My Urban Survival Pack: improvement suggestions sought!

While it's true, TO A DEGREE, that having a weapon might make one a little less rabbit-like while fleeing, it's also true that as a rational adult, you can over-ride these feelings. I think that the best "compromise" is a small .22lr pistol, such as an HP-22. Small enough to keep in a pocket, out of sight, so that you don't LOOK armed, small enough so that you don't feel like playing Jesse James, but big enough to take a rabbit for the pot, or defend yourself in a pinch.

The one constant in a true survival situation is uncertainty. If we knew all the answers ahead of time, it wouldn't be a survival problem; we'd just stay away. So a little insurance is always a good bet.
 
D7reamers wrote:

forget the cash. get some gold coins.
It will have more worth then paper money if hell arrives.
just be cafeful of who you show these to.

I'd have to say I couldn't disagree more. While gold is appropriate for long term storage as a hedge against some type of long term economic calamity, it would be totally useless in many emergency situations.

Most people aren't willing to take gold for goods now, and until some sort of major economic collapse, the only viable place to exchange it is a pawn shop or coin dealer. Needless to say, the exchange rate at these places will favor the buyer. Cash (in the currently accepted currency) and extra supplies would be much easier to barter with in a short term situation.

Originally posted by RokJok
{Rave Mode Begin} If anyone wants goodwill in an emergency, give it to them. Right to the hilt or to the last round in the magazine, depending on whether there is a knife or a gun in hand at the time.

Let me put this real bluntly, lest anyone misinterpret my point. We are talking emergency situations here, not a picnic. If you are sharing your EMERGENCY supplies with anyone at all, it had better be the person you are married to only so you won't have to explain being greedy & not sharing when you eventually get home once everything has settled down. Anyone else is on their own!!!
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RokJok,
If all hell has broken loose, you are doubtless correct. Your first responsibility is to yourself and to your family. The problem with that philosophy is knowing exactly when all hell has broken loose. Going back to work a week or so after some emergency to some office mate who you left in dire straights could present some problems. In the case of a longer term problem, you may need those people, and starving them to death definitely puts a damper on your relationship :rolleyes: One of the reasons we've survived so long as a species is because were social animals capable of working together.

Just my opinion,
Patrick
 
Outdoors, you are right. American currency is the hardest currency in and throughout most of the world now. I'll go with it.

I'd like to have a good dog with me too. I know, they can't go in a bag. 15000 years of evolution has proved their worth in survival situations.

This is a great thread with lots of valuable thoughts.

And don't forget that hat!!!
 
I still haven't gotten around to putting together a BOB, but I was curious, Since some of you guys are carrying handguns in your packs (my dad carried his llamma 9mm in a hidden pouch behind the back of his head) do you guys also have a ccw for it?



Also, instead of the handgun, why not get an AR-7 rifle with the pistol grip stock? I have had mine for about 3 years now, and it was built by Armalite back in 1977, and it still is an accurate little plinker.


(that and with it dissasembled, I think that you could somehow get away with it if you were questioned) (I think)


Also, what about roadflares as a light source, and a heat source, I remember a while back in an offroading magazine, where they mentioned welding something up using a soda can and a roadflare.
 
Very interesting group here. This is my first post to this group but I feel I need to address a few things. I’m also speaking from experience when it comes to urban survival/catastrophes. I live in Kobe, Japan, and lived there January 17th, 1995 when the big earthquake hit. I lived next to the expressway that fell over, dug people out of homes that collapsed, tried to figure out what was going on (I didn’t speak Japanese at the time) and even carried my dead friend on the front door of her house.

First rule when preparing your kit (DO NOT expect the government or emergency agencies to respond quickly!) In Japan, it was notoriously slow. It took a week before food, water, or any help at all came. The Yakuza (Japanese Mafia) used speed boats to bring in food, water and supplies to SHARE with the people the DAY the quake hit. I wouldn’t count on this either. By the way, they gave it away and didn’t sell it at an inflated price!

