhere, but this is NOT the forum to air your assertions or beliefs. I don't care if you are right or wrong. End it- now
</b><p>He also wrote…
<b>Here's a rule of thumb that some of you might want to gnaw on- before you post some dig or wise@$$ remark, think whether you'd say it to your mark's face at a show. The adage that an armed society is a polite society holds true here- you just can't see the person on the other end of your post. Keep it civil.
</b><p>Now Tim, our moderator locked the thread without giving me a chance to say anything. I think I deserved the right to rebut, because he pointed the mad finger right at me, and no one else. I wrote e-mail to Tim, and he hasn’t had the decency to reply to me as of yet. Unfortunately I accidentally deleted the e-mail I sent him, so this will not be verbatim, but very close…<p>Hi Tim… I would first like to say, that I’m a little angry at the way you chastised me, and no one else. I did not attack anyone until I was attacked! All I did was reply to a post that said… <b>“What do you think of this one?”</b> I did exactly that! Yes, I through in a dig, but I didn’t mention a name, and I didn’t even mention that it was a dealer. Why was I the brunt of your anger? Because people complained? Complained at what? Complained about my opinion? There wasn’t anything for them to complain about!Damn Tim, just read my original reply, and tell me what was so bad, that it caused these two guys’s to go on like they did?<p>Secondly, I don’t say anything in type that I wouldn’t say to someone’s face! I don’t hide behind my monitor! The people that know me can attest to that. I think that it was very unfair of you not to have mentioned anyone else in your thread. I don’t know how many times that I have to say, I have never attacked someone personally for what they printed, except when I was verbally abused first. You made me out to be the villain, and that was very unfair to me, and unfair for you as a moderator for doing that.<p>I also mentioned something about a certain person that I will leave off, because it was for Tim only.<p>I’m sure this is not going to change anyone’s mind, and frankly I really don’t care. I know what I wrote, and how I wrote it, and what I meant. I also know that I have never verbally abused anyone that didn’t do it to me first. I think I have the right to rebut someone else’s attack... After all, I would do it in person, so why not in print.

Thank you!
 
I know nothing about this issue other than what I've just read. But I'm bored so I'll chime in, esp. because people seem to have been getting pretty snappy on the forums of late, and I preferred the "polite society" that seemed to be more prevalent around here in the the first 2 years. N1, your post above seems pretty reasonable. But in the actual Drake post, you put in a light dig, get jabbed back (perhaps overly harshly), but then you respond in full force & I must say you come off as the bigger jerk in the exchange. Obviously there's some history here that is making certain people sensitive. Why not just take a deep breath & decide not to "go negative"? Just .02 from a neutral & couldn't-care-less party who's never dealt with anyone involved in the fracas.
 
Gunslinger, I was thinking the same thing :)
Gonna pull up my easy chair and make some popcorn. My buddies Nakano and BrianC will be by with the butter and salt any time now.
Carry on boys! :D
 
My opinion is,don't ask for an opinion if your going to get upset about a negative comment.I wouldn't pay 4,000.00 for the knife either.The work is very nice and I love the designs,but I would hold the same opinion as Narruc.I don't really see a thing anywhere in the first couple of posts that would infuriate these other people like apparantly has happened.First,you never mention names of companies or individuals so I'm at a loss for who got slammed as well as you Bob.THe only statement you left open for minds to wonder was when you said "like certain other people" nowhere did you single any person out,so I think you got jumped on a little harshly.If people want just positive feedback,then don't bother asking for opinions.AS long as a negative feedback is not overly rude,nasty,etc I can't see what is wrong with feeling the price is too high for a product.If someone jumped in a for sale ad and spouted off that opinion,then it would be out of place.Bob honestly I don't see a problem with what you said.just my two cents.Ralph
 
Thank you for your support Tombstone, and I hope that you do not receive any flak for doing so.:) <p>I would have thought that some of my friends would reply, but it's very nice to have a stranger help out. Thanks again!:)
 
Fishface5, Yes, Bobbie (Narruc1) can be civil when he is trying to win some sympathy. Please read the thread in question before coming to a conclusion on your opinion.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160341

More relevant that that one thread is the continual bashing Bobbie does of Rayjay. Anyone who has read the auto forum very long has seen it time and time again. Then BC has the gall to say he never mentioned names, maybe not in this thread but there have been so many attacks in the past, its obvious who he is talking about. Can't deny the truth, can you Bobbie? Okie just asked the obvious question...it wasn't a dig, it was sarcasm pointing out the obvious, but that went right over your head.

Bobbie, you are obviously a moron. The thread was locked for good reason but you have to go elsewhere and fire it up again looking for sympathy. What's the matter, nobody love you? You said, quote, "I'm not going to reply anymore, because this is the wrong place." but didn't keep your word. Or are you using twisted logic, starting a new thread isn't replying?

