My Urban Survival Pack: improvement suggestions sought!

Originally posted by Moine
...snip...I was not in the towers. I've seen everything on TV, just like the entire world did (over and over, for about three months in a row). To me, it's pretty obvious that if everybody had been in shape, over there, it would have taken less time to evacuate victims. ...snip...[/B]
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David,
This still doesn't answer one important fact. Almost everyone (except the Rescue Personnel) who was below the crash floors got out!!! So, if every one got out, how would getting them out faster save lives?

The exceptions turn out to be things like people in wheelchairs, on crutches, and people who stayed to help them - plus some folks from the upper floors below the crash site who had been injured in the attack, and again, the folks who stayed to help.
 
"So, if every one got out, how would getting them out faster save lives?"

If you're only talking about what has ALREADY happened, then the answer is 'it wouldn't', but If you're planning for possible FUTURE problems, then being in shape is of obvious advantage.

If you're in school and you show up unprepared for a test and you score 100% anyway, then great, you got lucky. This does not mean that it's a good idea to ALWAYS show up unprepared.

-John
 
Originally posted by blastjv
"So, if every one got out, how would getting them out faster save lives?"

If you're only talking about what has ALREADY happened, then the answer is 'it wouldn't', ...snip..
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Oh, I'm NOT saying it's a bad idea, which is why I'm working on trying to get rid of a bunch of fat. I'm just saying that his comment that Fat folks killed people in the WTC by clogging the staircases is DEAD WRONG. He says "look at the video" - I say "Look at the list of people who died, and what floors they worked on/were visting" I can't find the reference right now, but the basic fact comes down to, if you were below the crash, you lived (with exceptions), if you were above, you died - with even fewer exceptions

Let's just put it this way - it was a bad day

Now, as for walking home during the blackout - yeah, I went the first 4.5 miles of my 14 mile trip, but I was getting tired. That gave me a bit more of a wake up. I would have made it, but it'd be a heck of a lot easier if I loose, say, 50 lbs
 
Originally posted by Charles Gallo
Almost everyone (except the Rescue Personnel) who was below the crash floors got out!!!
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Really?

That's not what we've heard over here... But I guess you guys are in a better position to know about all this. My mistake, then.

Nevertheless, my point still stands: if you're physically (and mentally) fit, you have better chances of saving your own butt, AND saving other people's if that's what you choose to do.

Cheers,

David
 
Originally posted by Moine
Really?

That's not what we've heard over here... But I guess you guys are in a better position to know about all this. My mistake, then.

Nevertheless, my point still stands: if you're physically (and mentally) fit, you have better chances of saving your own butt, AND saving other people's if that's what you choose to do.

Cheers,

David
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David,
Your point is well made, as I said in my first reply, and is my biggest weakness (Gad, I keep trying - I've taken off a few pound but...)

As for the fact that the losses were that divided, most folks don't realize it, even over here! A link to a graphic in USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/wtcvictims/frame.htm

and here it is with a floor by floor breakdown

http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/wtcvictims/frame.htm


If you click through, some numbers

South Tower - 599 died. All but 4 above the impact died, all but 4 below lived

North Tower - All above floor 92 died, 99% of those below lived

Basically, you fate was sealed the instant the planes hit

As you can see, there wasn't much of a crowd in the staircases at the end. If you ever get to see the Frech Brothers video, you'll notice that towards the end, you don't see people coming out of the stairs very often

Anyway, I'm going to drop the topic now. I'll probably have 1 or 2 nightmares tonight. I lost 2 friends that day (Not very close ones - I got lucky). :( Have some close friends who got out :)

Up until 1998, I worked across the street in what was then 1 BT Plaza - That is the building due south of the site that still has the netting on it with the flag. Used to go to the gym in the WTC every day (that was the time I lost a lot of weght before I put it back on)
 
... that was a bad day :^(

Sorry I brought this up.

It's hard to realize, when you're far away like I am, that such events are touching real people... To be honest, until right now I saw that whole WTC thing as the abstract symptom of geopolitical madness.

Regardless of such intellectual concerns, I am now forced to hear your pain.

IMHO, this pain is even greater since you guys are not used to be bombed, and to live in unsafe places. I mean... for many people in the world, WTC-like days are just every day life. It takes different forms, but it still is the same pattern: friends that die, parents outliving their child, and other atrocities alike.

This useless violence is just total nonsense :^( It's not even making anything go better.

I'm not a pacifist. Not at all. If someone comes to me for a fight, they'll get a real good one. But you know... I don't like to see people die...

Maybe that, with age, I'm becoming a humanist... LOL

Again, sorry I brought this up.

Best regards,

David
 
Originally posted by Moine
[B
IMHO, this pain is even greater since you guys are not used to be bombed, and to live in unsafe places. I mean... for many people in the world, WTC-like days are just every day life. It takes different forms, but it still is the same pattern: friends that die, parents outliving their child, and other atrocities alike.