A good prybar is a must. Your knife won’t do it. Even a large heavy bladed knife won’t substitute for a good prybar, axe, or hatchet.
A hand operated chain saw. These are small and cut very well. It is essentially a modified chainsaw chain with handles.
Water, water, water, and more water. You can go a surprising long time without food, but dehydration can set in fast especially considering that most people walk around a bit dehydrated to start with.

For flashlights, get a Sure Fire. I carry an E1, a 6P, and have a 9P at home. The batteries in lithium flashlights have a shelf life of 10 years, are not effected by cold, are small and easy to carry. You will need a BRIGHT light. If you want to test this, go out into the woods on a moonless night and try making your way for awhile. In a major quake, you have phone/power lines hanging at neck level, a dangerous footing and you need to see farther than your feet. A mini maglight is horrible in this situation. It does not give nearly enough light to make your way through a city that has been effectively destroyed.
Sure Fire sells a battery pack with led that is a good backup for batteries and will give a very small amount of light for days. I recommend it.

Gloves. Have a good pair of leather work gloves that you have previously broken in. You wouldn’t go walking around without shoes on in an emergency so why would you leave your hands unprotected?

Knife. A small folding, one hand opening knife is ideal. Must have a lockable blade. An insulated handle is also a must for cutting any live wires, so some Spyderco models are out. Be careful that the metal liners in the knife handle are completely covered by the outside plastic/rubber etc. Absolutely carry a sharpening stone. Practice sharpening BEFORE you are in an emergency and need to. Practice on the knife you carry. Honing your cutlery at home and sharpening a dinged and worn knife in the field are not the same thing.

One last thing, I do believe that the every man for himself idea is utterly selfish. I gave away several items in the Kobe quake. I even gave my only camping stove to a family I pulled out of their house and I expected nothing in return. They needed it. They had children, I didn’t. “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you… or your loved ones.” How would you feel if your wife or family died because someone refused to share with them? Yes, my wife had problems with this (she wasn’t my wife at the time and I didn’t even know her then) but some people refused to share food with her. I consider these people sub-human. You will not survive without the help of others. If you are trapped in a building and can’t get out as the fires are coming (I was there, I saw it) and people leave because they think it’s too dangerous to help you…you die. You will need others help.
Lastly, does your wife, parents, children carry the same things as you? Probably not. What would someone’s help be worth to you for them helping your family in an emergency?

Enough ranting. Be prepared yourself, and be prepared to help others, you may need their help as well.

D. Thorpe
Kobe, Japan
 
Some great suggestions ouchicutmyself. One question: do you have a suggestion as to what types of insulated one hand opening knives are available?
 
guncollector,

i too am in the bay area and can safely say you are not going to need a compass in the city.

the main problems i can think of that you'll encounter in an office catastrophe will be poor ventilation (due to smoke, dust, debris), low light (electrical failure), threatening temperatures (i.e. fire), unstable structures/falling debris (earthquake), and being trapped. I think if you plan around these threats you will find yourself better prepared.

As someone mentioned earlier, ditch the blister stuff and band aids in the first aid kit for trauma medication. i'd get some percocet or vicodin for painkillers, some cipro or zithromax (antibiotics). maybe an epi-pen in case you need an adrenaline shot, some glucose, maybe some lidocaine and sutures if you think you might have to stitch something. chances are though that unless you get knocked out or get stuck in an artery, you are not going to think about putting on a knuckle shaped band aid or some moleskin. incidentally, you will need to get the epipen, vicodin, etc. from a doctor as none of that is over the counter.

i'd also include some leather gloves in case you have to dislodge some debris to escape a building. a small crow bar will also fit nicely in a small backpack and can be had for a few bucks at home depot.

i'd ditch the 16.9 oz bottles for a nalgene bottle so if your bag gets banged up you aren't going to spill your water. don't know if it's been mentioned but a petzl tikka LED headlamp will be better than a photon because it will free your hands (it only weighs 3 oz. to boot!).

I'd also get a couple cyalume sticks too because they last several hours and may help someone find you if you are trapped in a mess of debris and can't scream, whistle, or keep your flashlight on once the adrenaline rush settles and you are seriously fatigued.

just my 2 cents.
 
