My son the marine gets caught with a KaBar in his dorm room

[Gunfucius]

ReconRanger and Esav:

Are you saying that colleges will go so far as to destroy personal property just so they can perform a random search? That doesn't sound legal to me. Maybe if they had probable cause, it could be allowable, but in the event of a random search, that's going too far.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

ReconRanger and Esav:

Are you saying that colleges will go so far as to destroy personal property just so they can perform a random search? That doesn't sound legal to me. Maybe if they had probable cause, it could be allowable, but in the event of a random search, that's going too far.

probable cause applies to a peace officer making an arrest. it does not apply to an administrative search, especially when agreed to by the occupant. the search should never damage private property, though. any that requires such should be conducted by law enforcement and a warrant obtained even if reasonable suspicion exists, even if the warrant is not needed for the search.

colleges and universities are for all intents and purposes, private property. there are laws which apply specifically to all school sites, but individual schools may have their own restrictions.

by attending a university, and especially when living on campus, it is implied that one is accepting policies and procedures of that particular school.

however in this case, it appears to be an application of the "letter of the law" vs. "the spirit of the law".

the commemorative kabar is primarily a decorative piece to remind the owner of his service to his country.

rules are rules, and a zero tolerance policy should be adhered to if one exists, but imo this is a misapplication of the rule.

 

[Grey Mullet]

In this dorm do they have cooking and eating areas? What do people use to cut their steaks or tomatoes or birthday cakes. My guess is this was not the only knife seen in the dorms, but that it was singled out because it was associated with a military in a very unpopular war.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

In this dorm do they have cooking and eating areas? What do people use to cut their steaks or tomatoes or birthday cakes. My guess is this was not the only knife seen in the dorms, but that it was singled out because it was associated with a military in a very unpopular war.

im thinking it is just tunnel vision.

he should be told to take it somewhere else and leave it there, no further action required.

 

[stabman]

I agree.
I can't think of a legitimate non-weapon use for a Ka-Bar in a dorm room.

It's a collectible in that situation, same as a sword is in Canada.
Here, were not allowed weapons. We ARE allowed tools, sporting implements, and collectibles. A gun is a sporting implement for the sport of hunting or target shooting. A sword can be a collectible or a sporting item for the sporting practice of martial arts(which is often classed as a sport).
How can you say what you said and then see a problem with what the Brits have done regarding knives or guns? THEY don't see a "legitimate" use for those things, and the law is applied to all, so I guess it's fair.
The whole point should be that you are allowed to have the things you wish as long as you are not being a threat to others, an ACTUAL threat.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Gunfucius, we were talking about robbery, not security officers of any kind.

Taking his Ka-Bar was tunnel vision. Taking his multitool was simply wrong. Zero Tolerance doesn't have to mean Maximum Consequences. They could have given him a warning, especially considering the bitter irony of a "marine gets caught with a KaBar".

This sort of unthinking decision-making process often ends up embarrassing the institution. Maybe an email campaign would do some good. Let's see if they think their way through to a more generous conclusion first, though.

 

[ziptrickhead]

Depends on if where he lives has kitchens I guess. At my school, not are dorms are considered "cooking dorms" and require a meal plan (for those not in cooking dorms). Still, I guess the school wouldn't freak out about a kitchen knife as much as a Ka Bar.

No offense, but you really shouldn't be displaying knives on any campus that has weapons rules, especially if you know when they'll do health and safety searches. We get a 24 hr warning before the inspections so when I see the signs I try to be in the room but all my stuff in put into a drawer with clothing covering it (they can't open your closet or drawers, basically no touch only see kinda thing.)

 

[Grey Mullet]

I hope things work out for him. You have to be very careful these days. Lots of people have given up on common sense and justice, all they want now is zero tolerance.

 

[Gunfucius]

Gunfucius, we were talking about robbery, not security officers of any kind.

Well that's good to hear at least. (The fact that they can't vandalize your propery for a search, not the robbery part.) You guys had me goin' there for a while.

 

[Uri]

They are punishing a person not for a crime committed, and not for an intent to commit a crime, but only for a potential opportunity to commit such. If taken further, why not ban owning a penis on the grounds that it could potentially be used to commit a crime. Or impose length restrictions

 

[MORIMOTOM]

They are punishing a person not for a crime committed, and not for an intent to commit a crime, but only for a potential opportunity to commit such. If taken further, why not ban owning a penis on the grounds that it could potentially be used to commit a crime. Or impose length restrictions

well not exactly. if it is illegal to have the knife on campus property, he did commit a crime with general intent.

if it is not illegal, but against the rules, law enforcement should not have been involved at all, and any punishment is administrative.