David [/B][/QUOTE

Hi Guys!
I apologize in advance for being a bit off topic, but the world terrorism problem is fairly easily solved. Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia are absolutely crucial to the existence of these groups. These countries fund, train and equipment most of these scumbags. The majority of the terrorists are either connected to or at least are known by their respective countries leadership.
Here's my solution: Give each country 90 days to put an end to it voluntarily. Then vaporize them if they fail to comply. Either way, problem solved.
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Good idea about wearing light-weight hiking boots (I usually do at least once a week), but if we're looking at getting our cubical inhabitant out of the building and on the way home in the burbs we can "sacrafice" a few of the more technical equipment.

Wools great, but there are are good synthetics also. Thorlows, Bridgedales, etc.

Hiking boots are good, but a good pair of cross trainers will work and you might put them to use at lunch instead of the table muscles. The athletic shoes are much more stealthy also.

Documents. Gee carrying a wallet around I hadn't thought of that, but since you're going home by the most direct route available I'm not sure the list needs to be as extensive as a family document kit. Do copy your drivers liscence and CCW so that you can give those to authorities instead of originals.

First aid. Don't carry what you don't know how to use. That being said - get some training.

Bandana. I carry a bandana and a handkerchif. Blowing goop out of your nose is one of the things you might be surprised at how often you'll need to do. They're also good for covering your mouth/nose while getting to your bag.

Power bars. You'll be on foot or bike and burning calories so you'll need fuel for yourself.

Don't hesitate to loose the bag in the first few seconds of any disaster. Your first obligation is to get to immediate safety so that you live long enough to have other problems. Since you may not have the bag with you you don't want to be the idiot that ran back into the building to get your gear when it was quicker to hit the door. That being said, consider using a 2 part system where you have get out of the building stuff in the office and get out of town stuff outside the building and "just get" stuff in your pockets.
 
Originally posted by Moine
... that was a bad day :^(

Sorry I brought this up.

...snip...
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Don't worry about - a lot of lessons were learned that day. I just don't want folks to learn the wrong lessons.

I know it took me from casual preparedness to a LOT more serious, plus I started doing volunteer emergency work soon after
 
Originally posted by hso
Good idea about wearing light-weight hiking boots (I usually do at least once a week), but if we're looking at getting our cubical inhabitant out of the building and on the way home in the burbs we can "sacrafice" a few of the more technical equipment.
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I'm a cubical dweller, but I'm lucky, we're office casual. To me, that means a nice shirt, cargo pants, and either a pair of patrol shoes, patrol boots, or custom hikers. Plus backpacks are considered "normal" in NYC - of course, most are fairly small, and bright colored, but you see the occasional ALICE. Me? Eagle Becker Patrol Pack :D


...snip...
First aid. Don't carry what you don't know how to use. That being said - get some training.
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Yep. The basic first aid corse is simple - planning on taking the first responder course ASAP


...snip...
Power bars. You'll be on foot or bike and burning calories so you'll need fuel for yourself.
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Biggest mistake I made in the blackout was not raiding my stash in the pack. I was fealing REALLY tired when I finally thought of that Cliff Bar in the pack - made a BIG difference


...snip...

Since you may not have the bag with you you don't want to be the idiot that ran back into the building to get your gear when it was quicker to hit the door. That being said, consider using a 2 part system where you have get out of the building stuff in the office and get out of town stuff outside the building and "just get" stuff in your pockets.
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IF you have a place out of building to store stuff, this is a good idea. I figure I have to live with what's on my person. What's in the pack is gravy.
 
Read this thread and started doing some searches for different items on the forum. My things will need to fit in a 14x10x6 bag so obviously a lot of things will need to be taken out and compromises will need to be made. The SOS Survival Necklace contains a mini compass, signal mirror, id tag/razor, firestarter, whistle and wire saw. Here is a rough draft. Im still adding/subracting things from the list.

$500 - Gun
$200 - Cash
$200 - SureFire M3T
$110 - Benchmade 710HS
$100 - SOG SEAL
$90 - Benchmade 705BT
$65 - SureFire G2Z
$60 - Leatherman Wave
$55 - 16" ASP Baton
$50 - Hand Crank Radio
$40 - County Comm Black Bag
$30 - Spare Batteries, CR123A, AAA, AA, D
$20 - Leather Work Gloves
$20 - Fox Labs OC
$20 - Fisher Space Pen
$20 - SOS Survival Necklace
$20 - Arc D
$20 - Arc AAA
$17 - SureFire P61 LA
$15 - Gaffers/Duct/100MPH Tape
$15 - Surefire SC1
$10 - Power Bars
$6 - 14" Heavy Duty Cable Ties
$5 - Rite In The Rain Tactical Notebook
$5 - 100' 550 Paracord
$5 - Handkerchief
$5 - Map of Area
$3 - 2 Toilet Paper Rolls w/o cardboard insert
$3 - Industrial Strength Garbage Bags
$3 - Heavy Duty Zip Lock Bags
$3 - Misc. Candy
$3 - 3 Bic Lighters, Brightly Colored
$2 - Sharpie Marker
$2 - Bottled Water
$1 - Super Glue
$0 - Cotton Balls w/ Vaseline

Misc.
ID, Emergency Numbers, Medication


Sewing Kit/Safety Pins
First Aid Kit
Small Titanium Prybar
Walking Stick
Knife Sharpener
Polartec Fleece
NATO Matches
 
Mistakaroo,

Welcome to BFC from a fellow western Washingtonian.

