My thoughts on a Chris Reeve verses a Rick Hinderer

I own both knives. As a collector I like both knives - But .....

As a user, I only ever carry a sebenza because it simply does every thing I would need a folding knife to do. In my mind there is no comparison when it comes to having a reliable every day user in your pocket.

I'm really not sure what the XM18 was designed for!! It's too chunky for comfortable pocket carry, the blade is too thick and (for me at least) the ergonomics are not as comfortable as a sebenza. If I were a soldier or had some other job that required me to rely on a knife I would not have a folder, I would have a fixed blade with a full tang made from high quality materials.

Lastly, because of Hinderers marketing / sales strategy, their knives are too expensive by the time they hit the retail market. I know it's a different price if your are a LEO or soldier or you can go to the auctions but that is not everybody.

At least we all get the same price with CRK :):)
 
pry with a sebenza and then pry with the xm18. See which one bends and deforms faster. Both are good knives for different applications
 
^^^
The 3.5" Hinderer XM was the original design(with spanto tip). Rick was and may very well still be a volunteer fireman. The knife was designed to be able to pry open doors and cut seat belts and such. Thus the over built design. The average person really doen't need this ability, but that won't stop us from buying.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
^^^
The 3.5" Hinderer XM was the original design(with spanto tip). Rick was and may very well still be a volunteer fireman. The knife was designed to be able to pry open doors and cut seat belts and such. Thus the over built design. The average person really doen't need this ability, but that won't stop us from buying.
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I just have one thing to say about the prying, a hinder has 2 slabs of titanium but on one side the titanium is thick as a penny, the rest of the handle is g10 or in some cases carbon fiber. I think that the thin piece of titanium would bend. the blade might not but the handle will. frame locks are made with titanium for a reason, titanium bends easy. You can bend titanium many times without any breaking point unlike hardened steel. The knife is cool, but for the intended use I would like to see if it can live up to its standered. as far as seat belt cuting I have a spyderco dyad that has 2 blade one is a flat grind and the other is a full serrated sheeps foot. the sheeps foot will cut through a seatbelt like nothing. I have done this and took 2 sec., deployment and all. I am not trying to mock anyone, but saying one thing and sometimes the facts tell you different.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
^^^
The 3.5" Hinderer XM was the original design(with spanto tip). Rick was and may very well still be a volunteer fireman. The knife was designed to be able to pry open doors and cut seat belts and such. Thus the over built design. The average person really doen't need this ability, but that won't stop us from buying.
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There is a bit of wishful thinking in your post. I bet I could break an XM18 (or any other folder) by prying a door open.
 
What is this spring we speak of in the Hinder XM's? :confused:

Today I rocked an XM-24 on a shopping trip with my wife including walking through a Wal-Mart Super Center and I never even noticed it except for one "trousers hike" late in the game and on the way out to the car. Gravity wins!

:p :D
 
cziv said:
What is this spring we speak of in the Hinder XM's? :confused:

Today I rocked an XM-24 on a shopping trip with my wife including walking through a Wal-Mart Super Center and I never even noticed it except for one "trousers hike" late in the game and on the way out to the car. Gravity wins!

:p :D
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the spring is the groove in the lockbar, I am not sure if this answers you
 
I have heard statements from LEO of doing such prying. When I speak of prying, I am speaking of the 3.5" which is a beast compared to the 3". The 3" is closer to a simple pocket knife. I am not trying to promote the Hinderer in any way, just trying to add a little insight.
 
Reeve is a great guy and makes equally great knives. Hinderer is an awesome guy and makes equally awesome knives. We can go on endlessly about who likes which better.

Had cofade not picked on my dress clothes comment, I would not have posted this one.

I feel this thread may drift way negative and to what end?

I like "X", you like "X", in the end...both makers create great knives.

Now go flick open your CRKs and beat the heck out of them...
 
Although my EDC needs aren't hard use; as a blade enthusiast, I appreciate quality, especially when it's American Made. However, I'm not going to support a market whereby the price of admission exceeds the base price in which the Manafacturer has established. In other words, why in the world would I pay more for the knife than what Mr. Hinderer himself thinks they're worth? = That just doesn't compute.:confused:

But, it's a free market and to each his or her own. No harm in overpaying for a product, right? ~ Maybe, maybe not. I'm not suggesting that they're not worth $800+ to the person paying such a premium, sometimes there is no limit to get what you want, so long as you have the funds. But, when an overpriced market is supported, it's at the expense of growing an even more expansive customer base. i.e. folks like me, as I'm sure I'm not alone in my sentiments.

Same scenario with Harley Davidson, back when you had to go on a waiting list for the priviledge to overpay above MSRP for it. I didn't waiver on my stance back then either; but, 20 years later (when reality within the marketplace kicked-in), I finally purchased my Harley. I'm a patient man, perhaps in 20 years, there will be a realignment and I'll finally get an opportunity to purchase one of Mr. Hinderer's masterpieces at the price in which it belongs within the marketplace. Hmm, 24 prior years in the U.S. Navy; I should have thought about this sooner.:)

I still know plenty of Active Military & LEO and could easily arrange an MSRP purchase. But, I respect Mr. Hinderer's business model (although I don't like it) and would never abuse it for personal gain, unlike the resale end of the market. No, I'm not condemning the resale strategy; indeed, it's only human nature to get while the getting is good, I'm just telling it like it is.