You said someone is making 300% profit on a knife at $4500, how is that not putting a estimate on its value??? You can't do math either I guess. You are so stupid you can't even see that you are the one who misspelled "diferments" (your spelling), and don't even get it when I point it out. Reread the thread...you misspell "diferments" and I correct you with "deferments" and now you give me the definition??? hahhahaha....am laughing at your stupid a$$. Please was misspelled "puleeze" on purpose, for effect, spelled the way you might say it when you are putting extra emphasis on the sarcasm, but that was only lost on an idiot like you. You attack my sterling military career when you don't know me at all, furthermore, you can't even spell FRAGGED. By the way, murdering one of your fellow soldiers in wartime (that you think is acceptable way to resolve a problem) is the act of a coward and traitor, punishable by death.

Bobbie, take some good advice...quit trying to put your spin on this, you are only digging yourself a deeper hole. You will be glad to know that I am done stooping to your level of playing urinating olympics. Or to put it in words you can understand, I won't point out how stupid you are any more in public. If you want to discuss this further, take it offline, otherwise, I will ignore your posts. That is my word, which is good, unlike yours.
 
Bob,
To date, the last email communication I received from you was on 26 May 2001. Nothing on this topic at all, so it wasn't a lack of courtesy or decency, it was a simple lack of receipt (this has changed as of today, I have received two emailed replies to emails I sent to Bob- but the original one that he sent still has not arrived. It’s taken me around 12 hours to get this done to a point where I think it’s fair and even-handed and addresses all of the issues that I spotted.).

Regarding the thread in question, I'll apologize for two things:
1) I didn't give you a head's up email about what I saw as a problem after getting some complaints;
2) Not starting the sentence beginning with "Bob..." in it's own paragraph.

The little " :mad: " wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but rather at the general trend that thread was developing (snide remarks, churlish comments etc.). I should have posted this instead:
:mad: OK, that's quite enough.

Bob- if you have a problem with some dealer or distributor...
The anger was not directed squarely at you but the original way I typed it, it appeared to be.

As for the
all-wise moderator
- thanks! :D Not quite true or I wouldn’t still be working. Seriously though, you’ve been in that forum long enough to know that I rarely moderate and when I do, it’s usually for legal issues to head off potential legal problems for BFC or forumites who might couch a post in a not-so-smart-to-be-posting-publicly way. The only other time is when personality conflicts arise and those have been very scarce, thankfully. Most of the time, the auto forum is self-policing, which is the best way. This was one of those times when the self-policing didn’t work. I received several complaints and posted accordingly.

As for the way the thread was developing, or devolving might be a better term, things were not improving. The verbiage used was, if not completely inexcusable, came close to it. I realize you might have strong feelings against someone in particular- not named by you this time- but the constant digs don't belong in the generalized forums. If you have a legitimate gripe with anyone, that's what the GB&U is all about. You keep disparaging that certain someone in a public, written way, and without backing up anything, you start to look like you’re the one with an ax to grind since no one knows the details (or not many, as you say). From an outside perspective, it borders on libelous. That said, some of the responses directed towards you were also not in the best form. There was no call to question your service to your country (I thank you) and I have discussed this with John. Had I had more than half a brain, I probably would have noticed some of the tension building before now, but I’m still working on that all-knowing part. Oops. Mea culpa.

To address the rest of your post here:
Hi Tim… I would first like to say, that I’m a little angry at the way you chastised me, and no one else. I did not attack anyone until I was attacked! All I did was reply to a post that said… “What do you think of this one?” I did exactly that! Yes, I through in a dig, but I didn’t mention a name, and I didn’t even mention that it was a dealer. Why was I the brunt of your anger? Because people complained? Complained at what? Complained about my opinion? There wasn’t anything for them to complain about!Damn Tim, just read my original reply, and tell me what was so bad, that it caused these two guys’s to go on like they did?

I’ve read all your replies and at the end of the thread with the ‘Nam reference was the only real objectionable one- the most objectionable one in that thread. I saw your dig in your first post with the 300% profit comment when you posted it, but didn’t say anything. If you want my opinion, I think the extra digs tend to trivialize your salient points on topics- I’ll pay more attention to the negative connotations in your post than to your actual opinion on the knives/knife. That’s too bad, because your opinion on knives should count for something, but your point gets glossed over with your jibe. I think a lot of people might read the same way I do, but what do I know? The complaints arose after the “fragging” reference and I posted accordingly and closed the topic. The verbiage was inflammatory and uncalled for. John’s reply was also a bit intemperate, but was reserved compared to what was said about him in reply.

As for posting from “behind the monitor”:
Secondly, I don’t say anything in type that I wouldn’t say to someone’s face! I don’t hide behind my monitor! The people that know me can attest to that. I think that it was very unfair of you not to have mentioned anyone else in your thread. I don’t know how many times that I have to say, I have never attacked someone personally for what they printed, except when I was verbally abused first. You made me out to be the villain, and that was very unfair to me, and unfair for you as a moderator for doing that.
What I typed was for everyone in general. People tend to fire off a post when their blood gets up which just creates more problems. If you wait a bit to calm down or think about how your reply would sound aloud- to that person- many of the insulting and argumentative posts would never get made. That wasn’t directed at you. That’s why it was it’s own separate paragraph. I did not try to make a villain out of anyone- and will apologize this third additional time if you thought that was for you only. I just wanted to see the insulting behavior and arguments stop. I don’t mind intelligent discourse and debate but when the discussions turn to insults and mean-spiritedness, it’s time to end that discussion as nothing productive will come of it. That’s what I did by closing the thread. I’m sorry that didn’t give you the opportunity to respond. Thank you for taking it to GB&U for your reply.