I carry a CS Recon 1. It has a Zytel handle that covers the inside steel plates. The rivets on the side however are the problem. It is possible to hold the knife without touching any metal and still have a good enough grasp to cut a wire, depending of course on how bit that wire is.
At least with this knife, it is possible to hold it without touching metal, but something like the Spyderco Police with stainless sides...I wouldn't go cutting wires with that (this was the knife I had durring the quake).
I found that in the quake in Kobe, the power was not cut to the buildings until later in the day (at least where I was) and we still had some water pressure, but that didn't last long. (Be sure to fill up your bathtub with water after a quake if you can.)
 
As an amateur techie, I urge against the use of any knife to cut wires- household current can arc ten cm, much less the scant 1-2 cm of saftey that a knife provides.

A good pair of insulated wire cutters wieghs mere ounces and can be had for under $20 at your local hardware supplier.
 
I wanted to bring this thread back up for those that missed it or those that wanted to add something. I just read through it again, a lot of good information. I will be going through my bob to make some changes. I think I will be adding a small pry bar, probably some powdered gatorade also. Thanks:)
 
Guncollector,
First off , I applaude your forethought and I think that you've got a great idea. However, I have a few suggestions and minor criticisms. (BTW- I am a custom holstermaker by trade and as such have had a fair amount of tactical training. I will share some of that with you.)

Get some sound tactical training from a world class shooting school/instructor - NOT your local gunshop commando "expert". Look up Gunsite Ranch, John Farnam's DTI, Thunder Ranch, David Blinder, Chuck Taylor, Gabe Suarez or Louis Awerbach - any of these people will be able to teach you skills that you will desperately need to survive an armed attack. I grew up shooting starting at age 4, believe it or not. However, ten minutes into my first tactical handgun class made me realize that I knew absolutely nothing about self defense.

Get a concealed weapon permit. A weapon will do you no good if you cannot have it with you, and risking a felony charge is simply insane.

Add a decent defensive handgun, minumum of 4 magazines and 100 rounds of hollowpoint ammunition to your gear. My suggestion would be to go with a 9mm, unless you are a very experienced shooter. Under conditions of stress, hunger, fatigue (and possible injury) you will shoot it alot better than a larger caliber. A solid hit with a 9mm Cor-Bon or Hydra-Shok beats hell out of a miss with a .45. (You will be able to carry a lot more 9mm ammo for the same weight too). Get a good concealment holster, belt and mag pouch and (after getting instruction) practice with it until you don't want to even look at it - then practice with it some more.

Lose the alice pack - it screams "survivalist" and you will either be targeted by law enforcement or by terrified masses of sheeple, or
both. Get a nice yuppie looking daypack. Blend in.

Add leather work gloves and safety glasses to your gear, along with a
lightweight prybar. These will be worth their weight in gold if you have to dig yourself or someone else out from under post earthquake rubble, or jimmy a wedged door open to escape a building.

Add more water to your gear - in an urban environment with no electricity, it will be very difficult to find. During Hurricane Andrew in S. Fl, water hit something like $25 a gallon - when it could be found. (Which for a while was almost never).

Lost the big, monster flashlight. Someone suggested earlier a SureFire as a relacement - I could not agree more. A super bright, reliable tactical light is a great defensive tool, (in addition to being priceless when it comes to finding one's way out of a dark building, tunnel, parking garage, crashed aircraft, etc.) A small Photon II around the neck is also a great idea - get the red LED-it won't do too much to harm your night vision, and will be much less likely to attract unwanted attention.

I also agree wholeheartedly that you should get some training and add rappel gear (separate bag, in your office). You won't need to carry it around. You'll either use it to escape at the onset of "events", or it will sit there and gather dust. However, if you do need it, nothing else will do. Do not use military "greenline" or it's civilian counterpart "goldline". These ropes have outdates, and they are usually sold surplus after these have been exceeded. Get a 9mm-11mm Kernmantle static line.

Choose fleece (ie: Polartec) for warmth, with a breathable shell garment.

The Becker Companion is a good choice for your purposes. However, factory knives are heat treated in large batches and as a result, they sometimes vary in strength. Ethan (Becker) will replace any broken/damaged blade. Get one in advance, and abuse the hell out of it. If it does not break, resharpen it and toss it in your bag. If it does, then get a new one and try again.