 

[Uri]

They are punishing a person not for a crime committed, and not for an intent to commit a crime, but only for a potential opportunity to commit such. If taken further, why not ban owning a penis on the grounds that it could potentially be used to commit a crime. Or impose length restrictions

 

[mr.trooper]

What the fuss is about is that he is not living in his home. He is living in on-campus housing being provided by the school, and subject to school regulations of what's allowed on campus.

When i was living on campus there were provisions for such things. Our dorm sup kept our knives swords and air guns locked up, and we could get them from him whenever we needed them.

Firearms were allowed, but had to be kept in lock boxes in the campus police building. They could be retrieved from your lock box when you needed them for a hunting or target shooting trip.

 

[Bufford]

After wading through this thread, I can say that things have changed an awful lot since I went to university- Lakehead in Thunder bay. Back in the 70's I was on several field trips with the departments of Biology, Geology, and Geography. It was common to see both students and Proffessors carry either folders or fixed blades on their belt. My Biology prof carried what looked like a small fixed blade 3-4 inch long Pukko and was always using it to cut specimens for classwork. I carried my buck 110 on these trips, and often had it on my belt in class. Nobody gave it a second look.

Security in those days was nothing more than a small room in the basement, and most of the staff were old retired police officers, that were friendly, and non threatening. In those days it was pretty quiet and laid back. Have times ever changed.

 

[mp510]

well not exactly. if it is illegal to have the knife on campus property, he did commit a crime with general intent.

if it is not illegal, but against the rules, law enforcement should not have been involved at all, and any punishment is administrative.

One of the biggest problems with the confiscation and potential administrative punishmens is that one of the knives appears to permissible, according to the university policies. Unfortunately, unless the issue is really pressed, nobody will be reprimanded for their partially bad acts.

Oftentimes, university police departments are used as enforcement arms by campus administrators. It's not uncommon at all.

Hopefully, they will take the kids intent and history into consideration, and give him a light penalty- especially if he's never done anything wrong before (that's on the record that is). Keep us updated on how this situation pans out.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

One of the biggest problems with the confiscation and potential administrative punishmens is that one of the knives appears to permissible, according to the university policies. Unfortunately, unless the issue is really pressed, nobody will be reprimanded for their partially bad acts.

Oftentimes, university police departments are used as enforcement arms by campus administrators. It's not uncommon at all.

Hopefully, they will take the kids intent and history into consideration, and give him a light penalty- especially if he's never done anything wrong before (that's on the record that is). Keep us updated on how this situation pans out.

Agreed. campus police are not campus security. while the expectations and duties of law enforcement are often vague and wide ranging, administrators can forget they are not the same as private security whose job is simply to enforce a company policy.

it didnt appear there was any attempt to pursue criminal charges, and hopefully any administrative action will be minimal.

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

the commemorative kabar is primarily a decorative piece to remind the owner of his service to his country.

rules are rules, and a zero tolerance policy should be adhered to if one exists, but imo this is a misapplication of the rule.

Was it a mint commemorative in a latched glass-covered display case? Or was it a user hanging on a nail in the wall? May not be a big deal regarding "zero tolerance", but an obvious display piece -- combined with his military service -- are extenuating circumstances that would favor him if the only issue was "student with prohibited weapon." Display cases could be locked or epoxied shut . . . or item could be stowed in a footlocker or sent home. He may be asked to remove item from campus, but if they threaten any sort of penalization threaten to take his case to the media.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Was it a mint commemorative in a latched glass-covered display case? Or was it a user hanging on a nail in the wall? May not be a big deal regarding "zero tolerance", but an obvious display piece -- combined with his military service -- are extenuating circumstances that would favor him if the only issue was "student with prohibited weapon." Display cases could be locked or epoxied shut . . . or item could be stowed in a footlocker or sent home. He may be asked to remove item from campus, but if they threaten any sort of penalization threaten to take his case to the media.

the op mentioned it as memorabilia, but im not sure.

shouldnt matter, as you say, the students miliitary service should mitigate any rules violation.

 

[Grey Mullet]

the op mentioned it as memorabilia, but im not sure.

shouldnt matter, as you say, the students miliitary service should mitigate any rules violation.

It would be nice to think it would count in his favor, but for some people a Veteran with a knife equals Rambo.

Don't believe it could count against him? FYI, the very same school has a fencing team.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

It would be nice to think it would count in his favor, but for some people a Veteran with a knife equals Rambo.

Don't believe it could count against him? FYI, the very same school has a fencing team.

ironical, isnt it?


some people will always think of a veteran as the homeless nutjob wearing his ribbons on his tshirt sqauking about vietnam.