If you want to continue the digs, feel free to do so here or even at Whine & Cheese, I guess. I just don’t think that the general forums- including the auto knife forum- are the place to put in digs on a dealer, distributor, maker or individual and would appreciate keeping the Auto forum clear of things like that. Also, when you signed up for BF, you agreed to their posting terms- “play nice” essentially- and that’s all I try to maintain over at the forum. I’m not foolish enough to think that saying “can’t we all just get along” is a panacea for the problem at hand, I just ask that everyone in my forum keep it civil, and think before posting something that might be objectionable.

IMO the best thing to do would be to bury the hatchet rather than grind the ax.

I’ve discussed much of this via email with both Bob and John. I just hope situations like this don’t arise again. Life’s too short to get too wound up over most things you’ll find on the net, knives included.

Hope this provides some different perspective on why I posted what I did.

As an aside to Ralph, the digs have arisen on several occasions that I’ve noticed (and others have noticed more as I don’t get to read every topic/post) and that’s what tripped a few triggers. I don’t think that there was anything wrong with Bob’s opinion on the knife at all. Heck, that knife isn’t worth $4k to me either- I’ve got better things to spend that kind of cash on. That said, I have one of Dake’s knives and they really are superbly done. Not $4000 worth of superbly done as it won’t make me breakfast, but a nice knife. The knife pictured at auction is nicer than the one I have, but I’m still of the opinion that when I drop $4k on a knife, you’ll be reading the story about my widow the next day. :) I think it was the compounding of the digs and jabs that you might not have seen in the past that got some of the knickers in a twist. Here’s to hoping that things are ironed out. That’s “All” the laundry references that I can “bleach” from this topic at this time. :D
 
Oh… My… God! Look who raised its ugly head again? Its the twenty four year veteran, that all of his men adored, and who they would die for… Here’s Johnny!:barf:<p>I see you just couldn’t stay away. That’s okay, after all this is the G, B & U, and this is the place for a post like this, Johnny boy. Let me ask you something Johnny boy; is there something going on between you and the person that you are so upset at me for? It seems that you are very upset, and very protective of him… Why? Is there something we should know here Johnny boy? Hmmm! Coming out party.:D<p>Oh well, on to some more of your complaints Johnny boy. You wrote…
<b> You said, quote, "I'm not going to reply anymore, because this is the wrong place." but didn't keep your word.</b>
<p>Well my <strike>friend</strike> Damn did I almost write that? Lets just say the G, B, &U <b>is the right place!</b> I kept my word, and brought it to the place it should be. Oh, and Johnny boy, the truth is never sympathy.<p>Well Johnny boy, you got me on the spelling… Oh well! That should justify, and support your name-calling. Lets see, I was called a <b>moron, stupid <I>(twice)</I>, stupid ass, and an idiot.</b> that hurts Johnny boy!:rolleyes: Oh yea, one point, we are not soldiers, soldiers are only in the Army… I was in the Marines! You know something Johnny boy? We came back to a country filled with people like you, people that called us stupid, idiots, and morons, and language a lot worse than that. We were hated over there, and we were hated here, and our government didn’t even fight for us, the way those 58,000 + men fought for it. Your little word attack on me just rolls off my back, because I've heard it all before, and I see where its coming from, and I just laugh.<p>You see Johnny boy, someone that does not know my little digs, <I>(that by the way I agreed to stop)</I> and that they didn’t mean anything to, the post in his mind was just fine. It’s you Johnny boy, that gets upset, and why? Does the person do things for you? You put his name out there for the formites that didn't know who he was, they only wondered with my dig.<p>Johnny boy is also a little angry with me, because I cancelled an order I had placed with him, after I found out what type of person he was. That was the best thing I did, because I got the same order from someone else for far less money. Then he still had the nerve to offer me another knife he had, and I told him that I wouldn’t buy something from him even if he beat everyone’s price. I like to deal with a person that I feel I can trust, and who is honest to everyone, and Johnny boy just was not that person for me. He also likes to protect and defend people like himself.<p><b>Thank you!</b>
 
Originally posted by Chief
....More relevant that that one thread is the continual bashing Bobbie does of Rayjay....

I do not read the Auto forum often so I cannot tell I noticed anything like that but I saw Rayjay selling $ 70.00 knife for 170.00 :(

And I also think you guys should behave more like adults. Both of you (Chief and Bob) are much older than me so I feel very bad saying this but "grow up a bit" ;). Please.

David
 
Bob, your BS indicator is on "TILT"!

:barf:

As for selling a 70.00 knife for 170.00.
What one was that? I suppose its possible
if guys get into a bidding war. Or if its
a Mikov you are refering too, I guess
Hermits time customizing it isn't worth
anything?


 
Take it offline, fellas. This isn't the "Bitch at each other for the sake of bitching" forum.

Keep it to deals that have gone on already, or feedback on sellers / buyers.

Kevin
 
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