The size of your 14x10x6 bag (840 cu in) has just about as much capacity as the 864 cu in capacity of the Camelbak Blowfish model hydration-pack (excluding the bladder pocket). Have you considered going with a hydro-pack to always have water with your kit? Whether you consider urban or wilderness survival scenarios, water is a major consideration for the continued physical and psychological well-being of prospective survivors. Of course, once the Seattle area winter-long rainy season hits here in another month or so, we'll have more than enough water until next summer's dry season. ;) :D

FWIW, there are a couple of somewhat cheaper ways to get hydro-paks at the Washington Arms Collectors (WAC) shows held at the Puyallup fairgrounds about once a month. Next show is Oct 4-5, 2003. WAC show schedule here: http://www.washingtonarmscollectors.org/shows.asp

One vendor there usually has surplus military Camelbak hydro-packs (sorry, don't know which civvie model it equates to) for $25 with new bladders in them. If you don't mind a bit of scuffing of the cordura fabric or having someone else's last name magic markered onto your pack, that's a pretty tough price to beat. Another vendor at those Puyallup shows carries some of the Blackhawk hydro-pak models new for a bit more money.

Here's a pic of the Blowfish. The specifications for it are available all over the web.

attachment.php
 
I use a camelbak trailblazer as an urban BOB. I don't keep a full bladder in it all the time though. I put a couple empty platypusses in it and use the bladder sleave for flat items. It's a great pack. There are some larger camelbaks too for those that need to carry more stuff. You dont' have to always carry the water but it's nice to have the option.
 
I, too, was thinking about that tac bag from Countycomm. But in all honesty, it just looks too...well...tactical!:o Reminds me of a range bag. If it came in a nice sheeple=friendly color, I might reconsider it.

Like many, I've opted to go with a (non-tactical looking) hydration pack. My USP is also a "get home bag" - I only live about 10 miles from work. I have identical packs in both my car and in my office. It contains all the items necessary to "get me home" safely in the event of some SHTF/disaster scenario. That being said, I try to travel light and fast, and have no need for 25 lbs. of gear.
 
Dear Ron,
I understand your needs and agree with your idea about a USP.
When I see your list I'm very imprest!But dear Ron in the case of a catastroph, breakdown or terorist attack you won't need a half of all this equipement.I've been involved in severals "city survival" situations, from Sarajevo to Mogadishu.In city survival you have to travel "light".In your situation, you have a wife and daughter so if I was you and a big clash arrived,the first I will do is to get to my family by any possible way,even by foot.
Before to consider a lot of equipement,if I was you,I will consider to get a lot of knowledge.I mean, professional knowledge about city survival.
Your knowledge will save you in a situation where you don't have enough equipement, but your equipement won't help you if you don't have enough knowledge.
My USP contain:
- AM/FM radio with extra batteries.
- cell phone (even if there is big chance that in crisis situation the lines will go down)
- Glock 19 loaded with 9 mm +p+ 115 gr from corbon and 3 extra mags.
- sure fire flash light with extra batteries.
- safetylight sticks (green light better)
- AFCK knife from benchmade + multitool from SOG or VICTORINOX.
- first aid pack.
- gas mask.
- 25 meter of paracord.
- poncho + poncho liner.
- MSR mini work (water filter)
- Camel bag with 2 liter bag.
- 2 MRE'S.
That is all what you need to keep you alive untill you can reach your family.The rest is superficial weight.You have to keep in mind that in most of the situation when a big colapse hapen, whatever the reason, it won't last and if it do you will not stay there!
When the thing happen,run away and protect your home!In your case a GPS with the coordinates of your home will be a good idea so you can faster get there.
Have an emergency plan with your wife in case of the things go down.
Hope you enjoyed!
Take care.
Olivier.
PS: there is few good books about city survival, try some of Ragnar benson from paladin press.Very good.]
 
Olivier:

Great post! Sounds like our philospohies are in tune with each other's. My goal is to get home as quickly and as safely as possible. No need for me to carry a full BOB...I'm not bugging out.
 
I agree with above two posts...

My downfall is I love wearing sandles... and any kind of walking distance in em would kill ya. May need to find some with straps on the back! :D
 
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