Also, get a really good folding knife and carry it with you religiously. I would recommend a Spyderco if you want a great knife on a budget. A Benchmade AFCK in M2 steel would be even better. A Chris Reeve Sebenza would be tops.

Choose foods that do not require preparation - the light of a fire will attract unwanted (and perhaps deadly) attention from others (in the case of an earthquake, you might also set off explosions due to ruptured gas lines). Try your very best to go un-noticed as you make your way home.

Speaking of home, make sure that your wife is also properly trained and armed. It would be tragic indeed to finally make your way back only to find her having been harmed or killed by societies "jackals" in your absence.

I guess this is long enough. I hope that it helped a bit. After seeing the film footage of the WTC on 911, I wish that every American woud do what you are doing. God bless!
 
I would forget the D-cell flashlight and get one of the L.E.D. flash lights that use AA batteries. Surefire light are bright but they run through batteries. You will save space and weight as well as using the same bateries for the radio and the light. You may want to look at a small radio with a built in generator as well as solar panel. I have 2 which also use AA bateries. You may also like to include a weather radio. I would also carry at least 2 of the 1qt canteens. You should think about taking 2 qt's for each day. Water that is available to run through a filter may be contaminated and unfit for consumption even after filtering due to chemical attack. You may want to think about a collapsable walking stick which can aid you in the event your leg is injured. It can also be used for a weapon and as a pole to help you with making shelter. Weapon with extra ammo is always a good thing.Iagree with Brommeland about the training but prefer the .45 myself. Use the weapon with which you feel comfortable. And get quality instruction on using the firearm. I would also loose the Alice pack and replace it with a quality day pack.
Just my $0.02
 
Great Thread...and a great time to bring it up again.

Guncollector- I too live in a major city in California, Los Angeles. I feel that living in such a restrictive state puts us at somewhat of a disadvantage, especially considering how much more dangerous the reality of a catastrophe situation in a major west coast city is likely to be. It seems that it does not take much to start rioting/looting here.

There are three items that I have included in my kit you might want to consider.

1). A good compact shovel, like the Cold Steel Special Forces shovel. It could prove useful in prying/digging out of an earthquake type situation. Also, in a pinch it could make a good self defense weapon...one that would not likely be confiscated on sight by well intentioned law enforcement as a large sheath knife likely would. On that note, you would do well keep a large and potentially threatening knife out of sight.

2). A good brand of OC pepper spray, the sort with a concentrated stream. It is effective at a greater distance, and may discourage a problem before damaging contact force is required.

3). A good walking staff like the 6' Cold Steel Lahti. Finding a good support in the city may be difficult if you have an injured leg. Not to mention it makes a very good defensive weapon with a good reach and would not likely be confiscated as mentioned above.

Just some thoughts...
 
You may want to include some plastic-baggied paperwork (toilet, reading, and documents) in your kit. Might I suggest a gym bag with a shiny, happy logo on it? Kinda hard to keep an ALICE in your office, as previously noted.

There's a good artical in the latest issue of Blade regarding BOBs. The author makes a very good point about drawing a line between camping kits and OMG equipment, made me rethink my own setup.
 
You may want to consider the following -

Safety glasses are good, but you may want to go to goggles if you're concerned about building evac/rescue. The goggles will provide better protection against dust/debris.

Get a good chin strap system for the hard hat and mount a bright lite on it. Other helmets may not withstand as much impact and provide a false sense of protection. As an alternative consider a whitewater kayak helmet. While more expensive they provide more coverage and I know how much abuse they will take. I don't know if the better bike helmets serve as well.

Limit first aid to trauma treatment. No drugs that impair thinking. Don't start out using improvised dressings. Ace bandage wrapped around a QuikClot packet, 4X4, (4)Povidone/Iodine Prep packets makes a small wound kit. Ibuprofin for inflamation and pain.

Cheap security screamers are very effective in getting attention. Back it up with a Storm Whistle. I like the cyalum sticks as well. Any light in the dark is a great moral booster.

You may want to add a bike to your car kit. If you can get out of the building you may not be able to get through the roads with a car, but a dual use or mtn. bike can go a long way toward getting you back home.