Sorry for the long rant, got a little carried away. Time to take the Zaan on his evening walk.;)
 
Peter Hartwig said:
I have heard statements from LEO of doing such prying. When I speak of prying, I am speaking of the 3.5" which is a beast compared to the 3". The 3" is closer to a simple pocket knife. I am not trying to promote the Hinderer in any way, just trying to add a little insight.
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I am also not trying to promote Chris Reeve, I have not held a 3.5 I was more talking about fit and finish. I was just wondering how many guys pry doors with their knives??? Claims made by a knife company is intended for selling product. I don't remember one statement stated on CRK website. Quality is what sells CRK knives. I am going to make a statement I don't want to offend anyone, but Chris Reeve is the founder of the frame lock, so I think he knows a thing or two about it. All companies are just imitating what he has profected.
 
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US-STEEL said:
I'm not going to support a market whereby the price of admission exceeds the base price in which the Manafacturer has established. In other words, why in the world would I pay more for the knife than what Mr. Hinderer himself thinks they're worth? = That just doesn't compute.:confused:
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You're not paying more than what Rick thinks they're worth. He makes these knives, XM folders, at a price which is discounted for a certain type of person. These folks are first responders.

If you check "his dealers" lists, they charge the high aftermarket prices that are seen in the exchange as well. Rick said that his prices are set for Military, LEO, firefighters and other 1st responders and what anyone else pays to obtain one is strictly "none of his concern."

If you aren't among the elite men and women who put their lives at risk for you and I, then you must pay the going rate for the knife. The dealers and others who decide to sell their XM's for, is the price you're used to seeing and must pay.

I don't think that's hard to understand. If you qualify to buy one from him then you pay the lower price - as a privilege. Others must buy on the secondary market or win a raffle or bid on one at auctions held at gatherings and on other forums.

Rick makes masterpieces when it comes to full custom and other designs he's created over the year. I've seen many of his fully custom and some prototype XM's go for $4K to $5K. :eek: At that price the bidding and dollar signs are flying - believe me it's unbelievable to watch the bidding if you haven't followed one.

Add to that, royalties on his wildly popular collaborations help pay the bills. Ricks direct prices for Military and LEO's - as far as I can surmise, don't pay his bills but are a gift price for the service of qualifying men and women. The rest of us have to pay the secondary price.

Will Hinderer come out with their own full production model as he briefly made mention of? I don't know, but I hope so. ;)
 
Cofade-nothing wrong with your being a fan of CR knives, this is his forum after all and at least most of us are big fans also. I personally don't pry with a knife XM included. I have other tools handy for such things and would only do it in an emergency.Even if the knife is capable I have very little inclination to use a $700 pry tool when I have a $10 close. From what I gather form my reading of threads-prying does come up a fair bit for LEO's, military and such-there situations are more spur of the moment.
 
My thoughts on prying. Yes if a pry bar or other more appropriate tool is handy, that's the one to use.

With an "overbuilt" knife it's not about using it as your go-to prying tool.

It's about situations where everything is FUBAR and all you have are your training, your personal ability and the items in your pocket.

When all cards are on the table and life is on the line...that's when "overbuilt" comes into play. Some tools will fail. Others are less likely. I purchase the best tools I can for the tasks both known and unexpected.

Again, both brands are excellent. To each his/her own.
 
I have all the mentioned knives and a lot of them. I also have the newer Striders, which I am VERY IMPRESSED with their new lock face and increased QC. IMHO, Strider rivals Hinderer now.
XM's and Sebenza's are different animals. It all depends on what your use will be and that will determine which knife is the best. I don't need the stoutness of my Striders or Hinderers but I greatly appreciate their quality and design. if my finances hit a cliff and I had to sell off most of my collection, my CRK's would stay with me.
Now, that's not to say that the Sebenza is the best but it is the most practical of the bunch, carries extremely well and the design is easily serviceable. I do hate the secondary market price of the XM's but if CR would just build a knife with better steel with sprint runs, I guarantee that the Sebenza secondary market price would climb. Let's say CR did sprint runs of about 200 "regular Sebenza's using better steels that did't dull sitting in your pocket, everyone would be talking more about CRK. We will never get it as I feel CR is winding down and no successor in position.
 
All I know is that a Hinderer XM is worth the cost of a Sebenza all day anyday. They are both amazing and each have their unique superior qualities over each other. I think it's insane to pay the near 3x mark up on Hinderers. I mean its pretty disgusting that you could get an Strider SNG AND a CRK Sebenza for the cost of 1 XM-18... I paid $575 for my XM-18 3.5 inch flipper nearly 2 years ago and I probably would not puchase another even at that price. I just think that CRK, Strider, and Hinderer are all in the same tier so I cant justify paying more for one of them.
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinion.

At the end, 'All good, just different'.
 
I pry open doors several times a week. (not really)
And I make great knives, but I only sell them to repo men and taxi drivers incase the first responsers dont make it in time to pry the doors open. Otherwise...they could just push them at double the retail price since they're the only ones who can buy them.
I refuse to pay double what I paid for my CRK when there are so many more great options for more reasonable prices.
And no im not knocking the XM because ive handled them and I appreciate the quality, but I refuse to pay twice what a knife is actually worth.
 
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