WRT firearms, I question the need for lots of ammuntion. You're not going to be living off the land nor are you going to be repelling Mongol hordes, you're going E&E. How much is enough? What caliber? How to carry? 3 mags/9+mm/IWB or fanny pack is my approach, but then TN is a shall issue CCW state. Lot's of training is required. Brommeland had very good advice (the ammo is the only difference).

Others have offered great, or not;), suggestions. The best is training.

Luck.

Mike
 
Just some thoughts.

During the WTC massacre the cell phone system in NYC was completely useless. The repeaters were destroyed. During the recent blackout it happened again. Don't count on cell phones being of any use.

Additionally, the NYPD radio communications went down for awhile. Seems the battery backup for the system quickly died so NYPD central command could not communicate with the officers on the street.

Take your bug out bag and go into the wilderness for 3 days. See if you can live with it for the full time period. If so, it indicates you might have the right stuff packed away.
 
Hi guys!
Man, I'm learnin' a lot here. The hardhat/helmet with a light was a great idea. So was the bicycle idea.
I guess that I want to clarify the weapon/ammo thing a bit. My understanding is that this is an urban B.O.B. I did not suggest the pistol for foraging, but rather for self defense in an urban environment without any law enforcement aid available. My concern would be riots/looting/and gangs of freaked out people acting in an irrational, violent way.
Stealth would be my first approach - it is ALWAYS best to avoid a fight if possible. However, if you find yourself in the midst of something like the L.A. riots, even 100 rounds will seem pretty insufficient. Particularliy if you have multiple engagements of multiple attackers during your 72 hour trek home.
The other point that I'd like to mention again is the Surefire tactical light. A small LED light is fine for poking around at night, trying to find something in your pack, or avoiding gaping cracks in the pavement (earthquake). The purpose of the Surefire is tactical, as in self defense. You have a moral obligation (as well as a legal one) to identify a target (and what lies beyond it) before you open fire. Most self defense situations occur at night. A Surefire 6 volt light puts out slightly more light than a 5 D-cell mag light with a krypton bulb. It allows you to ID your potential target and prevent shooting an innocent person by mistake. It will also temporarily blind your opponent under low light conditions, long enough for you to take them out before they have any real chance of reacting, should circumstances warrant it. The batteries are cheap ($15 for 12 batteries at SureFire's website), and they make a carrier that holds 6 spare cells, and a lamp module. The whole thing combined will weigh less than a 2 D-cell flashlight(the light itself, AND the loaded spares carrier), and put out way, way more light. The lithium batteries can also stand to sit in your pack for years, enduring both heat and cold, and will still put out power when you need them. Try that with an alkaline battery, and you'll have a dead light at best, and a pack full of battery acid at worst.
There are also tactics for shooting an attacker in an urban environment that will minimize the possibility of hitting a bystander standing beyond your intended target, in the event that you miss or the bullet over-penetrates. That's the stuff that tactical pistolcraft classes are made of. Again, I recommend them highly.
I guess that I've rambled on long enough for now. Great thread! Keep it going!
 
My line of thinking is...

If you have a chain of thoughts... On your person items, office, car, house... relative/friends houses if they are on the way to where ever...

If you can make it out to the car, an its in decent shape being the roads are clear... you've got an out!

1 day for the person
3 for the office
6 for the car
and as long as the food lasts at the house...

I'm still trying to think this one through... but it makes the most sense to me so far... just if the cars not there your screwed, but the same goes for the office is gone while your on lunch break...

Perplexing questions to go through!
 
GOOD, small sewing kit. small maicure kits to clean dirt and debris out of filthjy hands and feet-must keep them clean-seversl zippered freezer gallo0n bags for food or emergency water storage..a woman's 2 sided makeup mirror..small card and board games in a pouch for the little ones to keep them calm-also-very important -copies of id and insurance and health care papers and prescription meds if originals are lost. Good thread.
 
This is a great thread. I am making a master list of all the stuff listed here.

After reveiwing what is currently here, I see the need for everything to be as light weight as possible. Simply because there is a ton of stuff.

Everything must be evaluated by its performance/utility to weight ratio.
 
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